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Topic: Stupid Question About The Score :/  (Read 1281 times)

Offline Ruro

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Stupid Question About The Score :/
on: May 09, 2005, 04:56:18 PM
Hey, sorry to torment you with this utterly stupid question, it's not an easy thing to phrase in the search.
Basicaly, I tried Piano lessons, and they were okie... but I didn't enjoy the work load she gave me, and I do have a lot of college assignments. And because I only went twice, I don't know nothing :/ I don't want you to teach me, that's just scabby and I won't accept it, but if you could direct me to the answers on the net or something, it would be grateful! Just thought I would put that in for no mis-understandings... Oh, and atm I sorta play for fun rather the to become Pro... so I don't think lessons are a good thing anyway :/

I can play Fur Elise (short version) and Petit Reunion, but on them scores there ain't no Sharp signs or Flat signs at the beginning. BUT in "Chopin - Nocturne Op.9 No.2 In E Flat Major", it's got darn Flat things at the start, which seems to remove most the indications of flats on the score, perhaps make life easier? :/
From what I have read, there is a system of working hundreds of these things out, and I kinda hoped someone might enlighten me, or send me a link ^_^ If this turns into quadratics though I think I'll go insane :/
Although it sounds like in that case, you have to decode the song on the fly to play it by applying the flats appropriately, sounds pretty difficult >_< My keyboard demonstrates the keys required to be pressed on a screen, so I'm cheating atm, and I don't like to cheat!

Thanks for your time people!

EDIT: Omg, I just read about Aolean, Dorian and Tonality or something, should I give up now? :D I Quote Misato from EoE: "Giving up half way is worse then never trying at all" - Sounds risky for me to continue on the path of knowledge :/

Offline abell88

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Re: Stupid Question About The Score :/
Reply #1 on: May 09, 2005, 05:38:13 PM
The flats at the beginning are called the key signature, and they indicate that those particular notes are played flat throughout the whole score. I believe key signatures  were originated to make lives easier for the composer (who wants to write out 500 flats?), and although they take a little getting used to, they will ultimately make it easier for you. In the meantime, you might want to highlight them.

By the way, as you play more you will find that they always (except in some very modern music) occur in the same order:  B E A D G C F for flats and F C G D A E B for sharps. If you learn the order of first two or three sharps or flats, you will probably find it easier to remember to play them.  Don't fret too much about whether you're in Aeolian mode or whatever...the most important thing at this stage is to play what's there.

Best wishes!

Offline TheHammer

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Re: Stupid Question About The Score :/
Reply #2 on: May 09, 2005, 05:39:05 PM
Okay for your accidental problem try this:

https://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory9.htm

The whole site contains pretty much about music theory.
As well as this one:

https://cnx.rice.edu/content/col10208/latest/

and these:
https://www.musictheory.net/
https://www.teoria.com/
https://www.emusictheory.com/  ;)

Some books!
https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,6498.msg64035.html#msg64035

 :)

so I don't think lessons are a good thing anyway :/

Well, of course it is a possibility to self-teach, but there are several disadvantages: One you are just experiencing: you have noone to talk about (basic) problems. Of course you can use this forum, ask questions and make searches. But a teacher is still something special: he can explain, show, direct, whereas we can only give a bit of our knowledge. Second thing is technique: if you are a passionate player, you will certainly practice much. But if you have developped bad habits, wrong technique etc. much practice will most probably lead to INJURIES. Make a search on them in PF, you will find many threads... no good thing. Anyway. A teacher can point out such habits INSTANTLY, one word and you know them and you can start working on them (or even better, you can prevent them from coming into existence).
Teacher for beginner = crucial (and I think you should not be discouraged by some homework a teacher is giving you. Either tell her that it is too much, or just DO IT! ;D)

And you must not give up because of all the modes and theory things. First of all, as a beginner you should think about actually playing, and increasing your theory knowledge just gradually. You must not know all this from today to tomorrow. Think more in terms of one to three years (that would be quite fast for a complete self-learner). Also, theory is not about knowing, but about understanding (in the end, the latter means the same as the first, but not the other way round!).

P.S. You better re-think on playing the op.9/2 nocturne. It is by no means easy for a beginner and you would not be able to play it decently anyway w/o a teacher (as a beginner). It is possible, however, but hard.

Best luck,

Offline Ruro

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Re: Stupid Question About The Score :/
Reply #3 on: May 09, 2005, 06:22:24 PM
Well, Thankyou so much! ^_^ I just got a few questions brought from what was written by yurs lot, but I will investigate your sources, read and bookmark them :)
In ways I hate leaving these thanks short, seems scabby :/ Like everything seems to today!? Anyway... aye.. I owe you guys, and possibly girls one ^_^

As for not doing the nocturne... I am working with my keyboard pieces available, which the keyboard itself can show me and help me with. There are easier pieces on it, but this one really takes my fancy ^_^ I spent ages on frigign Petit Reunion just trying to learnt to scale up and down with 2 fingers :/ I will conquer this one to! I gotta say, memorizing these chords is a fridge, but I guess learning these chord systems will aid me!

  -  -  -  -  -  - 

EDIT: Removing my question which I added, I'm just gonna ramble through these darn scales till I get it right instead :/

EDIT: OMG, They dedicated in theory several paragraphs and diagrams just to explain how to create Major Scales!? Farkin hell, you watch me right now, and beat me up if I'm wrong please, but I'm gonna explain it in a friggin paragraph with no diagrams, and anyone should understand it, and not have to decode what they are saying for 30 minutes :/

To work out the Major Scales on a keyboard, simply choose a white note, not a black one. Then using this method: Tone - Tone - SemiTone - Tone - Tone - Tone - SemiTone, you can work them all out! Now, simply put, here's the meanings:
Tone = Move along the keyboard 2 keys (this includes both white and black keys)
Semitone = Move along the keyboard 1 key (this includes both white and black keys)
When using this, and following the method said above, you can write down all the keys you land on, THIS equals the ? Major Scale (? being the key you started on).

Now... yeah, you got yur friggin Scales :/ Honestly, I'm not getting at anyone here, but why can't they just write this!? And yeah, fine a diagram, perhaps an example, but that was insane trying to work out something as simple as this in the midst of all there yakkin!
Do say if I'm wrong though, then I'll withdraw this, lol, and I also admit I'm not exactly explaining why you use that and stuff... but... okay perhaps I withdraw my case :D
Sorry if I got carried away, but I just KNEW it was gonna be this simple, and they made it seem like the difficulty of a rubix cube :/


EDIT: OMG, I can't take this anymore... somehow this applies perfectly to the friggin D Major Scale, but not the F, that has friggin loads of Sharps in it, which this method doesn't produce :/ Y'know.. I really am getting tired of this, this is obviously only for the strong, intellectual minded, or I'm just a twat, cause I can't figure this out after endless tests... I'll come back to it in 3 years or something :/ I would rather remain sane, then be insane and not be able to use this knowledge at all!

EDIT: ARGH THE INSANITY
the 'sharp' keys of G, D, A, E, B, F sharp, C sharp
... I'm never gonna be a good pianist :/

EDIT: I'll take my insanity back now, my method still doesn't work when applied to C# and F#, this is beyond comprehensibility :/ Does to begin with, but once you near the end, the last semitone with my way, you hit a friggin white key, which isn't right according to the list of Major Scales on this site!


  -  -  -  -  -  - 


EDIT: Oh ffs, this is getting ridiculous, just been surfing for an answer, and now another site has my ideal theory put to practise, producing the same results I came up with. This therefore means:
https://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory8.htm
Is wrong at the very bottom of the page, where it displays the so called "Answers", the scores, of the C# and F# Scales. My new source which proves my theory right is here:
https://www.musictheory.halifax.ns.ca/8major_scales.html
I seriously would welcome a comment on this, because else wise, I am never gonna visit this Dolmetsch site ever again, even if my life depended on it!
I really feel like rampaging on for ages about this, and as soon as I get confirmation, I am gonna do just that, but in a form of an Email to this site, TO FIX THE MISTAKE, so new people like me don't get frustrated over there incompetence of producing the Major Scales!

Well Fark that, I just sent the Email anyway because... so much obvious evidence points to the fact he made a mistake on his scores, I sent one already. I also included in it that I may be wrong and mistaken though :P lol, I guess I could post a reply to this insane thread with the result I get from him :/ Or you guys can look and figure it out!

Thankyou for reading all this rubbish, be thankful I didn't octuple post or something and was thread friendly and modified like TWENTY TIMES :P LOL, just tried them on my keyboard, sounds perfect, now I don't have to worry about me or my Email being wrong :P

EDIT: It's the next day, I have a reply... and I am such a twat, lol, I apologized to him for my frustration and stuff :/ He seemed to take my frustration last night pretty well, as I didn't insult him or anything. I knew this.... but for some reason I didn't see it... the E# would be an F because there ain't no Black key intervening :/
 I'm walking, talking, playing Pianistic Failure!
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