John Cage: What is the name of this stuff?

[m1469]

I am trying to remember the name to a John Cage piece where I think it is played on an organ and they just set a brick or something on the pedal for about a year or something... and then somebody goes in and changes the note...?  Does anybody know what I am talking about and know the name of the piece?

Also, generally, what is the name for the kind of music that a person composes that cannot be played or realized because it is unplayable?  It only exists in theory or in the imagination... I can't remember and it is driving me bananas !

Thanks,

m1469

[Bob]

https://www.ektopia.co.uk/ektopia/archives/2004/07/07/organaslsp

“On February 5, 2003, the first three notes of John Cage’s Organ˛/ASLSP were played on the organ of St. Burchardi Church in Halberstadt, Germany. However, the performance actually began at the stroke of midnight, September 5, 2001, what would have been Cage’s 89th birthday. And it began with 1 1/2 years of silence.”

ASLSP stands for ‘As Slow As Possible’ and it’s just that, it’s due to finish in the year 2640! If we were listening now we would have to wait till July 5, 2005 just to hear the forth and fifth notes.

[dinosaurtales]

I am trying to decide if that isn't just the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  Isn't he the same guy who "wrote" that "piece" where the pianist just sits there? 

Did he actually study music?  Is he a comedian or something?  What's the deal with him - i.e why do we care what he does?  It's useless, from what I can tell?

[Bob]

He's serious.

I think it's more about the concepts.  Thinking about the ideas behind the work.

I have heard a recording of him saying he doesn't know a thing about harmony.  I guess there are lots of different kinds of composers.

[dinosaurtales]

I would be willing to guess that he doesn't know anything about harmony, or music in general, 'cause from what I can tell he doesn't actually write any.

[m1469]

conceptual music !!! that's what I was trying to think of... right?  The general name for that style of music ... I love it 

[Goldberg]

I think Cage is pretty neat in his ability to make us look at music completely differently. Who are we to say that "silence" (which turns out not to be silence afterall) is not music? Afterall, in a full concert hall, without music occuring--but still with a focus onstage--there will invariably be an extraordinarily complex collective "improvisation" from the audience, supremely spontaneous in design and conception. What's more--and this is related to the sound--it explores a certain awkward emotion which is not ever unearthed in music another way, that is, the uncomfortability of grand silence in the presence of others. People will be tempted to talk and move about to clear the feeling, and as time grows on they will grow even more restless, all on account of the musician on the stage, who by that point would have a remarkable command over them.

His sonatas and interludes for prepared piano are also, believe it or not, worth checking into. They have the neat result of becoming, as he said, percussion ensembles for a single person.

The general consensus, however, amongst supporters of Cage, is that we like him not as a musical composer but as a musical philosopher who tends to challenge how we think of normality and expectation and what we can do to oppose such things.

[greyrune]

Yeah his ideas are interesting, though i'm not sure he deserved all the recognition he got.  He did write some actual music too though.  There's a peice for piano where you have to stick paperclips and bit of rubber on the strings to make wierd noises, apparently it's quite cool, but i've never heard it.  The only peice i ever "heard" was a school performance of 4:33, the best bit was when they all turned the page at the same time, nice little touch i thought.

[hodi]

i think his ideas are just gimmicks..

[Etude]

I remember hearing of a piece where the performer has to juice vegetables and drink the juice onstage, and that was the piece!   

There's a peice for piano where you have to stick paperclips and bit of rubber on the strings to make wierd noises, apparently it's quite cool, but i've never heard it.

Yep, the prepared piano.  Listen to some samples from:

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000JMYM/qid=1117717535/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl15/104-6493105-5095108?v=glance&s=classical&n=507846

These are the sonatas and interludes. 

These pieces sound completely different on different pianos however,
listen to the corresponding samples from:

 https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000000NZ3/qid=1117717535/sr=8-7/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i7_xgl15/104-6493105-5095108?v=glance&s=classical&n=507846

Cage also wrote a piece called "In a Landscape" for a normal piano, which is probably the most conventional piece he wrote. 

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003EL7/qid=1117717847/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-6493105-5095108 

It's the first piece in the samples.

I found some bits of ASLSP:  The original piano version which is much quicker and shorter, and the start of the 639 year long performance:

https://www.npr.org/programs/pt/features/2003/sep/aslsp.html

They are under the image of the organ

[Kassaa]

I heard someone playing a John Cage piece for prepared piano. It sounded quite cool

[Lance Morrison]

I think Cage is pretty neat in his ability to make us look at music completely differently. Who are we to say that "silence" (which turns out not to be silence afterall) is not music? Afterall, in a full concert hall, without music occuring--but still with a focus onstage--there will invariably be an extraordinarily complex collective "improvisation" from the audience, supremely spontaneous in design and conception. What's more--and this is related to the sound--it explores a certain awkward emotion which is not ever unearthed in music another way, that is, the uncomfortability of grand silence in the presence of others. People will be tempted to talk and move about to clear the feeling, and as time grows on they will grow even more restless, all on account of the musician on the stage, who by that point would have a remarkable command over them.

His sonatas and interludes for prepared piano are also, believe it or not, worth checking into. They have the neat result of becoming, as he said, percussion ensembles for a single person.

The general consensus, however, amongst supporters of Cage, is that we like him not as a musical composer but as a musical philosopher who tends to challenge how we think of normality and expectation and what we can do to oppose such things.

Goldberg, you said everything I would have said

when Cage was young and living in L.A., he became Arnold Schönberg's pupil.....however, I don't think his attempts to write rather atonally are very successful (such as certain moments in the s & i for prepared piano), since they just sound like chromatic noodling.....yet many of the other pieces from the set are wonderful. Not all of his prepared piano pieces are worth listening to, however. Cage could definately write fine melody and harmony when he wanted to, despite what people like Schönberg said.....it just happened to be of an unconventional type more in line with someone like Debussy.

I wanted to post an mp3 of a piece of his

[raymagini]

I would be willing to guess that he doesn't know anything about harmony, or music in general, 'cause from what I can tell he doesn't actually write any.

i guess along those same lines chopin didnt know anything about fugues since he only wrote one and its not very popular...

o wait didnt he memoerize all the p&f in the WTC??

just cause you dont write in a particualr style doesnt mean that you are ignorant of how to

[Daevren]

Cage was more of a philosopher than a musician.

I don't take him too seriously.

[Chrysalis]

what gradelevel is 4:33.... I want to try that one for my retical.... does anybody have sheetmusic from that piece?

thanks in advance

[Etude]

You don't need the sheetmusic, it just has a foreword and a contents page which says tacet under each of the 3 movement titles.  The piece doesn't have to last 4 minutes and 33 seconds.  I think it also says that you have to determine the length and the movement lengths by a chance procedure. 

I would imagine it is not technically very difficult, but intellectually, it is one of the most challenging pieces to perform.