Holding down notes with the pedal?

[6ft 4]

I watched a performance of Chopin's Raindrop Prelude on BBC Four a couple of days ago and noticed that the pianist didnt hold down certain notes/chords that he was supposed to and instead sort of sprung his arm up in an attempt to look impressive/artistic. However since he had the sustaining pedal down it didnt seem to make a difference to the sound, i mean it wasnt staccato or anything just not held on for as long as the sheet music suggests.

So i was wondering does it make a difference if notes are held on by the fingers when the sustaining pedal is down? I find it very odd that a professional pianist would not do so if it did make a difference.

It very tempting when sight reading Bach for example to use the pedal since it does make the aspect of holding down sustained notes that much easier....

[faulty_damper]

It doesn't make a difference if your fingers are depressing the keys which will hold the damper off the strings while your foot is holding it off the strings.  When you apply the damper, it raises all the dampers even the ones your fingers were playing.  But only your fingers can raise individual dampers.

[greyrune]

i'm not sure, i mean i really don't know much about the mechanics of the piano.  I know little hammers hit little bits of metal and that's about as far as it goes.  But i think it does make some difference.  A while ago i learned a slow, legato octave passage and played it just with 1 and 5 the whole time, didn't really think of anything else and yeah the notes are held over whith the pedal down.  But when i took the peice to my teacher she told me that the passage sounded a bit chopy and told me to play 1-5 then 1-4, and sometimes 1-3 so that the upper fingers were playing legato as much as possible.  Even though the pedal was down it still sounded smoother, so i think it does make some difference whether you actually hold the key down.

[berrt]

So i was wondering does it make a difference if notes are held on by the fingers when the sustaining pedal is down? I find it very odd that a professional pianist would not do so if it did make a difference.

It surely makes a big difference: With the pedal down all strings vibrate "sympathetically", only holding the keys makes a cleaner, sober sound.

Berrt

[6ft 4]

Well thats cleared that up thanks

[quantum]

A few points:

A tone has three basic moments in it's lifespan
1) attack
2) body
3) decay

Everything you do in preperation to strike a key on the piano affects it's tone. 

You cannot change the characterists of the "body" of a tone with the fingers once you have pressed the key. 

You can change the characterists of the "body" of a note by introducing pedal.  As mentioned by Berrt, it introduces sympathetic vibration of other strings. 

---

What about the difference between striking a note with pedal and keeping your finger on the key, versus strinking a note with pedal then removing your finger while holding the note with pedal?  Yes they do sound different, but why? 

I have done a bit of experimentation with this.  Many teachers say that leaving your hands on the keys, gives more focus to the tone as opposed to holding the note with just the pedal.  They are correct in saying this.  Remember you can't change a tone with your fingers after you have struck a note, so why does leaving your finger on the key sound different?  It is not the fact that you have left you hand on the key that changes the tone, but rather the mentality of your prepration before you strike a note. 

I have noticed that we prepare to strike notes differently weather we indend to pedal them or not.  If we intend to pedal, we know that the pedal will support a lot of the note's body and we compensate, by playing a bit less (this is a bit hard to describe).  If we intend not to pedal, then we intentionally strike the note with more focus knowing that our fingers are supporting the full weight of the tone.  Thus when we strike a note with pedal and intention to hold it we are actually using more focus in the preperation to strike, as opposed just tapping the key and letting the pedal do the rest. 

I hope that made some sense 

[rhapsody in orange]

I hope that made some sense 

Yes, you do make sense.
It is the same as playing golf or any racket games. The follow-through of the swing would technically have no effect on how the golf ball is going to travel, but we still do that as it affects the way we are going to hit the ball.

[happyface94]

When you use the sustain pedal, the other chords of the same frequency couple will vibrate a bit. Since instrument vibration comes from the harmonic serie (1/2,1/3,1/4) which oscillate in the air, holding notes will prevent those more grandiose and meddle sound. (Other notes that are "harmonic" to the chord will vibrate in a small way too). Remember, the piano is so wonderful there are multiple ways to make sounds. (Should you hold your pedal before striking the chord, or after the strike by holding it a bit)

However, I can't think of why it would matter if you have your pedal pressed, if you hold your note, or softly remove it.

My teacher actually believes it makes a difference which finger hits a key. Example : the ending of the Brahm's Klavierstucke op119, the first intermezzo, the ending chord makes your fingers cross (Following Brahm's partition). However, it is entirely possible to play them uncrossed. But my teacher insist that I cross my fingers because it makes a different sound by the hand positioning, and which hand strikes a key etc.

[GrahamOz]

You learn the most by doing.

A very simple demonstration:

depress the C below middle without sounding it - then play middle C -- > G --> C above it (legato, staccato whatever, then release).

Play the same C,G,C as a chord (loudly), then quickly depress the C (below middle) without sounding it, and release the chord.

Note the ressonance in both situations.

Of course this is a very simple example, but I think it applies to the question in general about using the damper pedal (and differences in tone/sound production).  I would guess you could see the possibilites arising - using the damper pedal may produce ressonance, and resultant sound, that you may not wish for.

Is this what you were inquiring about?

[6ft 4]

indeed it is thanks