Favorite Seventh Chord

[Nightscape]

Here it is.

[i_m_robot]

F   



D



S



 

[Rach3]

minor/major! Because of Mahler 3.

[raymagini]

unforunately i dont split third/minor

[greyrune]

isn't a major/min7 a dominant7, and dim7's kick arse! there is no better 7th chord

[pianomann1984]

Why am I the only person here to like the min7b5?!  Gorgeous! 

[pianonut]

'somewhere over the rainbow, skies are blue..."  (even on friday the 13th - when people are supposed to like really wierd 7ths like ++7? never heard of it)

[ted]

I cannot answer this question. I have no favourite chords. In general I find picking out any art from a large selection peculiarly difficult. Worse than that, if I do select one, my preference changes the next day.

[quantum]

m7#5b9 


Hey does Scriabin's chord count?

C F# Bb E A D

[pianomann1984]

m7#5b9 


Hey does Scriabin's chord count?

C F# Bb E A D

Hey!  How could I forget!  How nice is that chord?! 

[Nightscape]

That's totally not a seventh chord....... more of a quartal chord.  But still a great chord.  Sounds even better when reduced to a scale.

[BoliverAllmon]

'somewhere over the rainbow, skies are blue..."  (even on friday the 13th - when people are supposed to like really wierd 7ths like ++7? never heard of it)

the ++7 is simply an augmented triad with the octave doubled. It isn't a seventh chord.

[BoliverAllmon]

it depends on the timing of the chord. Ger+6 and Dom 7th are my fav. LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Nightscape]

the ++7 is simply an augmented triad with the octave doubled. It isn't a seventh chord.

Ahh.... but it is!

D F# A# Cx

Four separate notes..... each separated by a major third.  On the other hand,

D F# A# D

is not a seventh chord, because there is a diminished fourth, not a major third, between A# and D.

[BoliverAllmon]

Ahh.... but it is!

D F# A# Cx

Four separate notes..... each separated by a major third.  On the other hand,

D F# A# D

is not a seventh chord, because there is a diminished fourth, not a major third, between A# and D.

but that chord will never be in existence. It doesn't work theoretically.

[Nightscape]

but that chord will never be in existence. It doesn't work theoretically.

It does work theoretically...... but not practically.

[BoliverAllmon]

It does work theoretically...... but not practically.

how does it work theoretically?

[Nightscape]

The same way that the key of D# major works theoretically..... but has no use in the practical world.

Besides, if you making a list of all the possible [written seventh chords using all of the types of thirds... you would have to include it for the list to be complete.

[BoliverAllmon]

The same way that the key of D# major works theoretically..... but has no use in the practical world.

Besides, if you making a list of all the possible [written seventh chords using all of the types of thirds... you would have to include it for the list to be complete.

D# maj. doesn't work theoretically. It has double sharps in the key signature and that doesn't occur.

boliver

[Nightscape]

D# maj. doesn't work theoretically. It has double sharps in the key signature and that doesn't occur.

boliver

I think you're getting the words theoretical and practical mixed up.  The key of D# major can be explained in music theory by using the circle of fifths.

C -> G -> D -> A -> E -> B -> F# -> C# -> G# -> D#

From C, we have 0 sharps, all the way to D#, which has 9 sharps. (BTW, this is a real circle of fifths.  Skipping from C# to Ab is 'cheating' becuase its not a perfect fifth, but a diminished sixth.)

The key signature is Fx, Cx, G#, D#, A#, E#, B#

The reason why you never see this key in music is not because it doesn't exist, but that it is impractical when you could just use Eb major instead, which is a much easier key to read in.

But this key does exist - you can transpose any piece to it if you want, and you could also write music in it.  In fact, I'm thinking about going and writing a piece using it right now!

[BoliverAllmon]

I think you're getting the words theoretical and practical mixed up.  The key of D# major can be explained in music theory by using the circle of fifths.

C -> G -> D -> A -> E -> B -> F# -> C# -> G# -> D#

From C, we have 0 sharps, all the way to D#, which has 9 sharps. (BTW, this is a real circle of fifths.  Skipping from C# to Ab is 'cheating' becuase its not a perfect fifth, but a diminished sixth.)

The key signature is Fx, Cx, G#, D#, A#, E#, B#

The reason why you never see this key in music is not because it doesn't exist, but that it is impractical when you could just use Eb major instead, which is a much easier key to read in.

But this key does exist - you can transpose any piece to it if you want, and you could also write music in it.  In fact, I'm thinking about going and writing a piece using it right now!

I see your point. I agree we have a difference in definitions here.

[jlh]

That's totally not a seventh chord....... more of a quartal chord.  But still a great chord.  Sounds even better when reduced to a scale.

Technically it's an altered dominant seventh (the ^5 is flatted).  You could even go so far as to say it's a French 6th.

Scriabin also had synesthesia, and from what he told Hugh MacDonald, when he heard C F# Bb E A D, he also saw red, bright blue, steel, pale blue, green and yellow.

[Nightscape]

Technically it's an altered dominant seventh (the ^5 is flatted).  You could even go so far as to say it's a French 6th.

Scriabin also had synesthesia, and from what he told Hugh MacDonald, when he heard C F# Bb E A D, he also saw red, bright blue, steel, pale blue, green and yellow.

But how do you account for the A and D in the seventh?  I disagree with the analysis that this chord is a type of dominant chord or augmented sixth, because it never serves the functions of those chords.  Also, since Scriabin was into quartal harmony, and since the chord is spelled using diminished, perfect, and augmented fourths, I'm inclined to view and analyze it as a chord built of fourths (a quartal chord).

[jlh]

But how do you account for the A and D in the seventh?  I disagree with the analysis that this chord is a type of dominant chord or augmented sixth, because it never serves the functions of those chords.  Also, since Scriabin was into quartal harmony, and since the chord is spelled using diminished, perfect, and augmented fourths, I'm inclined to view and analyze it as a chord built of fourths (a quartal chord).

Yes, it is a quartal hexachord, but it is really more than just that.  The so-called “mystic chord” is but one of many Scriabin used in which a whole-tone dominant chord is suspended over a tonic root. Scriabin uses this chord not only in the vertical sense, but in the horizontal sense as well. Although neither whole tone nor octatonic, the mystic chord contains elements of both.  When arranged horizontally, the mystic chord has, as stated before, elements of both.

Jim Samson, in his book “Music in Transition: A Study of Tonal Expansion and Atonality” points out that the mystic chord fits in well with Scriabin’s predominately dominant quality sonorities and harmony as it may take on a dominant quality on C or F# (another tritone).

In modern Jazz notation, this can be understood as a fully extended dominant-thirteenth chord. The tritone root motion also resembles the 'tritone substitution' common in Jazz harmonic procedures. In Classical terms, what is tonic for common practice becomes dominant in Scriabin; and what is dominant becomes 'departure dominant'.

Nicolas Slonimsky compares the synthetic chord to a "typical terminal" chord of jazz, rag-time, and rock, the major tonic chord with an added sixth and ninth (if the root is C: C, G, E, A, D), and to Debussy's post-Wagnerian "enhanced" dominant seventh chords. If one moves the F# up to G and the A up to Bb, one is left with a familiar dominant seventh (added ninth).

So it really does take on the function and form of an ALTERED dominant seventh in a similar way that (in classical period terms) a French sixth chord is altered (flat ^5). 

I won’t argue that it is not a quartal chord (because in fact, it is), but I’m just pointing out that the scope is a bit broader.

[Nightscape]

Yes, it is a quartal hexachord, but it is really more than just that.  The so-called “mystic chord” is but one of many Scriabin used in which a whole-tone dominant chord is suspended over a tonic root. Scriabin uses this chord not only in the vertical sense, but in the horizontal sense as well. Although neither whole tone nor octatonic, the mystic chord contains elements of both.  When arranged horizontally, the mystic chord has, as stated before, elements of both.

Jim Samson, in his book “Music in Transition: A Study of Tonal Expansion and Atonality” points out that the mystic chord fits in well with Scriabin’s predominately dominant quality sonorities and harmony as it may take on a dominant quality on C or F# (another tritone).

In modern Jazz notation, this can be understood as a fully extended dominant-thirteenth chord. The tritone root motion also resembles the 'tritone substitution' common in Jazz harmonic procedures. In Classical terms, what is tonic for common practice becomes dominant in Scriabin; and what is dominant becomes 'departure dominant'.

Nicolas Slonimsky compares the synthetic chord to a "typical terminal" chord of jazz, rag-time, and rock, the major tonic chord with an added sixth and ninth (if the root is C: C, G, E, A, D), and to Debussy's post-Wagnerian "enhanced" dominant seventh chords. If one moves the F# up to G and the A up to Bb, one is left with a familiar dominant seventh (added ninth).

So it really does take on the function and form of an ALTERED dominant seventh in a similar way that (in classical period terms) a French sixth chord is altered (flat ^5). 

I won’t argue that it is not a quartal chord (because in fact, it is), but I’m just pointing out that the scope is a bit broader.

Interesting... so you're saying that Scriabin probably arrived at this 'sonority' by meddling with dominant chords and tritone root movements?  I could see that. 

One passage in the literature that really sticks out to me is in Prometheus.... there is a flute passage that occurs twice that uses this mystic chord in it's horizontal form - it's spine tingling!

[BoliverAllmon]

it depends on the timing of the chord. Ger+6 and Dom 7th are my fav. LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ok, I don't know if anyone figured this out (maybe someone did, but just didn't say anything). But a German and a Dom 7th is the same chord. Hence the LOL.

oh well

boliver

[hgiles]

it depends on the timing of the chord. Ger+6 and Dom 7th are my fav. LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Very funny taken out of context, these two chords are the same thing.  Might as well add the Sw+6 to the bunch!   I think it's the Swiss one. 

[BoliverAllmon]

Very funny taken out of context, these two chords are the same thing.  Might as well add the Sw+6 to the bunch!   I think it's the Swiss one. 

Swiss? I only know German, French, and Italian.

please explain.

[Nightscape]

Swiss? I only know German, French, and Italian.

please explain.

Don't forget the Polynesian sixth, the Czech Republic sixth, and of course the popular United Arab Emrites sixth.

[BoliverAllmon]

Don't forget the Polynesian sixth, the Czech Republic sixth, and of course the popular United Arab Emrites sixth.

ah I see.