Chopin 2nd Piano Concerto.

[ralessi]

Can anyone (or all of you) give me the lowdown on the 2nd piano concerto?  I have been listening to the hell out of it lately and I think that it is a brilliant piece! DEFINATELY one of my favorite Concerti.   I had never listened to it because, the first one is bad, and everyone always says how bad the Chopin concerti are (because of the Orchestration).  I actually love the orchestration.  I think its a great piece all around.  And as far as playing it, I proposed it to my teacher (fingers crossed) and was wondering how this would compare to his larger works (ballades, scherzi, sonatas, ect)  it doesnt sound as difficult as his sonatas but i could be wrong! thanks all!

Cheers!
Ricky

[Goldberg]

Do you mean his REAL second concerto or the one that is universally known as his second concerto?

--at least, universally known outside of internet piano forums that is. Everyone here knows that the "1st" in E minor was written second and so on; actually, the e minor concerto is a better composition, imho, though I do prefer the thematic material in the f minor (of course it's very hard to resist the gorgeous second movement of the 1st--given as the e minor concerto to avoid confusion--but on the other hand the 2nd concerto isn't so shabby there either!). I don't really enjoy either concerto greatly, however, and my appreciation of them has actually diminished as I've grown as a pianist. That included a more acute enjoyment of the first concerto than before, but also a mutual demise of enjoyment for both.

The fact is, they really are weak as *compositions*, at least as far as Chopin goes (obviously there are other composers from his time who are hardly even worth mentioning, but he's above that). They remind me of his solo piano Rondos, the Barcarolle, Allegro de Concert (thank heavens he didn't turn that into a full-fledged concerto/concertino thing because it was shaping up like the real concerti), and to a lesser extent his sonatas. Chopin didn't work well in large-scale structures and excelled in concise piano writing ranging from miniature pieces to medium-sized stories.

Curiously, I enjoy his variations for piano and orchestra and Fantasy in A major much more than either of the concerti. The first is his second best set of variations, following the Variations Brillantes, and the second is an excellent reflection of what is generally excepted as Chopin/Polish style music with regards to its material, rhythmic constructions (which are, I agree, also nicely present in the concerti and the Rondos for that matter) and so on; plus, as a Fantasy, it succeeds more as an impromptu, loosely-constructed piece that doesn't rely on, well, structure to excel. I really believe it's a different story with the piano concerti.

I don't think that really helps, and I sound like everyone else who's criticised the concerti before (as you already mentioned) but I thought I'd toss my opinion out there...

[happyface94]

If you mean that the E minor was bad, you need to rethink. At least the first mouvement has a wonderful piano composition. The F minor is great too, I've sight read the first few pages and it is great.

Btw, I don't think you understand what people mean when they say that he has a weak orchestration. They don't mean the Orchestra intro, or the small piano pauses of Orchestra, they mean as a whole, if you look at Rach's 2nd Concerto 1rst mov, the Orchestra is actually important while the piano does his thing. The Orchestra is merely as an accompany for Chopin's.

I'm wishing to play the piece completly too, or the E minor. Depending on your skill level I guess. ( I think you need to be able to play his popular Scherzo , skill wise at least to try the F minor).

[steinwayguy]

I absolutely adore the F Minor Concerto and prefer it over the E Minor. I've heard both concerti described as "all of the Etudes into one piece". You'll find sixths, thirds, arpeggios and about everything else in these pieces. Either one is more than worthwhile to learn, but you wont' get too many orchestra gigs... . The concerti are both (it seems to me) like 100 pages of passage work, so I personally have stayed away from them.

[ralessi]

MAN! im getting more than i bargained for on this one! Goldberg im talking about his F minor concerto btw.  I understand about the orchestration, it doesnt fit will..its just kind of there as a backup and almost like they take turns, much like his Variations on the Don Juan.  (i think that another great example next to the Rach is the Liszt 2nd piano concerto!) anyways! thank you all for your replies and i hope to hear more!

Cheers!
Ricky