Instructions - please read! (OLD VERSION)

[nilsjohan]

On this board you can upload your own recordings to get comments from other members.

Instructions:

1. Start a new topic for every new file.
2. Put the composer name and the title in the subject and comments/questions in the message body.
3. Click ""Additional options..." and locate the file on your computer.
4. When clicking the "Post" button the upload starts. Please be patient since it usually takes several minutes to upload a file.

• Files must be in mp3 format and the maximum file size is 12 Mb.
• Uploading files that are protected by copyright is strictly prohibited. This usually includes any recordings of pieces by composers that are still alive or died after 1923.

[/b]

[BoliverAllmon]

what about midi compositions?

[fred smalls]

WOW thanks so much for all your recent work on the pf!!! these are great ideas!!!!!! (chat, audition, polls) WOW

[galonia]

This is great Nils - thanks!!!

Should this topic be made a sticky so it's always at the top of the board?

Also, what if I have a multi-movement work with a file for each movement?  Do they still need to be in separate topics each?  Or can subsequent movements be attached in replies to the original topic (I notice a maximum of only 2 files can be attached to any post, so obviously we can't attach 3 separate files to one post, each file containing the movement of a 3-movement sonata).

I don't want to break any rules using all the wonderful new features!

[nilsjohan]

what about midi compositions?

Well, apart from the fact that I personally don't like like MIDI used in this way it could be possible.
Why not record the pieces on a real piano? It is so much more interesting to listen to.

Also, what if I have a multi-movement work with a file for each movement? Do they still need to be in separate topics each? Or can subsequent movements be attached in replies to the original topic (I notice a maximum of only 2 files can be attached to any post, so obviously we can't attach 3 separate files to one post, each file containing the movement of a 3-movement sonata).

OK, three files are now allowed per post but the total maximum per post is still 12 Mb. Please compress the mp3:s as much as possible if you have long files.

[BoliverAllmon]

Well, apart from the fact that I personally don't like like MIDI used in this way it could be possible.
Why not record the pieces on a real piano? It is so much more interesting to listen to.

OK, three files are now allowed per post but the total maximum per post is still 12 Mb. Please compress the mp3:s as much as possible if you have long files.

some of my pieces are for piano and other instruments and I can't play all the instruments. I agree though on just playing the pieces.

[nilsjohan]

I got your point. As an administrator I should actually prefer MIDI because of the huge difference in file size (=server load) but as I am totally fed up with those crappy, low quality, unmusical MIDI recordings that you can find everywhere on the Internet I want to avoid this format here as far as possible - more like a statement than anything else.

This may appear stupid at first, but why not mix down your MIDI arrangement to an audio file and make it into mp3?
Actually, this way you get complete control over instrument sounds, balance, effects etc. and most likely your synths (software or hardware) are far better than the average GM soundcard. The only dissadvantage is the file size but aren't your music worth it? (This issue is also decreasing in importance for every day as network and server capacities continue to increase.)

Convinced?

[BoliverAllmon]

I got your point. As an administrator I should actually prefer MIDI because of the huge difference in file size (=server load) but as I am totally fed up with those crappy, low quality, unmusical MIDI recordings that you can find everywhere on the Internet I want to avoid this format here as far as possible - more like a statement than anything else.

This may appear stupid at first, but why not mix down your MIDI arrangement to an audio file and make it into mp3?
Actually, this way you get complete control over instrument sounds, balance, effects etc. and most likely your synths (software or hardware) are far better than the average GM soundcard. The only dissadvantage is the file size but aren't your music worth it? (This issue is also decreasing in importance for every day as network and server capacities continue to increase.)

Convinced?

convinced? I dunno. I have no clue what you just talked about. I am lucky enough to figure out how to record myself and put it up here.

[nilsjohan]

Oh, I am sorry!
I just assumed you were already into the MIDI recording/composing thing since you asked for uploading your MIDI:s. Well, if/when you can manage to get your compositions recorded as a MIDI file, then making it into an mp3 should be the easy part.

[BoliverAllmon]

Oh, I am sorry!
I just assumed you were already into the MIDI recording/composing thing since you asked for uploading your MIDI:s. Well, if/when you can manage to get your compositions recorded as a MIDI file, then making it into an mp3 should be the easy part.

I can get it into midi through sibelius, now what?

[Dazzer]

mmmmmm... videos?
--------------------------------------
bolliver, you have the midi? you should be able to just upload it. Goto Addictional Options, then there'll be an "attach" area. just browse to where you midi is and upload it. and voila. hopefully.

[allthumbs]

Greetings

Great idea Nilsjohan! I was wondering if pdf's and jpegs files could be uploaded for sharing?

Cheers

[nilsjohan]

I can get it into midi through sibelius, now what?

If you have Sibelius 3 you can save the file as an mp3 (using the included Kontakt Player). If you do not have this version you can use an audio recording program (Cubase, WaveLab etc) and catch the sound played back by Sibelius and then save it as mp3.

Great idea Nilsjohan! I was wondering if pdf's and jpegs files could be uploaded for sharing?

No. The allowed use of image attachments is to include a part of the score for reference when discussing a piece/performance here in the audition room.

[rafant]

Congratulations for inaugurating this board, which I foresee it will become most popular in this dearest forum. I'm very curious for hearing the musical efforts of so much esteemed forists.

A suggestion: Would you require from every contributor that he/she always give us details about the devices used during the recording: Piano, mics, recorder and software?

Thanks in advance and regards.

[Nightscape]

One tip for everyone.....

Remember to compress your files as Nilsjohan says.  In other words, there is no need to save your mp3 as a 128 kb file.  For our purposes, I would say 64 kb files are the maximum size, and you probably can compress them further (experimenting with this as we speak) without noticable quality difference.

[nilsjohan]

A suggestion: Would you require from every contributor that he/she always give us details about the devices used during the recording: Piano, mics, recorder and software?

Yes, good idea! Although it might not be a requirement it can be a recommendation to include these details.
I will add it to the first instructions post.

Remember to compress your files as Nilsjohan says...

That is another good advice.
I think the optimal compression depends quite a lot on the quality of the actual recording. A top quality recording can sound good using high compression while a low quality recording will sound terrible if using the same bitrate.  Use your ears and please care about the modem users (=aim for smallest possible file size).

Thanks for your input!

[liszt1022]

Blast! My Philip Glass piece is 14 mb. Can I post a link to it?

[nilsjohan]

If it is a piece by Philip Glass I assume you will have a copyright problem (if you do not have his permission to post the recording).

[liszt1022]

If it is a piece by Philip Glass I assume you will have a copyright problem (if you do not have his permission to post the recording).

Oh yeah, forget I said that then.

I'll have to find some Chopin I've done then.

[SDL]

Nils - I have a stage piano P250 not a real piano!  I cant afford a house big enough to get a grand piano where I can branch off in a large room in the house where I dont disturb the neighbours.  What would be best to do in terms of quality.  My computer is in a different room!  Record onto mini-disc/mp3?

[Dazzer]

mmmmmm... videos?
--------------------------------------
bolliver, you have the midi? you should be able to just upload it. Goto Addictional Options, then there'll be an "attach" area. just browse to where you midi is and upload it. and voila. hopefully.

nils did you read my post on videos? - innocent look -

[ahmedito]

I think theres a problem posting mp3s since the change in the site.

[nilsjohan]

I will look into this.
Thanks for the notice!

[nilsjohan]

Now it works fine again!

[ahmedito]

Nils... I still cant. I press additional options but nothing comes up... maybe Im doing something wrong?

[nilsjohan]

You are doing nothing wrong, but I did! 
It is corrected and should work now.

[JPRitchie]

Hi Nils,
     I'm wondering if .wma files can be uploaded instead of only .mp3. I've gotten smaller sizes and good fidelity with the former.

Regards,
Jim Ritchie

[nilsjohan]

There are many formats that are far better than mp3, like wma as you mention and not least Ogg Vorbis. The only, but very important problem is that not everyone can listen to those file format.

[mikeyg]

[li]Uploading files that are protected by copyright is strictly prohibited. This usually includes any recordings of pieces by composers that are still alive or died after 1923.[/li][/list][/b]

I'm confused about this.  Does this mean we can't post a piece of us playing Rachmaninov, or you can't post recordings of other people?

[JPRitchie]

Hi Nils,

    Yes, of course, you are right. I keep .wma files on my web-site and, by default, they start the media player on WINDOWS.

    Although not a lawyer, perhaps I can provide some useful information about U.S. copyrights specific for this audition room, where you are posting personal recordings only and not images or other files of any kind. (I made a commercial CD and researched copyrights.) In this case, there are two seperate copyrights to consider: 1)that on the sound recording and 2)that on the composition. In order not to infringe a copyright, you need to determine the copyrights in BOTH the sound recording AND the composition.

    The easy, simple case is if you make a)a recording of your performance, b)in your own home, c)with equipment you own, d)not related to your employment, a contract, or financial consideration, and e)from a score published before 1923. If you make such a recording, then you own the copyright in the recording. The composition is in the public domain, so can be copied freely. Just make sure that the score shows a copyright or publication date before 1923.

    Another easy case is similar to the above, the sole difference being that instead of  (e), you are making a recording of your original composition. If the composition is truly original and truly yours - you own the copyright in it. The thing to watch out for here is that you don't mistakenly place your composition in the public domain by putting it on the internet - usually a simple copyright mark and statement accompanying it would suffice. Consult a lawyer to find out about this.

        Anything else needs careful consideration. Also, just because a practice appears common doesn't mean it conforms to the letter of copyright law - it may just not rise to the level where the holder wishes to enforce it or has knowledge of the infringement. But, if at some point in the future it does rise to that level, you can be held liable for all infringements - and, in some cases, there can be criminal penalties.

    If you are employed in the music business or do something related to music and get paid for it, that can be a special problem. Copyrights of employers can extend beyond work created strictly on the job to works created in the general area of the employer. And contracts can vary.
 
    It's also possible a copyright may exist in a post-1922 arrangement of a piece composed pre-1923. So if you play very close to a score published since 1923, or even very close to a unique part of that arrangement, and offer a recording to the public, royalties for the composition copyright may be required, which incidentally are easily paid through the Harry Fox or similar agency.

     There is also what is known as "fair use" for education and research. So, if you perform a copyrighted work at school as part of a course, no royalties are due for the performance. But, this is an internet  forum, and membership requires only registration and it is not organized as a school. Since most of the pertinent copyright law was written before the internet became widespread, I am not qualified to say that "fair use" would apply for uploads here and suggest that it is hazardous to assume that it does.

    Perhaps the above seems overly restrictive, but given the ease and speed at which files can be exchanged between computers all over the world, the technology largely has outpaced realization of its capabilities. The possible damages in lost sales might surprise even the inadvertent individual infringer or be a figment of the large corporate holder's imagination. Whatever the case, it's a hassle to be involved in infrigements.

    If you want to protect the Piano Forum and its users, you could probably pay a minimal sum to a lawyer to look at the simple cases outlined above to make sure I've got it just right - and that my information is up to date.

Regards,
Jim Ritchie

[ted]

A most sobering post Jim. Thank you. The copyrights on the music of the three rags I posted are all prior to 1907 so those should be well and truly safe. I record everything with my own piano in my own lounge using my own equipment. As to the other way around, the idea of somebody using my music to set the world on fire financially seems very remote. Sillier things have happened, I suppose. I remember once asking my solicitor about the large heap of my scores, none of which have ever been formally published. He just advised me to put the date and a copyright mark on them. How on earth this would stop anybody using them is beyond me but I did it anyway.

Were I to record pieces by any of my contemporaries I would obtain written permission from them anyway, aside from copyright considerations, because I would hate to upload renditions they didn't like.

[JPRitchie]

Ted, compositions can be particularly difficult to protect. Putting a copyright on your ms. doesn't make it any tougher for someone unscrupulous to use; instead, it informs the conscientious and creates a dated record that may help enforce the copyright at a latter date.  One additional protection for an independent composer, but more work, would be to make a MIDI performance, put it on CD, and sell it through cdbaby.com .  CDBaby takes 5 CD's and $35 initially, then a cut of any sales. It generates a dated record of your work, and gives it exposure. You can also sell CD's through amazon and other places. I'm not saying this is or is not necessarily a financially prudent thing to do, just that the option exists.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, so please don't rely exclusively on anything I've said. But, one could use this information to prepare for a legal consultation.

Regards,
Jim

[mikeyg]

That is ridiculous.

[JPRitchie]

mikeyg, Maybe a discussion is warranted to determine exactly what's considered ridiculous. Rather than take up space in "instructions", perhaps a thread would be a better place. Otherwise, in the paragraph beginning "Anything else", substitute the word "ridiculous" for "common".
Regrds,
-Jim

[pokeythepenguin]

Also I know this is harsh and stuff but many compositions written before 1923 may also be copyrighted, as the composer may have gone back and renewed the copyrights, so be careful of that too.

[JPRitchie]

****NOTE: Discussion pertinent to U.S. only.
****Please see simple suggestion at end of this post.
**** General copyright info.: www.copyright.gov

I don't think that's pertinent for compositions published after 1922. Before the 1976 law copyrights could be renewed for a second term. But, all second terms for works published before 1923 have expired. To quote Circular 15t of the U.S. Copyright Office"

"A work published before January 1, 1964, and originally
copyrighted within the past 75 years may still be protected
by copyright if a valid renewal registration was
made during the 28th year of the first term of the copyright.
If renewed and if still valid under the other provisions
of the law, the copyright will now expire 95 years
from the end of the year in which it was first secured.
Works published before January 1, 1923, have fallen
into the public domain, but works published after that date
could still be protected by copyright if the copyright was
renewed by registration or automatically by law under
Public Law 102-307."

Also:
"Works in the public domain cannot be protected by
copyright. The 1976 Act, the 1992 amendment, and the
1998 amendment do not provide a procedure for restoring
protection for works in which copyright has been lost
for any reason."

The latter quote means that once something is in the public domain it cannot thereafter be protected by copyright. But, one thing to watch out for here is a re-arrangement of something in the public domain. Also, you still have to be worried about regular contract law that was agreed to with the purchase price of the music. Look on the title and leading pages in any music score for copyright notices or other restrictive statements.

Here is a pertinent section from the law about "fair use":
§ 107 · Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair useł⁸
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted
work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or
by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment,
news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use),
scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining
whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors
to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a
commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted
work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted
work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if
such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

So, there is some provision in law for copying for the purpose of criticism and comment. It is not a copyright infringement for a book reviewer to quote, say, a paragraph from someone else's novel. The portion is a relatively small fraction of the whole work and the quoted material doesn't replace the novel. Note that the considerations include how much of the work is copied and the effect of the copied material (not the criticism, which is protected by the First Amendment and restrained by libel statues) on the potential market. But, if you are using a significant portion of a work that starts to replace the work itself -  that can cause harm to the publisher though lost sales.

What I do with when putting sound recordings of my own on the internet  is to use only short samples, 1-1.5 min. but never more than 20-40% of a work. It usually provides just enough material for evaluation of a ciritcal part.

Your original composition with a catch line, however, might be a problem. Someone else hears it, it influences their next composition, they finish and publish it before you do yours and, you - the original - might now need to prove up your claim.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but you can use the above info. to prepare for a session with a copyright lawyer.
It's also worth mentioning that you can always try to contact a publisher and ask them if they would have an objection to such and such a use.
Regards,
Jim

[nilsjohan]

Thanks Jim for your interesting postings!

Regarding the problem to publish copyright protected compositions here in the Audition room I do not think "fair use" can be applicable but I am currently looking into other possibilities.

Johan 

[JPRitchie]

Hi Nils,

    If you consider alllowing the posting of short samples via "fair use", here are some things that have come up in related discussions elsewhere:

1. Short samples are posted for education, comment and criticism - all explicitly mentioned in the law as "fair use" of copyrighted material.

2. Short samples do not substitute for the copyrighted material - the recording does not
take the place of copyrighted sheet music or a full recording - and consequently has little
economic value.

3. Short samples of copyrighted recordings and compositions are frequently used as part of on-line advertisements. So long as the source material is accurately credited, there's no chance of fraud or misrepresentation.

4. No fee is paid or collected in association with the posting of short samples.

Regards,
Jim
P.S. Specific information about copyrights, performer, etc. can be embedded in .wma files
and is displayed upon playback by Media Player in WINDOWS.
jpr