Etudes opus 10 no. 1 and 12 in performance

[astroboy]

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering what everyones opinions are on playing Chopin's no. 12 etude followed by his no. 1 etude, without a break (except for the 4 counts at the end of no. 12), at a concert/recital. Because the no. 12 ends on a C major chord, and no. 1 is in C major, it sort of makes sence, and i've tried it, and it doesn't sound too bad.

Has anyone played it this way? or heard anyone play it this way? I'm interested in your opinions. Thanks heaps

Ryan

[BoliverAllmon]

interesting idea. I haven't thought of it before.

[Rach3]

Personally, I would leave an unmetric break between them, like between movements of a piece.

[steinwayguy]

I suppose it could work but Op. 10 No. 1 is the ultimate prelude as far as Chopin's Etudes go, and Op. 10 No. 12 is one of the best closers.

[Alde]

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering what everyones opinions are on playing Chopin's no. 12 etude followed by his no. 1 etude, without a break (except for the 4 counts at the end of no. 12), at a concert/recital. Because the no. 12 ends on a C major chord, and no. 1 is in C major, it sort of makes sence, and i've tried it, and it doesn't sound too bad.

Has anyone played it this way? or heard anyone play it this way? I'm interested in your opinions. Thanks heaps

Ryan

What else is on the program?

[astroboy]

What else is on the program?

It's just those 2 pieces. Sorta part of a variety concert, with other pianists and musicians, or my performance class at uni where we perform and give each other critisism.

[nanabush]

Not as awkward as my 'mini' recital...I was told to play three pieces which will not go well together:  First movement of Grieg Sonata, Flight of the Bumblebee (probably not original version) followed by Maple Leaf Rag LMFAO!!!  Makes no sense eh?  My teacher wanted me to play a variety... and it's the same case, there's about ten students ranging skill levels...

Try what you want, put the Revolutionary in front if you wish, there's no law against it...

[pianiststrongbad]

I agree with steinwayguy, that op 10 no 1 is probably one of the best opening pieces in the repertoire.  It is definately harder to play than op 10 no 12 in my opinion, so i could understand if you would want to warm up a bit on op 10 no 12 and then go into op 10 no 1.  Though the C major chord at the end of the revolutionary etude I really don't hear as a I chord, but more of a dominant sorta leading to f minor- which is never resolved.  Anyways it is your choice.  But personally I would start with op. 10 no 1.

[Rach3]

Though the C major chord at the end of the revolutionary etude I really don't hear as a I chord, but more of a dominant sorta leading to f minor- which is never resolved.

Look up "Picardy third", it's very interesting theory.

[pianiststrongbad]

I know what a Picardy third is, thanks.  But I really don't hear op. 10 no 12 ending in C major.  Sure that is the last chord of the piece, but that doesn't mean C is the tonal center at this point in the piece.  Measure 78 is really the place i begin hearing this in F because of the left hand it has F-C over and over just like in the original figure (in the original figure it was C-G).  I hear this as a I-V motion.  The opening material is also transposed into f minor in measure 77 in the left hand.  It repeats in the same key in 79 and in measure 81 in both hands- in f minor.  I mean there is no V (G major) chord anywhere indicating C major in the last ten measures of the piece.  The only thing that comes remotely close is measure 75-76 in my opinion.  Lets suppose the piece does end tonicizing C major.  Well the motion is beginning in measure 75 is V (G), measure 77 is a I (C) for a half a beat til Chopin starts tonicizing F (IV) minor.  And then chopin alternates between f minor and C major.  Which if ending on C major you could say it had an elongated plagal cadence (V-I- IV- I).  But what I hear is f minor and then ending on a half cadence- the V chord (C major).  Just my opinion.  I'm interested if other people think this piece actually ends tonicizing C major or not.

[Bulgarian]

I know what a Picardy third is, thanks.  But I really don't hear op. 10 no 12 ending in C major.  Sure that is the last chord of the piece, but that doesn't mean C is the tonal center at this point in the piece.  Measure 78 is really the place i begin hearing this in F because of the left hand it has F-C over and over just like in the original figure (in the original figure it was C-G).  I hear this as a I-V motion.  The opening material is also transposed into f minor in measure 77 in the left hand.  It repeats in the same key in 79 and in measure 81 in both hands- in f minor.  I mean there is no V (G major) chord anywhere indicating C major in the last ten measures of the piece.  The only thing that comes remotely close is measure 75-76 in my opinion.  Lets suppose the piece does end tonicizing C major.  Well the motion is beginning in measure 75 is V (G), measure 77 is a I (C) for a half a beat til Chopin starts tonicizing F (IV) minor.  And then chopin alternates between f minor and C major.  Which if ending on C major you could say it had an elongated plagal cadence (V-I- IV- I).  But what I hear is f minor and then ending on a half cadence- the V chord (C major).  Just my opinion.  I'm interested if other people think this piece actually ends tonicizing C major or not.

I agree 100%. It sounds like ending on a dominant.  Sometimes I wander if he did not intend to write another opus of etudes starting with an etude in f minor, so the Revolutionary etude could go attacca (sp?) into this new etude.  Perhaps later, when he wrote Op. 25 he changed his mind. Imagine how logical it would have been if Op. 25 started with its second etude  :)Lastly, he may have had some philosophical idea behind the etude and its "unfinished" end. Perhaps he is telling us "The battle is not finished!" in relation to the Warsaw rebellion against the Russians. (The last has supposedly inspired this etude)...