Sizing a piano for the room . . .

[Glyptodont]

We have a lot of discussion of sizes of pianos on this board, but it is also important to take account of the space in which the piano is placed. 

Our home has a modest-sized living room about 24 x 12 feet.   We have a Howard 5'8" grand.  With the lid on the high stick, this piano really fills the room with sound.  It is just about all the piano the room can handle.  In fact, when playing a big piece with lots of tetrachords and forte, the piano fills the whole house with sound. 

In an apartment or a parlor, it may not be necessary to get an especially big piano.  In other words, the acoustics of the room factor into it, and a small room will magnify the sound. 

When I take my lesson, the teacher's studio is a fairly small one -- about like an oversized office.  One problem we do NOT have is the volume we get out of the Yamaha console.  Simply because the room is so small.  It is all you want. 

I realize there are other reasons for avoiding small pianos -- such as tinny sound quality or tuning instability.  But the shopper needs to factor the planned space being set aside for this piano into the purchase. 

A lot of small but expensive pianos are being sold today because buyers do not lack money so much as they lack space.  I know that when they delivered our 5'8" grand, we thought an aircraft carrier had docked in our living room.  It took a while to get used to the size of the thing.

So there's a ready market for baby grands in the 4'10" to 5'2" range.  I recently saw a beautiful Yamaha in that size range with the disklavier player mechanism built in, priced at about $23,000.  That's a lot of money. Someone must buy pianos of this size or the dealer wouldn't stock them.

Comments welcome.

[jr11]

One idea I have seen is to make (or ask your dealer for) a cloth template of the piano you are interested in. Simple lay an old sheet or other cloth over the closed grand and trace the outline of the edges with chalk onto the cloth. You can use the same cloth for smaller grands as well. Then take the cloth home, and lay it on the floor, folding it in to the extremities of the chalk outline. It is not quite the same as having the actual piano in your home, but you can at least get an idea of how much floor space it will take up.

[Axtremus]

1. Large pianos can be played very softly. Volume per se is not an issue.

2. It's not only about "how much sound," but also "what kind of sound" you get. Larger pianos usually give stronger bass with stronger fundamental frequencies. Whether you like that kind of sound is another matter.

3. Sound aside, there is also the matter of "touch." A small upright may be able to fill a small room with sound, but it will not provide the touch of a grand piano.

4. Treatment in the room is also a big factor -- hardwood floor versus carpet, barewall versus one with lots of drapes and curtains and fabric wall-hangings, empty room versus one filled with upholstered furniture, high ceiling versus low ceiling, etc. Hard surfaces usually reflect more higher frequencies, soft surfaces absorbs them. Different material absorbed different frequencies. All these can make a difference.

So while one can perfectly well argue that a small room can be "filled with sound" using a small piano, that does not mean it cannot handle a much larger piano (assuming it will physically fit), and get filled with a different kind of sound. Which kind of sound you like better is a matter of taste and preference.

And you are right, there are people who buy small pianos, lots of them too. Actually, I think 4'-ish, 5'-ish baby grands must out-sell the larger grands in unit count by a wide margin since I usually see more "baby grands" stocked in piano stores than large grands (and more uprights than grands too). Heck, even hotels with gigantic ballrooms and lobbies put in those big rooms/lobbies baby grands fitted with player systems -- though I think the hotels do this for "lower cost" rather than going for "better sound."

[strider]

This interesting disscussion will affect me shortly.  I am in the process of building a house and my first major purchase after nearly dropping dead at my mortgage costs will be a grand piano.  It will be housed in a room that will be filled with glass with the dimensions of 18 by 25.

I love bass and low midrange sounds of a large piano.... don't care much for the high frequencies as I've damaged my hearing by playing to close to the cymbal of the drummer.

Any thoughts of piano types and things to watch for would be appreciated.  I am looking at Schimmel, Kawai, Yamaha, --- not familiar with Petrof and some others I've seen mentioned here. 

I am located in Northeastern Wisconsin and delivery will be an issue as well.

Any thoughts?    I thank you.

[Glyptodont]

Addressing this to strider--

I also have poor hearing above 3000 cycles, so I can relate to what you say.

As I understand it, very small grands of sizes like 4'10" and 5'2" are baby grands.  From around 5'6" to 6'0" are sometimes referred to as mid-sized grands. 

It is hard to generalize too broadly.  If space and money are not an object, I would imagine that a mid-sized grand would be nice for you.   

Given that you have some means, apparently, you might want to skirt the "economy" models.  And also skirt the premium names that come in at staggering prices.

Yamaha and Kawai are a good mid-point of quality and cost.    I also live in Wisconsin, but not your part.

Let us know where you finally come out.  Congrats on the lovely new home.

[hgiles]

You should also consider Petrofs and the Walter 190...   

 

[jbmajor]

One idea I have seen is to make (or ask your dealer for) a cloth template of the piano you are interested in. Simple lay an old sheet or other cloth over the closed grand and trace the outline of the edges with chalk onto the cloth. You can use the same cloth for smaller grands as well. Then take the cloth home, and lay it on the floor, folding it in to the extremities of the chalk outline. It is not quite the same as having the actual piano in your home, but you can at least get an idea of how much floor space it will take up.

Or you could just take a tape measure and: length x width.   

[texas911]

When I was shopping, the different sizes really don't make that much of a difference physically. For example a 5'10 L vs a 6'2 A Steinway isn't that different footprint wise. Is it? Even the smaller S and M are the same width as the A. I figure, whats another 6 inches in lenth, its not much more space wise but big sound wise. Plus we planned for the future, how ofter do you buy a grand piano?

[Glyptodont]

You are right-- the footprint is not going to be greatly different.

Just from my limited perspective, the two pianos you mention -- a 5'10" and a 6'2" -- are very good sized pianos for a home. 

The 6'2" is a size that might even be adequate for recitals in a suitable salon.

Somewhere in this discussion, sound quality of the piano has to enter, also.  Regardless of the size, some pianos will sound better to the buyer's ear.  This will not always be directly related to price. 

But as Larry Fine cautions in his book, many pianos in showrooms are not well tuned, and a large sales room will not produce acoustics very much like a living room.  So playing a few bars in a showroom is not a very objective measure of the sound.

Good luck--  if you have the $$$ for either of the Steinways, you are fortunate.