Appliyng Fink and Sandor to pragmatic method

[lucasdopandeiro]

Hi everybody,

I've been reading for a long time CC's book and many PF's threads, and I definetely agree that the pragmatic way of teaching (finding problems in real repertory) is the best.

I also read in some posts here that Fink's and Sandor's book are the best place for learning the actual movements of playing. How do you guys implement Fink's and Sandor's ideas to the repertory?

For example: I want to learn a new piece. There are some places that I have some problems - how do I apply Fink's ideas there? I really think its not a good idea to go through the whole book as he prescribes, so how do you guys use it?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for my poor english,
Lucas Reis

[xvimbi]

If you are fairly new to piano playing, I would not recommend using those books to acquire good movements. They are far too advanced in a way that you won't be able to easily recognize what is important and what is not so important, let alone how to carry out the movements. The best way is clearly to find a good teacher, then go through repertoire and the books with this guidance.

[lucasdopandeiro]

Hi xvimbi, and thanks for replying! I have really learned a lot from your threads here.

I already play professionally keyboards, and i started classical piano with a teacher six months ago.

I bought those books and would like to know how you and the others here in the forum approach them, in teaching and in learning.

Hope you understand my english!
Lucas Reis

[xvimbi]

There is one more book you should get (IMO) and read before the Fink and Sandor. It's Thomas Mark's book "What every pianist needs to know about the body." The topics discussed in this book set the stage for everything else. You will then be ready for "Primary Movement 1" in Fink's book. This "exercise" alone will take you several months to master if you haven't done so already. Mark's book (and particularly the video) covers this aspect in detail.

One can work through either book in a sequential fashion, or jump around randomly. I personally read both of them first from the start to the end to get an idea about what's in them. Initially, I didn't understand a lot, because I had no one to discuss certain motions in person with, and much of it was too advanced for me. With your background, you should have an easier task, because you will be abe to relate to most of it right away. I keep on re-reading sections as I need them. Some of it only now makes sense to me. The quest to perfect technique is eternal, it seems.

[lucasdopandeiro]

Thanks again, xvimbi! I'll certainly look for this other book and video.

I would like to know what others have to say about this subject too!

Bye all,
Lucas Reis

[bernhard]

In fact both Sandor and Fink exemplify the movements by reference to actual passages of the standard repertory. You can check and see if they mention any of the pieces you are working now at the moment, or you can use one of the pieces they mention as examples. Fink’s video is very good in that aspect because he will demonstrate the movements, and then go to the piano and play a passage from a piece showing exactly how the movement is applicable. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for Sandor. There is no accompanying video to his book so you have to rely on a verbal description. If you already know what he is talking about (in which case you do not need the book) you will be able to immediately identify the movement from his description and do it at the piano. However, if you do not have a clue, then it is very easy to get the completely wrong idea from a verbal description. This is not a criticism of these books, but rather an acknowledgement of the limits of language.

So xvimbi’s suggestion is really the best: discuss this with a teacher. Even if the teacher does not know these books, s/he should be able to figure it out straight away: these movements have been around for a couple of hundred years. Sandor and Fik have not invented them, they just went to the trouble to organise and document them (in very different ways, I should add – so each book complements and informs the other – they are talking about the same thing from different perspectives).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[lucasdopandeiro]

Thanks Bernhard!

I'll try this, and try to discuss with other pianists too. The book format really isn't the best for describing movements of any sort. I'm glad I have Fink's video.

And what about the Primary Movements, the ones away from the piano? How should I work on them (with me or with students) ?

Thanks already for the replys,
Lucas Reis