Joplin, Scott and Paradies

[ted]

I do not know where my love of ragtime sprang from. I was never taught it; it was one idiom my teacher was no good at. I have written a lot of it and I never tire of its archaic sensuality. Unlike most people I hear an undercurrent of something very profound and moving in its simple rhythmic counterpoint - something which goes far beyond the popping of champagne corks in saloons.

[lostinidlewonder]

I love ragtime, when you play it i think you can't help but feel very happy and have your spirits uplifted. In Perth city there is always this man who plays Ragtime on an old upright piano. I would sit there and watch him play, Lh bouncing all over the place and then he's looking at someone talking with them ignoring his hands!

You play the rags in a very controlled fashion. For instance in the Maple leaf, there is opportunity for variation in sound of the low Lh bass, or the accented strike on the strong beats of the Rh melody like especaily when the Lh upper chord comes togther with the RH. You can keep the Rh louder than the chords in the Lh as it comes together so it will not sound so balanced.

Then in the second part, the Lh has some new bass voices. like Daa cha, Daa cha, Daa cha, DAA DAA Daa cha, Daa cha, Daa cha, DAA DAA Daa cha,.... etc. Where the Daa is the lower bass notes and the cha is the chords you move your Lh up to. I think those are real interesting to bring out the two differences, not keep so controlled. That is how I've heard this guy play in the city since I was a kid and what he suggested to me.

You play the rags in a very good "background" music style. It isn't something that is going to disturb listeners or make them pay complete attention to the music. I think this is the style which also makes the music sound very brooding. The more accenuation and intensity in rhythmic and beat you make, the increased excitement is added to the music and detail in the sound so it becomes more "peformance" music then.

[ted]

That's right. It's true I always aim for a subdued and subtle effect. Interesting that those accents were not coming out because at the time (this morning) I thought I was getting them. I shall work on it. Thanks for your ideas.

Perhaps the pianist you mention is John Gill - I think he lives in Perth. He's a very good stride and ragtime player. On the other hand it may not be because I think Gill plays little except his own improvisations on popular tunes.

[Derek]

Who wrote that toccatta? I really like it

::edit:: sorry, I thought you had misspelled Paradise

[ted]

Paradies, Pietro Domenico - 1707-1791

[nanabush]

I love maple leaf rag, but I havn't really played extensively, and always mess up royally the big leaps.. You play it really well!

[beach]

Sounds great!  I'm a beginner and I hope I will get to play that well someday.  Thanks for sharing...it's inspiring.

[llamaman]

Do you have The Entertainer. I'm going to start learning that piece soon.

[rachmaninov uk]

ted maple leaf is really great! i tried learning the first few bars of that piece but i just can't seem to play it in time! its so annoying. can i ask how long you've been playing and do you take lessons etc

[ted]

rachmaninov uk:

I am fifty-seven. I had only two teachers, one from around seven to ten and the other from about fourteen to twenty. Since then I have gone my own way in the fullest sense of the words. The problem you describe is not readily solved on a forum. I suggest finding a teacher who is experienced with ragtime. Aside from that there are plenty of CDs by good players around - Rifkin, Arpin, Kirby, Neilsen, Jenks.... Places such as Ragtime Express and Amazon have a reasonable selection. Buy one or two perhaps and follow how they play.

Llamaman:

Sorry, I didn't realise you had asked a question. Do you mean have I recorded it ? No, I intend to record and post more ragtime but at the moment I am working on other things.

[rachmaninov uk]

rachmaninov uk:

I am fifty-seven. I had only two teachers, one from around seven to ten and the other from about fourteen to twenty. Since then I have gone my own way in the fullest sense of the words. The problem you describe is not readily solved on a forum. I suggest finding a teacher who is experienced with ragtime. Aside from that there are plenty of CDs by good players around - Rifkin, Arpin, Kirby, Neilsen, Jenks.... Places such as Ragtime Express and Amazon have a reasonable selection. Buy one or two perhaps and follow how they play.

You're 57, ok that makes feel alot better lol i still have time. I just need to practice it i think. p.s i was in Auckland last year, went up the Sky Tower. Very nice

[ted]

Then you've one up on me, I'm ashamed to say ! I've never been there, would you believe. My wife has been to the casino in it a couple of times but I have no interest in gambling and everything there seems too pricey and posh for me. I'm a pretty basic, crude individual really - but good on you anyway.

[donjuan]

Thank you so much ted, for making me enjoy that maple leaf rag!  I have heard it many times before, but when you play it, I actually want to listen!  It is by far the best recording I have ever heard!  In every single case other than yours, the repetition is labourious and tedius to listen to, like I keep thinking "oh no, not again!", but in yours, it just flows so obviously, as if the music could not possibly go any other way.  I look forward to hearing more of your playing!

I understand where lostinidlewonder's comments come from, but I think this maple leaf rag is just meant for fun, and if it is played for anything more, it is overanalyzed and the fun is destroyed.  This sort of music SHOULD be in the background, in my opinion, because I always hear it being played on a honky tonk in some 19th centruy saloon.  I only enjoy pieces like this when they are not played in such a way to make the audience think too much.  After all, this isnt Rachmaninoff's piano concerto No.3.  Of course, if you played Rach 3 the way you played this ragtime, we would all be appalled..
donjuan

[ted]

I am pleased you enjoy it, donjuan. In fact I found lostinidlewonder's comments valuable, as I had not realised I had gradually neglected to accent the little groups of rhythmic counterpoint which are important to the life of ragtime. Unlike the classical music you mentioned, ragtime can easily cope with much spontaneous variation in phrasing - not even necessarily the same from day to day.

There's no danger of my playing Rachmaninoff. However, I might post some Chopin if I can work it up to an acceptable level. I surely intend to post more ragtime, perhaps contemporary ones too if I can get the permission of the composers.

[stephane]

Ted,

I just listenen to your maple leaf. It's very beautiful and it indeed makes one feel happy. Thanks for sharing it.

Last week I bought an easy version bundle of some Joplin songs. I'm working on the first part of "the entertainer". Maple leaf is the following on my Joplin list. I'd love to be able to play it the way you do. I really liked it. Still a lot of work to do I guess. I hope I get the entertainer ready for the end of August (music school restarts in September)


Best regards,

Stephane

[stephane]

Ted,

Also a question: how did you record this? The quality is pretty good.
I've tried some recordings with tapes or MP3 players but I get (of course) a lot of noise due to the proces and also background noise.

Regards,

Stephane

[ted]

Stephane:

I have a high quality Pioneer tape deck and a NAD CD recorder. I make tape recordings and then fill a CD with them. Mp3s can be generated from the CD on the computer. I have a single stereo microphone - fairly good quality but getting old now - which I dangle through that little brass loop on the underside of the fully opened lid of the piano so it hangs about six inches above the treble. Any further detail than that is probably only relevant for my lounge.

It took me a long time and much experiment to get all the settings optimal.

[stephane]

Ted,

Thanks for the info.
I might try the mic thing. I don't have a tape deck. I've been thinking about recording with my PC but it's not really a practical solution for me.

I've read somewhere (on PF) that using a video recorder to record sound also gives a good result so I might try that.

Best regards and keep enjoying Ragtime

Stephane

[jlh]

Stephane

If you have the ability to do so, I'd recommend experimenting with multiple mics placed at different parts of the room and finding a mix of them that sounds most natural.

Tape recorders (even when miked well) will always introduce unwanted noise because of the moving parts in the recorder.  This tape noise is difficult to filter out.  Also there is the fact that in transferring the audio from tape to a computer you have a "generation loss" in sound quality.  MP3 recorders are good, but realize that they don't record the full sound wave... they "cheat" in order to get a small file size.  If you have access to a wave CD recorder or can record directly to a computer you will have better quality.  Recording audio from a good mic to a video recorder is not a bad idea -- you can also try recording to the inputs on a good VCR if you have it.  MiniDisk recorders produce great results for the money as well.

You probably know all this already, but if not I hope it helps.

Best Wishes!

Josh

[namui]

I only have listened to Maple Leaf Rag and just want to say that it sounds great indeed.
Great articulation especially on the bass line, and great rhythmical feel.

namui

[ted]

I'm pleased you like it. Perhaps I should post more ragtime - I seem to play a lot of it.