liszt trandenscendal etudes

[Helen]

hi

ive heard a fair bit about liszts trandenscendal technique/etudes so i was wondering

1. what exactly does trandenscendal mean and what is a trandenscendal technique?

2. who did liszt learn it from?

thx in advance

[amee]

Liszt formed the basics of his transcendental technique during his study with Czerny.  Later he dedicated the whole set of his transcendental studies to him.

[Sketchee]

"Transcendental" means superior or surpassing.  The full title is "Etudes d'exécution transcendante d'après Paganini", inspired by the furious violin playing of Paganini.  Liszt was probably the Paganini of piano.

[xenia]

Hi Helen!

You're wrong,it's TRANSCENDENTAL,not trandenscendal.I thaught,if you know the right word,you can look for it in dictionary and than understand what it realy means!
Since you are interesting in those etudes I can recommend you to hear performance of KEMAL GEKIC.His playing is SO GOOD!He's the best for Liszt!

xenia

[ayahav]

actually, in english we say " transcendal " xenia, and that's the way you will find it in the dictionary... the only other english word that stems from transcendence is 'transcendent'. These words both mean outside of the normal boundaries....

[frederic]

Haha! Thats very funny, very funny indeed! Trandenscendal? Yeah, Transcendental means superior and over the top sort of. It's not a special technique which only Liszt possessed. Like, i can say Horowitz's or Richter's technique is transcendental.

[avetma]

Haha! Thats very funny, very funny indeed! Trandenscendal? Yeah, Transcendental means superior and over the top sort of. It's not a special technique which only Liszt possessed. Like, i can say Horowitz's or Richter's technique is transcendental.

I dont think that Horowitz's technique is trancedental at all! He even admit that he couldn't play these etudes because he has no technique for it.

The best performer of liszt's "Etudes d'execution transcendante' is KEMAL GEKIC. Some of his CD's you can find here: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/classical-artist-search/Kemal%20Gekic/103-0951964-8474258

His recording has changed my perception of music. It is bold, imaginative,beautiful and crazy!
I have other recordings including Cziffra's. Gekic is the best without a doubt. Especially Chasse-Neige, Mazeppa, Molto Vivace, Wilde Jagd and Feux Follets. Impressive.

[mephisto]

"Transcendental" means superior or surpassing.  The full title is "Etudes d'exécution transcendante d'après Paganini", inspired by the furious violin playing of Paganini.  Liszt was probably the Paganini of piano.

Wrong.

When Liszt was 16 or so he wrote 12 exercises for piano. They are very simmilar to Czerny`s etudes.

In 1838 he wrote 12 new etudes called 12 grande etudes. These etudes are extremely difficult. No one plays them any more becasue they don`t sound very good and are extremely difficult. Most of them are based on the 12 exercises written earlier.

In 1851 Liszt wrote 12 new etudes that are known as the Transcendental etudes. They are quite a lot easier than the grande etudes(but still very difficult) and they do also sound much better. And they are the etudes people play to day.

Liszt did also write 6 transcendental etudes after paganini also from 1838(at least very close to this year). They are based upon Paganini`s capricies and one of his violin concertos. In the earli 1850`she rewrote them so that they become easier and he tha  called them transcendental etudes de Paganini. Many people do actually think that the earlier are better.

My prefered recording of the transcendental etudes: Claudio Arrau on sony.

-The Mephisto

[thalbergmad]

I very much agree with Mephisto here.

The 1838 version of the Pag etudes seem to be neglected by pianists. I prefer them myself, especially La Campanella.

The earlier version of the Transcendental Etudes are simply more difficult, the 1851 version being musically superior.

[prometheus]

I have heard different things.

Some argue it did mean 'superior' but I think these people do this to discredit Liszt by making him appear arrogant.

I have also heard Liszt tried to employ new ways of playing piano, transcending normal piano technique.

I also heard a theory that transcendental piano technique is technique creating a musical effect that is only possible if you play it fast. You can't play it slow. You have to 'execute' them 'transcandentally'. If played slow the music becomes meaningless.

I also agree with Mephisto. Both on the fact that there are three version, which is a historical fact anyway. They started as exercizes influenced by Czerny. They became more musical because of Chopin, and technically difficult because of Paganini.

Arrau plays the '51 ones best. There are recordings of the older versions. Leslie Howard for example.

[stevie]

In 1838 he wrote 12 new etudes called 12 grande etudes. These etudes are extremely difficult. No one plays them any more becasue they don`t sound very good and are extremely difficult.

WRONG

they sound awesome, they are amazing pieces of music in their own right and are very worth playing.

the only way they wont sound good is if your technique is deficient, and that you are simply too slow.

textures are generally thicker,and figurations are geenrally more complicated in these earlier versions, liszt streamlined them down in the later versions and really made tthem into different pieces of music.

on a whole, yes , the later versions are musically superior, but Grande tudes are awesome pieces in and of themselves and are among the most important compositions in the history of piano music, technically.

there are also many really cool ideas  completely absent from the later versions, especially the grindingly furious middle section and insanely furious pre-coda in the 10th etude.

[mephisto]

WRONG

they sound awesome, they are amazing pieces of music in their own right and are very worth playing.

the only way they wont sound good is if your technique is deficient, and that you are simply too slow.

textures are generally thicker,and figurations are geenrally more complicated in these earlier versions, liszt streamlined them down in the later versions and really made tthem into different pieces of music.

on a whole, yes , the later versions are musically superior, but Grande tudes are awesome pieces in and of themselves and are among the most important compositions in the history of piano music, technically.

there are also many really cool ideas  completely absent from the later versions, especially the grindingly furious middle section and insanely furious pre-coda in the 10th etude.

Well if something sounds good or not is of course perfectly up to the person who listens. So I am defintly not wrong and if you think they sound good than I may not be right either.

But Alan Walker the author of the defintive Liszt biogrphy sais that he(Alan Walker) and Liszt felt the same thing. That the earlier aren`t interseting at all. I habe heard them to and I don`t like them much either.

-The Mephisto

[stevie]

thats completely ridiculous.

not interesting?!!?!

they REVOLUTIONISED PIANO TECHNIQUE

the difficulties found in them were just about the most complex difficulties ever concieved at that time, complexities and inginuity of piano-writing.

their only rival was in alkan's op76 at their time of writing.

really, these pieces can be called bad music or whatever, but dont you dare say they arent interesting, they are REVOLUTIONARY.

[mephisto]

Oki.

They aren`t interesting to listen to.

-The Mephisto