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Lucas Debargue - A Matter of Life or Death
Pianist Lucas Debargue recently recorded the complete piano works of Gabriel Fauré on the Opus 102, a very special grand piano by Stephen Paulello. Eric Schoones from the German/Dutch magazine PIANIST had a conversation with him. Read more >>

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Topic: Chopin Etudes (Read 5043 times)

piano1234

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Chopin Etudes

on: May 21, 2005, 05:38:10 PM

Hi I'm new to this board. I would like to get into Chopin Etudes very soon. I want to learn them all. Can somebody help me rank them from easiest to hardiest??

Im also interested in The Godowsky Studies are they a lot more difficult?

Thanks

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Kassaa

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #1 on: May 21, 2005, 06:05:57 PM

What pieces are you playing?

And yes, the godowsky etudes are a complete hell to play.

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piano1234

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #2 on: May 21, 2005, 06:53:24 PM

I haven't played any of the chopin etudes. I want to start with the easiest.

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Ruro

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #3 on: May 21, 2005, 07:07:21 PM

I think interpretation got the better of this thread

I think he's asking what other pieces are you playing atm, so he can even start to recommend. Although, I would have personally presumed if you were asking for a list, then you could already play something of equal difficulty :/

Ah, I think the misinterpretation was when you said: "I would like to get into Chopin Etudes very soon", sounds like a beginner pianists words >_<

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thierry13

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #4 on: May 21, 2005, 07:07:41 PM

What have you played before?

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piano1234

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #5 on: May 21, 2005, 08:35:03 PM

I recently finished Fantasy Impromptu. I can play Beethoven piano Sonata No8 in C minor fairly well.

thanks for your replies

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teresa_b

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #6 on: May 21, 2005, 09:17:05 PM

Hi Piano,

Try "Aeolian Harp" etude first. It uses some of the techniques you picked up in Fantasie Impromptu.

All the best, Teresa

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Autumndark

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #7 on: May 21, 2005, 11:08:10 PM

I don't know what's hardest, but I think Op. 10, No. 3 and Op. 10, No. 9 are two of the easier ones. They're also two (IMO) of the prettiest.

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Kassaa

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #8 on: May 22, 2005, 07:08:59 AM

Op. 25/2

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Bouter Boogie

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #9 on: May 22, 2005, 09:16:06 AM

Maybe try op. 10?
I play the 5th and the 8th..
They're my first Chopin Etudes actually

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steinwayguy

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #10 on: May 22, 2005, 02:53:54 PM

Op. 10 No. 5, 6, 9, 12 or Op. 25 No. 1, 2, 3

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chopinisque

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #11 on: May 24, 2005, 08:06:58 AM

op. 25 1 and 2 are quite similar to the Fantasy impromptu.

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Mad about Chopin.

hoffmanntales

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #12 on: May 24, 2005, 09:11:32 AM

Hi

I know how subjective it can be, but could anybody rate Chopin's Etudes (ABRSM or whatever?).

Thanks

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i_m_robot

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #13 on: May 25, 2005, 04:38:29 AM

they all exceed those grade levels

(just kidding self doesnt know)

learn the etude 10-2, 10-4, 10-6, 25-6 and 25-10

you'll be set with these

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Awakening

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #14 on: May 27, 2005, 03:00:53 AM

My amateur opinion, not having played them all (easiest to hardest):

Opus 10: 6, 9, 5, 3, 12, 8, 4, 1, 7, 11, 10, 2

Opus 25: 2, 1, 9, 7, 12, 4, 10, 3, 8, 11, 5, 6

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chopintod

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #15 on: May 27, 2005, 07:14:55 PM

Sorry that I can't rank them yet, but I'm just getting into the etudes myself (though I'm still struggling with Fant-Imp.). (As a side note, I LOVE Chopin!--notice my name? lol) Anyway, I'm starting with the Revolutionary Etude (no. 12). It's possibly the most well known of the etudes (especially for the general public), and it's wickedly fun to play (hehe, that sounded British!). Not that hard, either. Try the Revo. and let me know what you think (you can get the music online for free if you don't have a book). Good luck!

Oh, and perhaps you could share with me how you mastered that devilish Fantasie-Impromptu? Thanks!

Terry

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i_m_robot

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #16 on: May 27, 2005, 07:36:13 PM

Quote from: Kassaa on May 21, 2005, 06:05:57 PM

And yes, the godowsky etudes are a complete hell to play.

tis true

self's self showed teacher the left hand version of 10-1

teacher attempted to read/play it a bit

then silently cursed godowsky and his five flats (and teacher's got mad skillz

)

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BoliverAllmon

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #17 on: May 28, 2005, 04:39:24 AM

Quote from: i_m_robot on May 27, 2005, 07:36:13 PM

tis true

self's self showed teacher the left hand version of 10-1

teacher attempted to read/play it a bit

then silently cursed godowsky and his five flats (and teacher's got mad skillz )

that is funny.

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hoffmanntales

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #18 on: May 28, 2005, 07:50:31 AM

Quote from: ChopinTOD on May 27, 2005, 07:14:55 PM

Sorry that I can't rank them yet, but I'm just getting into the etudes myself (though I'm still struggling with Fant-Imp.). (As a side note, I LOVE Chopin!--notice my name? lol) Anyway, I'm starting with the Revolutionary Etude (no. 12). It's possibly the most well known of the etudes (especially for the general public), and it's wickedly fun to play (hehe, that sounded British!). Not that hard, either. Try the Revo. and let me know what you think (you can get the music online for free if you don't have a book). Good luck!

Oh, and perhaps you could share with me how you mastered that devilish Fantasie-Impromptu? Thanks!

Terry

I still have to start with the Studies... so do you suggest to start with the op. 10 no. 12? I know it very well (as I know Chopin's opera in overall... I love Chopin too, he is the greatest piano composer ever) but I've always though it is one of the hardest of them, so not the right choice to approach Chopin's Etudes...

Do you think it is a good choice instead? not so hard?

Of course I would like to learn it, as it is one of my favourite Chopin's pieces...

Greetings

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sznitzeln

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #19 on: May 28, 2005, 11:39:49 AM

Quote from: i_m_robot on May 27, 2005, 07:36:13 PM

self's self showed teacher the left hand version of 10-1

LOL ... "self's self"

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C-A

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #20 on: May 28, 2005, 01:18:47 PM

Start with either of these:
10/6, 25/1, 25/2, 10/9, 10/5, 10/10, 25/6(I dare you to try this one! This was my 2nd etude, right after 25/1)
If it's too difficult, try the "3 new etudes". They're much easier than the others.

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chopintod

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #21 on: May 28, 2005, 05:09:37 PM

Quote from: hoffmanntales on May 28, 2005, 07:50:31 AM

I still have to start with the Studies... so do you suggest to start with the op. 10 no. 12? I know it very well (as I know Chopin's opera in overall... I love Chopin too, he is the greatest piano composer ever) but I've always though it is one of the hardest of them, so not the right choice to approach Chopin's Etudes...

Do you think it is a good choice instead? not so hard?

Of course I would like to learn it, as it is one of my favourite Chopin's pieces...

Greetings

It is my opinion (and maybe not shared) that etude no. 12 (Revolutionary) isn't nearly as hard as some make it out to be. It does require a certain amount of hands separate work to get the left hand up to speed, but it contains no large jumps. Like I said, in my last post, I haven't played the other etudes yet so I can't compare them, but I think that no. 12 isn't nearly as hard as some say it is (if your left hand is agile). Like I said before, this is quite possibly the best known of his etudes and one of the best-sounding. I suggest that you try it and let me know what you think.

Terry

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steinwayguy

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #22 on: May 29, 2005, 12:31:03 AM

Opus 10: 6, 9, 5, 12, 11, 3, 10, 8, 4, 7, 1, 2

Opus 25: 3, 1, 2, 7, 9, 12, 5, 8, 10, 11, 4, 6

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C-A

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #23 on: May 29, 2005, 05:51:35 AM

Quote from: SteinwayGuy on May 29, 2005, 12:31:03 AM

Opus 10: 6, 9, 5, 12, 11, 3, 10, 8, 4, 7, 1, 2

Opus 25: 3, 1, 2, 7, 9, 12, 5, 8, 10, 11, 4, 6

Or maybe:
All 27 in order: (3 new etudes)2, 1, 3, 10/6, 10/9, 25/2, 25/1, 25/7 10/10, 10/12, 25/5, 10/8, 10/11, 25/3, 10/5, 10/3, 25/9, 10/4, 25/4, 25/10, 25/11, 25/12, 10/7, 25/8, 10/1, 10/2, 25/6

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steinwayguy

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #24 on: May 29, 2005, 06:29:58 PM

Quote from: C-A on May 29, 2005, 05:51:35 AM

Or maybe:
All 27 in order: (3 new etudes)2, 1, 3, 10/6, 10/9, 25/2, 25/1, 25/7 10/10, 10/12, 25/5, 10/8, 10/11, 25/3, 10/5, 10/3, 25/9, 10/4, 25/4, 25/10, 25/11, 25/12, 10/7, 25/8, 10/1, 10/2, 25/6

Alright but you're underestimating 25/2 and 25/4 and overestimating 10/11, 25/3, 25/10, 25/8 and 25/12, I feel.

As I've said, I think 25/4 would be the most difficult to perform under intense pressure; all those leaps are suicide. I heard a story of Perahia concertizing it and missing nearly every one.

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robert

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #25 on: May 31, 2005, 01:08:29 PM

My advice is to learn all etudes in op.10 before you move on to op.25. The reason is that op.10 deals more with fundamental techniques and are as a whole easier to learn (read memorise).
You have probably heard this warning before but you must accept the fact that none of these etudes are easy while some are really difficult. At least to play in correct tempo.
Also, be prepared to spend at least a year learning op.10. I do not know your age or what you have played before but judging from that you have played none of these etudes before, you are at least not very experienced.

I would definitely start with op.10 no.9 first as it is in my opinion the least difficult. The fingering of left hand with the stretch from F to C with finger 5-4 will be the greatest challange. It is possible to play 5-3 but that is cheating and remember that these etudes are exercises and cheating in exercises just makes no sense right?
If you feel you can handle this etude well within reasonable time, you might be prepared for the whole set.

While starting up this etude, I would definitely read my friends Malcolm Kandzia's guide to Chopin's etudes which is located here:
https://www.pianosociety.com/index.php?id=111

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nanabush

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #26 on: June 01, 2005, 03:29:15 AM

Do you think the study in Thirds or Sixths is harder, they both sound extremely difficult, and I also think I would have a better shot at winterwind than thirds, I cannot play thirds if I try for an hour, winterwind though I got the jist of the first part, about half of the first page, then just kinda stopped, never tried again...Why does the WW have to be so long@! If It was 4 pages...

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viking

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #27 on: June 01, 2005, 03:39:36 AM

Quote from: Nanabush on June 01, 2005, 03:29:15 AM

....I would have a better shot at winterwind than thirds....

Just a comment:
My piano teacher says to learn this song and dont perform it for 7 years regardless of how good anybody is. Technically one might be ok learning this song, but I believe winter wind is the hardest etude to play technically and musically combined (IMO). Its a song you must play PERFECT in competition or the judges will hate you. However, when played extremely well, one would probably win.

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steinwayguy

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #28 on: June 01, 2005, 04:57:42 AM

Quote from: viking on June 01, 2005, 03:39:36 AM

Just a comment:
My piano teacher says to learn this song and dont perform it for 7 years regardless of how good anybody is. Technically one might be ok learning this song, but I believe winter wind is the hardest etude to play technically and musically combined (IMO). Its a song you must play PERFECT in competition or the judges will hate you. However, when played extremely well, one would probably win.

And don't EVER call the "Winter Wind" Etude a song.

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Kassaa

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #29 on: June 01, 2005, 05:00:01 AM

Quote from: SteinwayGuy on June 01, 2005, 04:57:42 AM

And don't EVER call the "Winter Wind" Etude a song.

Agreed

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milkcarton08

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #30 on: June 01, 2005, 05:52:18 PM

Quote from: ChopinTOD on May 28, 2005, 05:09:37 PM

It is my opinion (and maybe not shared) that etude no. 12 (Revolutionary) isn't nearly as hard as some make it out to be. It does require a certain amount of hands separate work to get the left hand up to speed, but it contains no large jumps. Like I said, in my last post, I haven't played the other etudes yet so I can't compare them, but I think that no. 12 isn't nearly as hard as some say it is (if your left hand is agile). Like I said before, this is quite possibly the best known of his etudes and one of the best-sounding. I suggest that you try it and let me know what you think.

Terry

What do you consider a large jump? I consider 2 and 1/2 octaves to be large jump, and 10.12 has many of these in the left hand of course pg.2, but I agree that the Revolutionary isn't that hard, I also think it would be a good first Chopin etude.

- michael

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chopintod

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #31 on: June 01, 2005, 08:53:16 PM

Quote from: milkcarton08 on June 01, 2005, 05:52:18 PM

What do you consider a large jump? I consider 2 and 1/2 octaves to be large jump, and 10.12 has many of these in the left hand of course pg.2, but I agree that the Revolutionary isn't that hard, I also think it would be a good first Chopin etude.

- michael

Maybe I should clarify...I meant large jumps involving chords. Some etudes require you to make large jumps while playing chords. These passages are quite difficult. Single-note jumps aren't nearly as difficult to learn. Oh, and glad to see that someone agrees with me about the Revo's difficulty. I've seen too many posts on this and other forums saying that they don't want to try the Revo because they think it's too difficult.

Terry

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Awakening

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #32 on: June 02, 2005, 05:31:29 AM

Quote from: viking on June 01, 2005, 03:39:36 AM

Just a comment:
My piano teacher says to learn this song and dont perform it for 7 years regardless of how good anybody is. Technically one might be ok learning this song, but I believe winter wind is the hardest etude to play technically and musically combined (IMO). Its a song you must play PERFECT in competition or the judges will hate you. However, when played extremely well, one would probably win.

It's a ridiculously hard etude, no doubt, but I would put the 10/2 and 25/6 above it. Winter Wind is long, fast, and requires a variety of techniques to master. However, it isn't ridiculously more difficult than something like 10/12 or 10/8, which both have a chorded melody in one hand and then a fast accompanying part made up of scales and arpeggios, similar to 25/11. The only difference with 25/11 is that the harmony is significantly more awkawrd, and the pattern is even harder to see.

10/2 and 25/6 on the other hand, are ridiculous studies of technique that are intensely awkward and difficult. The right hand fingering of 10/2 is almost painful, which makes playing it at any respectable speed a huge undertaking. Just try playing chromatic thirds like the ones from 25/6 at any speed and you'll realize why it's so horrible. The piece is unrelenting, and it makes my arm hurt just thinking about it.

I put 25/11 way up there, and I agree that it requires a lot of musical ability as well as technical, but I disagree that it is more difficult than all the others.

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nanabush

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #33 on: June 02, 2005, 11:28:48 PM

I'm not "pro" at Chopin Etudes, I can play Black key and op 10 F minor etude, the F minor one without a lot of detail...But Thirds, ya lol they make my arm hurt thinking about them, and although Winter Wind may be harder musically in the end, it will be easier to get the notes right than 10/2 and 25/6...And one more thing, the op10 number 7 I think in C major, well not the first one in C major with arpeggios, but the other, I just tried first measure for fun, and how it is so hard to play!? People have been saying it's one of the easier etudes, saying they would play that one first, It looks to be one of the harder etudes, or is it one of those things, once you got the first mesure, the rest comes easier?

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Awakening

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #34 on: June 03, 2005, 12:13:25 AM

Quote from: Nanabush on June 02, 2005, 11:28:48 PM

I'm not "pro" at Chopin Etudes, I can play Black key and op 10 F minor etude, the F minor one without a lot of detail...But Thirds, ya lol they make my arm hurt thinking about them, and although Winter Wind may be harder musically in the end, it will be easier to get the notes right than 10/2 and 25/6...And one more thing, the op10 number 7 I think in C major, well not the first one in C major with arpeggios, but the other, I just tried first measure for fun, and how it is so hard to play!? People have been saying it's one of the easier etudes, saying they would play that one first, It looks to be one of the harder etudes, or is it one of those things, once you got the first mesure, the rest comes easier?

No way, this is not one of the easier ones. It's very difficult. The fingerwork is similar to the kind of thing you run into in the sixths and thirds etudes. I don't think anyone would recommend playing this etude first. You may be thinking of Op.25 No.7, which is much slower and more manageable from a technical standpoint. I still say that 25/7 is quite difficult, though, because musically, it is a very complex piece.

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steinwayguy

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #35 on: June 03, 2005, 04:05:09 AM

Op. 10 No. 7 is the third-hardest in the set and probably sixth or seventh hardest overall.

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nanabush

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #36 on: June 03, 2005, 04:38:57 AM

Ok good, I thought I was missing something, I was like hey, 'an easier etude ehh.. well I'll try it for fun', then like 2 minutes later, I was wondering what I was doing wrong I was like hmmmm, ummm... then just crumpled the music and walked away...well that was a while ago, but I've seen somewhere might not even be this forum that that etude was easier...so ya wait third hardest to what? Probably the first and second in op10?

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C-A

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #37 on: June 04, 2005, 07:26:07 AM

Quote from: Awakening on June 02, 2005, 05:31:29 AM

It's a ridiculously hard etude, no doubt, but I would put the 10/2 and 25/6 above it. Winter Wind is long, fast, and requires a variety of techniques to master. However, it isn't ridiculously more difficult than something like 10/12 or 10/8, which both have a chorded melody in one hand and then a fast accompanying part made up of scales and arpeggios, similar to 25/11. The only difference with 25/11 is that the harmony is significantly more awkawrd, and the pattern is even harder to see.

10/2 and 25/6 on the other hand, are ridiculous studies of technique that are intensely awkward and difficult. The right hand fingering of 10/2 is almost painful, which makes playing it at any respectable speed a huge undertaking. Just try playing chromatic thirds like the ones from 25/6 at any speed and you'll realize why it's so horrible. The piece is unrelenting, and it makes my arm hurt just thinking about it.

I put 25/11 way up there, and I agree that it requires a lot of musical ability as well as technical, but I disagree that it is more difficult than all the others.

That's right. My teacher even has a hard time playing it. At the recap of the main theme, she begins to slow down, man you need to have a lot endurance playing it!
Musically I don't think it's that difficult.
I fully learned 2 etudes- the 25/1 and 25/6.
I thought the worst as my teacher gave me 25/6, but actually, it isn't that difficult. It took me no more than 2 months to learn it. The 25/6 is very, very easy to memorize. It's just a piece with chromatic third scales going up and down juxtaposed with a complex left hand. No problem in bringing out the melodic line here.
I also have no trouble learning it. The only problem is that my right hand fingers 3, 4 and 5 becomes painful and tired after playing the etude. The next etude my teacher gave me is the 10/1.

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nanabush

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #38 on: June 04, 2005, 09:00:34 PM

So you had no trouble at all learning how to play thirds at very fast speeds for several pages, crisp clear thirds? That just came to you like that? I... I don't understand

how were thirds so easy to learn for you in different patterns?

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BoliverAllmon

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #39 on: June 04, 2005, 09:55:02 PM

Quote from: Nanabush on June 04, 2005, 09:00:34 PM

So you had no trouble at all learning how to play thirds at very fast speeds for several pages, crisp clear thirds? That just came to you like that? I... I don't understand how were thirds so easy to learn for you in different patterns?

thirds suck for me. I struggle with them.

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FranzLiszt369

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #40 on: June 05, 2005, 06:27:42 PM

Op. 10 No. 3 is actually a moderately challenging piece. You simply have to voice out (clearly) the top note of the right hand. It's also one of the most beautiful etudes. Hats to anyone who can pull it off with beautiful phrasing and lyricism.

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prodigy91

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #41 on: June 08, 2005, 01:19:24 PM

hmmm i have played chopin etude...but not all....etude five...is one of this year's ABRSM diploma pieces....happy trying!=)

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g_flat

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #42 on: June 09, 2005, 07:06:40 AM

Well, I'm not really sure if the original intention of this thread has remained (finding piano1234 a Chopin Etude to play), nor am I entirely sure that piano1234 is still in the market for a prospective Chopin Etude, but since the person above me just mentioned No.5 (I'm assuming we're talking about the "Black Keys" from Op. 10), I will say that I recetly began working on this piece, and have thus far found it to not quite live up to my expectations as far as difficulty. Am I saying it is easy? Of course not! It's a Chopin Etude! But, not as hard as I was expecting my first Chopin Etude to be. It's a enjoyable piece to play, very light and cheerful sounding piece.... very sparkly (if that makes sense). I generally prefer pieces in a minor key (I love drama, what can I say), especially when it comes to Chopin, but this piece is very much within my taste.

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viking

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #43 on: June 15, 2005, 02:42:21 PM

Quote from: SteinwayGuy on June 01, 2005, 04:57:42 AM

And don't EVER call the "Winter Wind" Etude a song.

It's a bad habit, I'm trying to change....

SAM

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viking

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Re: Chopin Etudes

Reply #44 on: June 15, 2005, 02:45:52 PM

Quote from: C-A on June 04, 2005, 07:26:07 AM

I thought the worst as my teacher gave me 25/6, but actually, it isn't that difficult. It took me no more than 2 months to learn it. The 25/6 is very, very easy to memorize.

Sounds about the same here. 3rds come easy to me, and as much as I suck at sightreading, I can play this etude reasonably well after 1 week... Not saying it isn't tough, but difficulty is in the eye of the beholder (or something like that)
SAM

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