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Topic: Bi-tonal pieces  (Read 2212 times)

Offline porilo

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Bi-tonal pieces
on: May 01, 2005, 08:01:12 PM
Hi,

I'm interested in finding out whether there are many bi-tonal pieces, in the sense of right hand having one key signature and left hand having a differnt key signature.   I think there's such an impromptu by Gershwin, if I'm not mistaken, and also something by Tansman, but does anyone have any further information or know of any others?

Regards,

Gregory

Offline musik_man

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #1 on: May 01, 2005, 08:17:39 PM
Prokofiev's 3rd Sarcasm is bitonal.  When it starts the RH is in F# minor and the LH is in B-flat minor. 
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Offline thracozaag

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #2 on: May 01, 2005, 09:03:48 PM
Hi,

I'm interested in finding out whether there are many bi-tonal pieces, in the sense of right hand having one key signature and left hand having a differnt key signature.   I think there's such an impromptu by Gershwin, if I'm not mistaken, and also something by Tansman, but does anyone have any further information or know of any others?

Regards,

Gregory


 
  Bartok experimented with this, and I also regard two of the preludes Op. 74 of Scriabin as bi-tonal.

koji (STSD)
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline Etude

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #3 on: May 01, 2005, 09:10:34 PM
A while ago, I started writing a piano piece in the style of a classical sonata, but with the twist of having the right hand in C and the left hand in D-flat.  Never finished it, I might carry on with this now, thanks for reminding me.

Offline Derek

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #4 on: May 03, 2005, 03:26:25 AM
So does bi-tonal actually imply that the sheet music itself has two different key signatures on it?

I always supposed bitonal music is also music that tends to change key a lot, and as such using key signatures probably wouldn't make much sense anyway.

So there are compositions where composers will restrict each hand to a particular key throughout a piece? Odd.

Whenever I combine keys I often switch to other combinations shortly after.

Offline pianonut

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #5 on: May 03, 2005, 03:52:46 AM
i think poulenc experimented with this also, but i can't remember which pieces. i believe the pieces that i am now studying would fit this.  trois pieces.  in the hymn - it starts out in E-flat Major, but then in measures 4-7 you suddenly go through all the flats and end up moving into the key of E natural (with sharps) in measure 7.  So, the bitonality would be E-flat and E natural.  In the piece he also alternates between natural 'modes' and 'keys.' so one isn't fully convinced they are in a 'key' per se.
do you know why benches fall apart?  it is because they have lids with little tiny hinges so you can store music inside them.  hint:  buy a bench that does not hinge.  buy it for sturdiness.

Offline pianonut

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #6 on: May 03, 2005, 03:58:00 AM
the poulenc doesn't have the rh/lh difference that you are looking for. 

 The first and third pieces,  pastorale and toccata, are in the key signature of C, but add an f# so you think it's in G until basically all modes and keys are encountered.  really wild.
do you know why benches fall apart?  it is because they have lids with little tiny hinges so you can store music inside them.  hint:  buy a bench that does not hinge.  buy it for sturdiness.

Offline will

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #7 on: May 03, 2005, 07:39:15 AM
I'm pretty sure Bartok wrote a few simple pieces in Mikrokosmos with different key signatures in the bass and treble clef. From memory no. 104 is one of these.

Offline rhapsody7900

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #8 on: May 03, 2005, 09:52:42 AM


I was listening to a piano piece a couple weeks ago of a composer I was unfamiliar with, it had the weirdest (and most wonderful) harmonies that I had never heard before.  I immediately fell in love with this composer. 

Then, I closed a window in my web browser, and the music suddenly changed, the harmony was lost.  I realized that there was another piece playing off the website that was overlapping it.

By the time I realized the great potential in this, I tragically forgot which two pieces they were.  (Still sifting through browser history...)  :'(

Offline Phillip

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #9 on: May 03, 2005, 10:17:10 AM
One of Eugene Goosens' set of pieces 'Kaleidoscope' (early 20th century British) is a waltz with the right and left hand written in different keys (and with different key signatures on the staves).  It is really hard to read.

Phillip

Offline rob47

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #10 on: May 03, 2005, 05:18:09 PM
Didn't stravinsky invent this technique with the 'Trouchka chord? Fsharp major LH arpeggio with c major RH arpeggio?
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Offline thierry13

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #11 on: May 06, 2005, 08:42:55 PM
There is ligeti's desordre etude.

Offline Nightscape

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #12 on: May 06, 2005, 09:42:34 PM
Ravel also experimented with this..... the "Petrouchka" chord appears in Jeux d'eau (Two major chords a tritone apart) (it really should be called the Jeux d'eau chord since it did come first!).

Also parts of the left-hand piano concerto are bitonal.... and parts of the sonata for violin and cello.  There are probably others too.

Offline senecalakeguy

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #13 on: May 07, 2005, 11:05:14 AM
the Ginastera Danzas argentinas are a terrific set, with the first piece in the set using each hand in a different key.  GREAT piece!

Offline porilo

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Re: Bi-tonal pieces
Reply #14 on: May 07, 2005, 12:53:02 PM
Thanks to everyone for all the replies - I now have a lot of music to search for!!  It really is much appreciated.  As you may have gathered, I'm interesting in collecting unusual or novelty piano pieces, and also playing them hopefully!  I've quite a lot of music for left-hand alone, and oddly enough a few pieces for right-hand alone, so I thought for a change I'd try to find some music which uses different keys between the hands.   :)

Gregory

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