F# and Gb

[cadenz]

reading this forum has got me wondering things i wouldn't usually wonder about. and i've been wondering, why might composers write a piece in F# major, and another in Gb major? i know they sound the same and have the same amount of sharps or flats, yet is there a reason why Gb might be choosed for one piece and F# for another?
I have heard of different keys being used for different feelings or emotions, perhaps F# is used for one kind of emotion and Gb for another?
or does it have no particular relevance?

[musik_man]

It only depends on whether the composer thinks # or b looks cooler.

[xvimbi]

The only reasons I can see is where it would make a difference (a big difference actually) is

- when the piece in question needs to maintain certain key relationships to other pieces, e.g. different movements of a larger piece

- when there are modulations within the piece that require certain relationships. For example, a modulation to the key of the dominant of the piece would obviously be different for Gb and F#.

[jlh]

Perhaps another reason they might is to make the score look cleaner and easier to read  on the page... for instance maybe there are scaler or chordal patterns that would require a lot of double flats or sharps depending on the key.

[hgiles]

Let's say the piece modulated to D major.  Would you rather the main piece be written in F# or Gb?  What if it modulated to F?  F# or Gb?

You are going to tie your brain in knots going from #s in the signature then to bs in the signature.  Probably not so much if it goes from 6#s to 2#s, or from 6bs to 1b.

Which signature is used probably would be based on the modulations within the piece.

[kghayesh]

I don't know why composers write pieces in these 5#s or 5bs keys. Can't they just make everything easier for them and for the performer and write it in C major or G major or A minor or E minor or something...

For example, The Tchaikovsky piano concerto in Bb minor. What would be the difference if Tchaikovsky modulated this half a note downwards to make in A minor??

Please i need a reply because i am so confused with this issue since i learned music.

[robertp]

Couple of things come to mind on the query of the previous post.

Composers aren't necessarily into making things easier for pianists. Beethoven and Chopin come to mind immediately.

Each key has a different character. More than once, A major has been referred to as a "sunny" key and that it's no coincidence that Beethoven chose it for his 7th symphony. You can easily see this, in several ways:
1. Get a piano reduction of the symphony, and play a page or so in a different key. D major would make a good choice to demonstrate -- also D-flat.
2. Or take a piece you know fairly well and transpose it.  WTC I.1 comes to mind.
3. You can even *start* to hear it even in a Czerny study. When I run into knotty passages in School of Velocity, I practice them (with the same fingering) in D-flat. Has very good results, for me at least.

[hgiles]

Each key has a different character. More than once, A major has been referred to as a "sunny" key and that it's no coincidence that Beethoven chose it for his 7th symphony.

Maybe before the advent of even-tempered tuning certain keys had an individual character and composers chose to write in these keys for this character.  Now days, this isn't the case, but the tradition and romantic notion still prevails.

If A major sounds all that different than Bb major then:

1) You have perfect pitch or
2) Your piano isn't tuned properly

It is register and the music itself that is going to make something sound "sunny" or not.  Not the key it's in.  Not today. 

Certain patterns of music fall under the fingers differently based on the key.  It's these patterns that influence today's writer more than anything else.

These are my opinions only.  (As I don my NOMEX!)

[sonatainfsharp]

Don't get me started...

[Floristan]

Personally I'd rather play in Bb minor than A minor.  It fits better under the hand.  I think all the flat keys fit better under the hand than the sharp keys.  The scales are easier to execute, too.  Plus I don't think they sound the same at all.  Bb minor tends to modulate into other flat keys, but A minor is just a little too close to C  and G for a moody, introspective piece.  Now all of you will show me introspective pieces in A minor, I'm sure!   

[jlh]

Well, I DO have perfect pitch and there is a big difference to my ears when something is in a different key than I'm used to hearing.

One piece that immediately comes to mind is the Schubert Impromptu 90/3 that he originally wrote in G-flat.  The publisher, however, didn't think the public would want to learn something with that many flats, so they published it first in the key of G.  Thankfully this was corrected with time.  G-flat has a softer, darker character to my ears than G and it fits the mood of the piece much better, even though it's only a half step away.

[chelsey]

You have to remember that composers write pieces for instruments other than piano.

And to a good violinist, a Gb isn't necessarily the same note as an F#. It all depends on the context of the note. Orchestral instruments don't always necessarily function on an Equal Temperment. The idea of context also applies to whether a piece modulates into Db major or C# major, it all depends on the context of the modulation, it's place and function in the music.

The doctrine of affections, guidelines for "moods" of different keys stems back to the fact that before Bach, different keys had different temperments. Look at Bach's WTC, each prelude and fugue carries a different mood and atmosphere and fits the key in which it was written.