6"1" Baby Grand - Hallet & Davis vs. Lothar Schell

[dwarta]

My dealer is willing to sell me either model for $8999, including the concert bench.  Which is better, or is there much difference?  It seems that the Hallet & Davis name is more recognizable, but from what I understand Lothar Schell was an engineer before only recently "manufacturing" his own line.  I need some help from experts!  Thanks.

[Brian Lawson, RPT]

Lothar Schell is a German piano designer who lives in South Africa. He designed pianos which used to be made here - Otto Bach & Dietmann. As far as I know both the Lothar Schell and Hallet & Davis are made in China.

Which sounds and plays best?

[iumonito]

I do not have an opinion of one over the other, because I do not know the Lothar Schell.  But I do have an opinion about how to make the decision.

Unless you are committed to doing nothing to the piano, I find it short-sighted to judge them stricly on how they sound.  Minor modifications and preparation can make dramatic improvement in a piano with potential, so I would try to think about it in terms of which piano has superior design rather than which one is playing better today.

I know the concept is a little suspect, because ultimately the question is which piano plays better once they are at their best.  You eventually (actually, quite soon) will need a tuner.  Find one now and ask about voicing the piano to your taste, adjusting the action and which piano has the better scale.

I believe Hallet & Davis is made by Dongbei, and it is entirely possible that it is the same piano I have played under the name August Hoffman.  If so, I have played some of their pianos with no prep and about half of them were really nice.  I hear Dongbei pianos have loads of potential to get better as well.

In asking about the origin of the piano, the wood of the rim (I think these are laminated luan mahogany, which is a softer wood that beech or maple) the brand of the hammers (I think they come out of the factory with low grade Abels, this is the first thing you want to replace once you get the instrument), you may be able to shave the price another couple grand.

If you are in US east coast and all this sounds like stuff you would not get into, call Keith Kerman (he posts here every now and then) at www.pianocraft.com.  He sells a modified Dongbei and may help you end up with a much better instrument.

Good luck.

[jolly]

The August Hoffman is basically the same as the new Nordiska Masters series. Maple rims instead of Catalpa, Abel hammers, Renner actions(or Renner components in the actions).

As far as I know the H-D, and the LS (which used to be manufactured by Xinghai) are essentially the same piano. Catalpa rim, white pine domestic actions, Chinese felt hammers. The regular Nordiska line adds Abel hammers, with possibly a little better build quality.

If you'd like to know more, one of Dongbei's consultants, lb posts on Larry Fletcher's board  https://www.armleg.com/forum/index.php?mforum=pianosinc .  He may be able to give you a much more in-depth analysis than I can...

[dwarta]

Thanks for the replies.  Here are the specs from the N.A. distributor for Hallet & Davis:  Soundboard: Solid Spruce, 2125 square inches, Ribs: Spruce, Inside Rim and Posts: Hardwood, Pinblock: 17 ply Hard Rock Maple (German), Hammers: Imported (German), Keyboard and action parts: White Spruce and Maple, Full "Sustenuto" pedal, European Style: Grand piano action, International Size: Grand Keys, Wet sand cast plate, all wood is kiln dried to international standards.

Does this additional info make the decision any easier?  I'm really at a loss, as the piano is for my daughter, who has played for five years and absolutely loves it.  I never played, and my wife hasn't played in twenty years.  I haven't even seen the Hallet & Davis, but at least one internet ratings site gives the IBACH series a four-star rating, which seems impressive considering the price.  (See pianoratings.com).  Thanks for input already received and any additional help!!!  This site is a blessing. 

[jolly]

Pianoratings is biased, since the guy rates the pianos he sells as higher than those he doesn't.

I've given one piece of advice, to put up a post for lb, and see what you can find out. I also noticed that pianodoc sometimes is on this board, and he does a lot of NAMM work for Geneva. Send him a PM, and ask about the Dongbei product - Rick is a straight shooter, and will tell you the pros and cons.

Don't get too caught up in recipe ingredients. Any durn fool can buy all the ingredients to bake a cake, but not everybody can make one worth eating....

[mamma2my3sons]

Being curious myself about Lothar pianos, I took the liberty of posting your question on https://www.pianoworld.com in the piano forum. (Do a search there as well, there are several threads on Lothar pianos in the archives)

 Apparently the Lothar (along w/ Nordiska, Story & clark) & Hallet Davis are all considered entry level budget grands. Personally I almost bought a Story & Clark (5'5") model when I was looking. Think its nice for the money.  I know Jolly who responded to you as well has posted before how happy he is with the Nordiska he bought for himself & his family. (He is right about the piano ratings site being biased by the way.)

I think Brian who actually IS in the business by being an RPT gave you some good advice when he told you to simply decide which one sounds better to you.

There is a site called https://www.bluebookofpianos.com if you want more information about pricing, piano origin.
Typically a buyer receives 20% or more off of listed MSRP. I've heard the site is not always accurate though so beware! Best of luck to you.

[c18cont]

Didn't know a 6'1" piano was called a baby grand...

John Cont

[jolly]

To be picky, ain't no such thing as a baby grand.....

[dwarta]

I tried to logon to the website suggested earlier to contact "lb" but haven't been able to successfully register.  Anyone have his email address??  Here is an email from my local salesman, which gives the specs for the Lothar Schell.  He insists that the 6'1" H&D and L&S are basically the same thing.  Thanks again for all the advice!

"I found that Mr. Lothar Schell has designed this piano for both himself and Hallet Davis of Boston. This is the only 6'1' model made by the Donbei factory. They are all exactly alike apart from color or wood or stain. Let me know if you have any questions. Below will be the info for Lothar Schell and in the attachement is Hallet Davis." 

From Mr. Schell's website....

"I looked at many manufacturers of grand pianos. I looked for the same things you would look for….good construction,
quality materials, design, touch, action, value, and price. In other words, the most piano for the money. I found the Lothar Schell pianos to exceed these standards. Why? The components in a Lothar Schell piano are well known and highly regarded. For instance, the action is by Errard, a very old, well known and respected German company. They have been making piano actions since, the 1870’s. The Piano strings are made by Roslau, another German company. Many piano technicians (including me) believe there is no better piano wire available, than Roslau wire. The same holds true for the “top of the line” hammers, made by Abel, another highly regarded company. These pianos are quite powerful, which gives you maximum control on the keyboard, and the tone is simply great."

Mr. Schell served a seven year apprenticeship, in the piano building industry, after which, he was awarded the Master of Trade title. He continued his education, receiving his masters degree as an industrial design engineer, and a bachelors degree in business management. Mr. Schell has since received many awards in 1986, 1987, !992, 1994, 1995, and 1996, for his contributions in piano technology. Very impressive credentials.


"Plain and simple, I could not find a better grand piano in quality or value in this price range, and compare my prices to some costing more than twice as much."

Lothar Schell Technical Data
Grand Pianos
LG-185
Height                    40”
Width                     59”
Length                6’1”         
Weight                789  lbs
#1 Base String Speaking Length 59.25”, 3” longer than 6’1” C-3 Yamaha
Tuning Pins: Nickel Plated, Cut Threads by Klinke from Germany
Hammers: Abel Hammers from Germany
Keys: Solid Spruce with Hard Rock Maple Key Buttons and Royal George Felt Key Bushings
Plate: Vacuum Cast
Rim: Continuous Poplar Wood Cross Banded Inner and Outer Rim, High Frequency Glued
Finish High Polish/Satin
Colors:2 Coats of Sealer, and 4 Coats of Polyester ResinCherry/Mahogany, Ebony, White
Soundboard: Solid Stitka Spruce 2100 inches
Pin Block: 22 Layers of Beechwood by Dehonit from Germany
Action: Schwander System by ERARD from Germany
Strings: Roslau Bass and Treble Strings from Germany

[mamma2my3sons]

The lothar has better specifications than the Hallet Davis from what you've posted here (& better than any of the other Dongbei grands-such as Story & Clark, Nordiska as well) If the pianos all SOUND the same to you, I would probably go with the Lothar.

I would check that the specifications on your piano are indeed what you posted though. Spec's seem to change pretty often & sometimes even the dealers are not fully aware.