Fugues (again)

[steinwayguy]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but my take on "the learning process" is...

1. Identify subject, countersubjects, episodes etc.
2. Write out each voice separately
3. Finger the entire fugue
4. Practice each voice separately until they are each almost second-nature
5. Practice hands separately
6. Finally put hands together


Is that ok?

Sorry I'm just reallllly obsessing over this a minor fugue from the WTC book 1

[Rach3]

I wouldn't know. My procedure for fugues is in completely different order from yours -

1) Read through fugue (both hands) several times till I can play it.
2) Figure out awkward fingerings.
3) Knowing how it sounds, do basic fugal analysis, finding all those sneaky entrances.
4) Hard part - figure out all the counterpoint. I find it more helpful, rather than practicing one voice at a time, practicing with all voices presentexcept one, internalizing the missing voice and how it relates to everything else. It's a habit I picked up from playing the organ.
5) Listen to Gould's recording. Try to imitate Gould.
6) Spend rest of life undoing damage caused by imitiating Gould's eccentricities.
7) Find a balanced, correct interpretation. Read a book or something.

PS - I wouldn't bother actually writing out the voices by hand (your #2) - it doesn't lend any new insights.

edit: forget to mention there's a really good web page out there detailing each of the Bach WTC fugues, I don't remember where it is but I think it's https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/bachindex.html. I think it's the one with a "graph" of each fugue showing the voices as horizontal bars - it's fully interactive and links to a score. I'm sure it's been mentioned on the forum before?

-Rach3

[happyface94]

My method is different, it reads like this :

1) Learn the fugue with absolutly all of the note holding, with essentially the right fingering. (Very slow if necessary)

2) Know where all the voices begin, those are important.

3) Add expression, speed, and memory.

I believe practicing each voice and hand seperate are required "after" those initial steps, they're to keep you sharper. I believe they're there to improve your fugue, not to learn it.

[faulty_damper]

The main difficulty with playing a fugue is being able to keep track of all voices so that one or more voices are not being "harmonic filler".

Writing out individual voices are helpful so that you know how the voices fit together and when voices interact, you will know if you are "voice-crossing" or playing voices at the same dynamic level.  But writing out voices is completely useless if you do not study the voices and apply them when actually practicing/playing.

Which fugue is it?

[happyface94]

Is it the fugue written with like 7 #, where the prelude is written with like 7 b? There's so many things happening in that one, that I have to draw some [ everytime a voice starts, and therE's so many.

[steinwayguy]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but my take on "the learning process" is...

1. Identify subject, countersubjects, episodes etc.
2. Write out each voice separately
3. Finger the entire fugue
4. Practice each voice separately until they are each almost second-nature
5. Practice hands separately
6. Finally put hands together


Is that ok?

Sorry I'm just reallllly obsessing over this a minor fugue from the WTC book 1

and my friend told me the other day "you know you're playing like the longest and most difficult fugue"


 

[happyface94]

Haha, I thought that was a typo.

Yeah, not too much alterations. 4 voice, which is hard, 6 pages in my Henle edition... Be sure to have the right fingering and the phrases (note holding etc)  before starting anything else.

[chopinisque]

I'm no expert but from what I'd learned from all those posts about contrapuntal works on this forum, my list would be (the original with a few editions):

1. Identify subject, countersubjects, episodes etc.
2. Finger the entire fugue
 - write out the subjects and countersubjects leaving out all other notes (one stave for each voice if necessary)
 - master the subjects and countersubjects, treating them as if they were the main points of the story
3. Write out each voice separately (I wouldn't bother writing it separately.  I would just add notes to the skeleton so you end up with one voice on each stave.  But that would just be me.  Be sure to notice the relationships between two subjects/countersubjects and vertical relationships between voices.)
4. Practice each voice separately until they ARE second-nature
 - combine voices with every combination
5. Practice hands separately
6. Finally put hands together

It's actually mostly from the topic by Bernhard about teaching 2 part inventions.  Works wonders.

Good luck with that fugue. 

[lostinidlewonder]

After sectioning up the music in its parts, hands together instantly.

That is even what I make my students do. You will crack it much faster from my experience. It is very hard to hear how voices are moving around the hands if you play single hands.

It is also hard to hear what is not naturally as easy to maintain in the entire body of sound if there is no other notes to compare a SH to. You only fully appreciate what you have to do physically to produce the controlled sound of the entire body of notes if you play BH in Fugues.

Unlike other music which can be taken SH, I feel you just cant do it with in Fugues since they are an entire body of sound, not just melodies which have to be played together.

[faulty_damper]

and my friend told me the other day "you know you're playing like the longest and most difficult fugue"


 

Longest fugue in premièr livre - B minor
Most complex in premièr livre - A minor

Which one is it?

[steinwayguy]

Longest fugue in premièr livre - B minor
Most complex in premièr livre - A minor

Which one is it?

Well I suppose it's just the most complex then.