Buying a Digital Stage Piano - My Story

[Bitruder]

It's been a about 6 weeks since I started my search for a digital stage piano and last night I finally bought one.  I've done so much research that I thought I should share it with the rest of you.  Below is every keyboad that I played.

First, here's why I was looking for a keyboard.  I bought a Roland RS-9 about 3 years ago.  It's semi-weighted and comes with a LOT of samples.  None outstanding, but back then, I was young and naive so I was attracted to it's good looks.  I play a lot of jazz and I also play wedding services (classical).  Everytime I played the RS-9 I felt limited.  I ended up hating the feel and the piano sound was quite moot.  Finally, the knobs on it broke (stopped working) so I decided I wanted a new keyboard.  A stage piano.  I brought my RS-9 into Long&McQuade (music chain in Canada that has been AMAZING for me) to be repaired and my quest began.

I needed a keyboard with the following specs

• Great feel
• Great Piano Sounds
• Portable

Let the games begin.

Korg Triton
I played this one in the store.  It felt pretty good, but the piano sounds weren't anything to get overly excited for.  It also comes with a lot of studio things like sequencers and huge sound banks, which I didn't really need so I didn't spend a lot of time on this keyboard.

Kawai MP9500
This keyboard FELT amazing.  The keys are made of wood and the action felt real (although, I found it sort of light, but not "fake" light.  It felt like a real piano, with light action.  Hard to describe).  Anyway, it was a great keyboard, but weighing in at 85lbs, it wasn't very portable and therefore off the list.

Roland _______
I am biased here.  I've personally decided never to buy Roland keyboards again after the experiences with my RS-9.  Not the keyboard itself, but their customer service.  Shortly after I got it, the knobs stopped working.  It was sent to Roland to be repaired on Warrenty and it took 6 WEEKS to get fixed.  That's not acceptable.  This second time, it is being fixed by a local guy, but he had to wait 5 weeks for the parts to come in, and then one was missing so he put in a rush order on the missing part and it took 2 weeks.  For these reasons, I'm staying away from the Rolands.

Yamaha S90
This keyboard was great.  It had a very nice feel, and a TON of features.  Most of which I realized I would never use.  Plus, it was sort of heavy.

Yamaha P90
Great little keyboard, and from what I hear is basically a P120 (see below) without speakers.  I liked the idea of having speakers though since they act as a personal monitor when playing with an amp.

Kawai ES3 *Runner Up*
L&M gave me one of these on a free loan while my Roland was being repaired since I needed a keyboard for a wedding.  When I first played it, it felt great.  The keyboard had a nice feel to it, and it had good action.  The main grand piano sound was also quite nice, especially at the top and bottom of the range.  I found the middle tones were a little blah though.  After playing for 2 hours straight at the wedding, I also found the action was a little too light.

Yamaha P120 *Winner*
This was the first keyboard I played in the store.  To be honest, I didn't like the action the first time I played it.  I found it almost TOO heavy.  But then, after playing the ES3, I sat down on the P120 again and it felt just right.  Last night I went and played the P120 for about 15 minutes straight... then walked away, talked numbers with the sales guy (I'm trading in my RS-9) and went back and played it for another 10 minutes.  The piano sound on it was better than the ES3 in my opinion, and once you get warmed up, I found the heavier action to be much more desirable.  I also found the speakers were OK for typical dittling around playing, and the RCA out was a plus.

So there's my experience.  My biggest piece of advice to anybody looking to buy a new stage piano, GO AND PLAY THEM!  I must have read every review on the net of every stage piano I could find.  They give you good things to look for, but you won't truely know the piano for you until you play one.  And I don't mean playing a couple chords.  You have to sit there, and play.  If I didn't take the ES3 home with me, I probably would have bought it.  Because I had the opportunity to play it a lot, I decided the lighter action wasn't what I wanted in the long run.

[goose]

Thanks for sharing your experiences (do we call you Mr Ruder? Or just Bit?).

Glad you found what you're looking for. I'm thinking about a new stage piano, too. The P120 is high on the list. The P250 would be as well, if I could (a) find one to try and (b) afford it.

One note, though. I've had a Roland EP9 since 1996. And I've never had any problems with it. Just thought I'd mention that in Roland's defence. However, the light action and weak sounds are no longer a serious option (but that's 1996 for you).

Best,
Goose

[hahad]

I just purchased the P120 also . I got a pretty good deal from Guitar Center. For $1099 I got the paino, the Yamaha stand, an adjustable bench and headphones. I really looked into a lot of pianos before I purchased this one. My main goals for purchasing a digital piano were to get one with great action, MIDI out and decent sound. The reason I say only decent sound is that I like to rely on my computer for producing high quality samples. For example, go purchase GarageBand and Ivory (if you have a mac) and compare the outputed sound to the P120 and Ivory will blow you away. It's no wonder though since each piano is like 3.5Gigs of data. Even compare Ivory to some of Yamaha's high end Clavinova's (those in the $5k+ range) and Ivory will still win by large margins. You just can't compete with the raw computing and data storage of computers today.

I must say I really like Yamaha's digital piano action. I have played a lot of their digital pianos and am 100% convinced all the actions are the same. This includes the P60, P90, P120, P250, PF500, PF1000, Clavinova CLP130 and Clavinova CLP150. I have also played a Kawai digital but just didn't like the action that much even though it has wooden keys. I find the Yamaha action to match the couple of acoustic pianos I have played better.

The other reason I purchased this piano was its number of features for the price. I wanted a Clavinova CLP130 or CLP150 at first. However, those run $2200 and $2800 respectively and you are mostly paying for the enclosure and when it comes to the CLP150 a slightly better sound. However, I couldn't justify paying more for the CLP150 when something like Ivory beats it hands down in sound quality (trust me you will be blown away by Ivory :-)). Here is a list of why I purchased the P120 over the Clavinova:

- The closest Clavinova in comparison to the P120 is twice the price and you are paying for the enclosure and slightly better sound. I even think you are paying more for the commission they have to pay their sales people. I think you have to get these pianos at a Yamaha only dealer/showroom.
- P120 is 64 polyphony and CLP130 is 64 so you are really only paying for the enclousre, some better recording capabilities and two more pedals.
- P120 has 3step AWS just like the expensive CLP150. CLP130 does not.
- P120 supports half and soft pedaling and even has another input for an AUX pedal for Sostenuto. The CLP130 does not support half pedaling but the CLP150 does. Again, P120 wins in value.
- All have MIDI out so you can really replace the sound quality of any of these pianos with a much much much more sophisticated sample libraries (i.e. Ivory). So, there isn't much point in spending a lot on a digital piano just for slightly better sounds.
- P120's action is the same as all the Clavinovas

One downside so the P120 is the Wattage on the built in speakers. They are 12Watt while the Clavinova's are up to 30-40Watts. This does make a big difference in the loudness of the sound. However, I compared the two and find that when the Clavinova is set on high volume its way too loud. I really find 12Watts to be a good happy medium. And again, this can always be circumvented with external speakers or external speakers on your computer. If you go to a Guitar Center just compare the P250 to the P120 and decide if it loud enough. The P250 has 30Watt speakers I believe. I think you will also find that when the P250 is turned up very loud it becomes distorted. I haven't noticed that with the P120.

Now I could have just gone with the cheaper P60 and used my computer for quality sound. But for the price difference you can't honestly justify getting the P60. The piano only has 32 polyphony and 8Watt speakers. It also has limited pedaling support, definitely no half pedaling. There are just those times (more often than I realized) when you get home and just want to play without turning on the computer and setting things up. Thats when your glad you spent a little more for better sound and higher quality pedaling.

If there was anything I could change about the P120 it would be the look. It's by no means ugly. However, I think a more updated feel could be given to it. Maybe they could replace the fake wood panel with an all black plastic piece. But then again the Clavinovas look a little dated also...but maybe thats a good thing...

Hope this long post was helpful! Ask me more questions if you like. I have spent a lot of time researching digital pianos (Yamaha mostly now that I'm addicted to the action) and wouldn't mind answering questions I didn't already cover.

[jeremyjchilds]

Way to go...nice keyboard, I have a triton, and I went for a yamaha as well for my stage keyboard, I use the triton sequencer every day, but when I play dinners, I always use the yamaha.

[Ruro]

Please, just try and keep your calm until you reach the end of my post, although I'm sorry I can't >_<

My keyboard sucks; no pedal, no weighted keys, not enough octaves, and there isn't enough space between the black keys like a normal piano, hence it's designed for rock or synthesizing generally or something crazy (fireworks noises? Who needs that?!).
I need to buy a piano, CHRIST, they are expensive, and if it's second hand, it's dirt cheap, but then you need to pay technicians to fix it up, tune it *coughs* LOTS OF MONEY *coughs*
Then there is some 1/2 year fee of doing something weird and healthy to it which costs like £500 or something, NO NO NO.

Scuse my bluntness, but I have been at this all day and I'm annoyed.
Sorry again, because I have to turn to a Clavinova/Digital Stage Piano because they don't really require costly maintenance, only a one time cost of purchasing it. I just read in another thread they aren't worth it due to they don't carry "variating tones" or something, ARGH, what are they good for!?

If that is just finicky talk, then I am still going ahead and purcashing one of these. I know... these is where you all wanna kill me, but I have extremely limited budget, and the best thing I can find is the Casio Privia PX-300.
Yeah, Casio, even one of the guys who reviewed this product because he brought it said:
"Don't mock Casio, cause for this price, and amazing product quality, you should burn in depths of mount doom for mocking it" or something similar, this is from Amazon.

My point being by this post... am I making the right decision? I have found one which costs £410 and it's barely reasonable for my budget >_< And I would like one soon, because my Piano Practise is now at a stand still :/

Thanks for reading my insane post, but your replies will be welcome (unless your flaming me about Casio!)

EDIT: Here's that Amazon page I was on about:
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002FOTOG/sr=1-13/qid=1120513324/ref=sr_1_13/103-5240924-8015060?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=11970011&s=musical-instruments&v=glance
Sure they could be making it up, but the chances of that are slim really :/

[journeyyourmind]

I practice all the time on a P120, IMO, for the price, the best you can get for a digital piano. There are of course those with better action, but not for the price, I'd say it's more than enough for a digital piano, if you go too expensive, you might as well start considering in the price range of a real piano, used or new depending on quality of course.

[ranakor]

i don't know about casio (never tried them) but haven't heard of them being on par with yamaha action wise so i suggest you stretch your buddget just a bit (to 500)

& get this: https://www.soundsmusical.com/product_details.asp?in=Piano/Keyboard&p=Yamaha%20P60%20Stage%20Piano&cl=Black

[Ruro]

OMG, After reading about the P120 and it's features last night, I was so annoyed.... such a great dream instrument and I could never afford it :/ Settling for that P60 though would be great! Everywhere I looked though, it costs way too much, but you seem to have found a nice price!

I decided, Until I get a job and have a chance of cash rolling in, I ain't gonna bust my bank, cause atm I could afford that, but be almost left with nothing when I still have to pay for a trip to france and these piano lessons I'm starting.

"Free UK mainland delivery" - They are based in the UK? With this price!?!? Usually the price rockets when you buy from the UK because they did the Importing from America for you :/ Atleast that's the way I see it.

But thankyou ranakor! I owe you big time ^_^

And... I was going to buy one second hand brand new the Casio, these guys have the darn thing brand new for the SAME PRICE, lol, the insanity of the world. Omg, the P90 looks so much sleaker Thanks again!

[Floristan]

I have a P120, like it a lot, went through much the same shopping experience as Bitruder and came to the same conclusions.  It's a very, very nice keyboard with good feel, and the main piano voice is excellent as well.  The P120 also allows for half-pedaling with the sustaining pedal, which was a plus for me.

I've heard from others as well that if you hook up the P120 to a computer, use the P120 as the midi input, and then use one of the great piano sample libraries that are out there...well the possibilities are amazing.

[hahad]

OMG, After reading about the P120 and it's features last night, I was so annoyed.... such a great dream instrument and I could never afford it :/ Settling for that P60 though would be great! Everywhere I looked though, it costs way too much, but you seem to have found a nice price!

I decided, Until I get a job and have a chance of cash rolling in, I ain't gonna bust my bank, cause atm I could afford that, but be almost left with nothing when I still have to pay for a trip to france and these piano lessons I'm starting.

"Free UK mainland delivery" - They are based in the UK? With this price!?!? Usually the price rockets when you buy from the UK because they did the Importing from America for you :/ Atleast that's the way I see it.

But thankyou ranakor! I owe you big time ^_^

And... I was going to buy one second hand brand new the Casio, these guys have the darn thing brand new for the SAME PRICE, lol, the insanity of the world. Omg, the P90 looks so much sleaker Thanks again!

I really hope you at least go with the P60 Ruro. I tried that one out also and the action is just as good as any $5k+ Yamaha Clavinova. I really think that is one of the most important things when your learning the piano. The stiff action of the Yamahas will build muscle in the right places. When you finally get a job and more money you can always sell your P60 for a better model of Yamaha as they retain their value well. I think you could get $400 on ebay for it if you sell it in good condition. Let us know how it goes.

[Ruro]

I really hope you at least go with the P60 Ruro. I tried that one out also and the action is just as good as any $5k+ Yamaha Clavinova. I really think that is one of the most important things when your learning the piano. The stiff action of the Yamahas will build muscle in the right places. When you finally get a job and more money you can always sell your P60 for a better model of Yamaha as they retain their value well. I think you could get $400 on ebay for it if you sell it in good condition. Let us know how it goes.

Will do
Infact, I asked my mum yesterday because I am just busting to play a TUNED piano or digital piano (after my mum's friends one sounded like a dying cat!). Today I played at the school where my mum works, a Yamaha Clavinova, didn't pick up the model, but it was VERY sweet, good practise before my now arranged first piano lesson this saturday *bit nervous*
Thanks for your experience Hahad ^_^ I'm going straight to the P90!
*Visiting Chappells Of Bond Street soon to test one out!*

[hahad]

Will do
Infact, I asked my mum yesterday because I am just busting to play a TUNED piano or digital piano (after my mum's friends one sounded like a dying cat!). Today I played at the school where my mum works, a Yamaha Clavinova, didn't pick up the model, but it was VERY sweet, good practise before my now arranged first piano lesson this saturday *bit nervous*
Thanks for your experience Hahad ^_^ I'm going straight to the P90!
*Visiting Chappells Of Bond Street soon to test one out!*

Do you have a sound system or computer to hook up the P90 too? I don't think it has built in speakers and you would be forced to use headphones which is a shame. Maybe you should just go for the P120

[Ruro]

lol?! You know what.... I never realised that I do have a computer... way upstairs in my room, and this will be in the conservatory. Crikey almighty... guess this really is aimed at the Pros ^_^;;

And you know what, if those 2 rectangle things on the top of the P120 are speakers... they sure are small! Are they even worthy of carrying the instruments fine sound? An extra £65 for speakers... ¬_¬ And probably a ton of features I will never use... OR save £175 and get speakers with less features (presumably)?

I'm not a pro, but I play alot, is it worth spending so much money on the P120 over the P60?

[xvimbi]

I'm not a pro, but I play alot, is it worth spending so much money on the P120 over the P60?

Probably yes. Check carefully into the pedalling capabilities of both instruments (it should say in the manuals). I am not sure right now, but it could be that one has only a single pedal setting (either on or off), whereas the other one reads out the pedal in 128 steps, which would allow for half-pedalling and the likes, techniques that are absolutely indispensible for advanced piano playing.

[thalberg]

You also will want to check if it has a special setting for playing diminished unisons and negative intervals.

[Ruro]

You also will want to check if it has a special setting for playing diminished unisons and negative intervals.

Farkin hell, I dunno what you just said, but it might be able to I just visited Connexions, and straight after that; Chappells!
Played the P60 and P120... P60 literally has like 3 buttons on it, features is NOT it's fortey. I love the P120 for the Dual Track feature, I could play the Prok PC1 by myself that way With the money I have already and my future job, I think I will go all out, buy the best available! But I will do a little more research into it ^_^;;

And thankyou Xvimbi, It always seemed like its either "On" or "Off" with the pedals on older instruments, I guess your suggesting this is capable of varying pressures? And thankyou to Thalberg... I'll uh... try and incorperate that in my research ^_^;;

[xvimbi]

Farkin hell, I dunno what you just said, but it might be able to I just visited Connexions, and straight after that; Chappells!...
 And thankyou to Thalberg... I'll uh... try and incorperate that in my research ^_^;;

Don't waste your time. He was just trying to be facetious and wanted to show off his scholarly prowess

[Baohui]

P120 vs. P60:

• Better piano sound
• Few more sounds (you probably won't use these)
• Four reverbs, a few effects (P60 only has one reverb)
• EQ slider (adjust brightness of the sound)
• LED display
• Half pedalling support (the pedal comes with it)
• Support for another pedal - una corda/sostenuto
• 2x12.5W speakers vs. 2x8W
• 2 track sequencer
• Metronome

[hahad]

P120 vs. P60:

• Better piano sound
• Few more sounds (you probably won't use these)
• Four reverbs, a few effects (P60 only has one reverb)
• EQ slider (adjust brightness of the sound)
• LED display
• Half pedalling support (the pedal comes with it)
• Support for another pedal - una corda/sostenuto
• 2x12.5W speakers vs. 2x8W
• 2 track sequencer
• Metronome

Yes, the P120 has 64 polyphony compared to the P60's 32 polyphony. This can really help to make sure no notes are dropped while playing. Also, the P120 has a 3 step dynamic range when it comes to hitting keys. This means 3 different samples are used when varying the velocity of the key press. The P60 only has one sample. Also, the P120's speakers may look small, but are very loud. They are also placed well in the keyboard so you do get a slight vibrartion on the keys when playing; somewhat like the same feedback a real piano gives you. And yes the Half pedaling really helps if you have reached that level of play. Making the choice between a P60 and P120 may be hard since you can always hook up the P60 to a computer for better sound. But note that having to use a computer can get annoying at times because of all the setup. And having to rely on external speakers or headphones is also annoying. And think of the extra cost it will be if your computer is not fast enough and you have latency issues or have enough space for good piano sample playback. I also don't know how you will get around the half pedaling with the P60.  If you are thinking about the P90 I would just go with the P120 for the small extra it may cost. Check out www.emusicgear.com. Last I checked they had the P120 with stand, bench, and headphones for like $1299. Shipping was also free.

[thalberg]

Farkin hell, I dunno what you just said

Sorry, Ruro--I was just trying to joke a little with  xvimbi.