Need help on choosing a baby grand piano (Yamaha C3, C2, or Steinwey M?)

[Christy]

I had been thinking about Yamaha C2 until I checked out C3 in the store.  I'm just starting to play piano.  My kids have been playing for years.  (We have a yamaha studio piano.)  I wanted C2 since I read some recommendation about getting at least 5 ft 8 in for a baby grand.  But to me, C3 sounds and feels a lot different from C2.  And since there's only 5 inches difference in length, I started getting more serious about C3.  Then I tried Steinwey M.  And I simply love it.  The touch and tone again is quite different from Yamaha.  But we didn't set our budget for that much for a baby grand    I feel I want to get it in the future ...  But for now, I probably would like to get a C3.

But I'm certainly not an expert in terms of playing or choosing a piano.  May I get  comparisons and advice for these three choices?

Thanks so much. 

[Axtremus]

Model M, C2, and C3 -- there is no bad piano among your three stated options. Just buy the one you like best within your budget. Good luck.

[Christy]

Thanks for your info.

In terms of quality, from a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate these three?
And do you think C3 is a lot better than C2? 

Thanks again.

[Axtremus]

Between C2 and C3, I like the C3 much better than the C2.

Between Model M and C3, I have mixed feeling. It depends a lot on how well the Model M has been prepared. In the past, I have found more variability among Model M's than I have among C3's. The good Model M's can be very good, the not-so-good Model M's are, well, not so good. Let's suppose one finds a competently prepared Model M that out-performs the C3, seeing the price difference, one still needs to ask whether the Model M is really worth more than twice the price of a C3. That is a matter of individual value judgment that only you can make.

Sorry I cannot really put them on a numerical scale of "quality." I have yet to find a good functional definition of "quality" to allow me to quantify it and index it to a number. If I try to assign a number, it will not me meaningful to anyone (probably not even to myself).

[Christy]

Hmmm, how can I tell if the Steinwey M is well prepared?  I tried a brand new one in the store.  I like the touch and the tone.  And the mahogany is just beautiful.  But a friend of mine told me not to buy a brand new Steinwey.  Her piano teacher believes used Steinwey is a lot better.  Is it true?  And my piano tuner told me about a nice rebuilt Steinwey.  How can I tell if a used or rebuilt one is good?  And now you talk about the variations.... 
 
My kids' piano teacher has a Yamaha C3, and I played it today and felt a bit disappointed.  It sounds a bit "sharp" or "harsh" to me.  The teacher agrees and says she'll need to ask her tuner to regulate this Yamaha more often than her 14 year old Kawai (SR40).  And I also tried Kawai SR40 and felt the tone more mellow than C3.  I'm not sure which to get now...

[quantum]

The C3 is a huge step up from C2 and if you can afford it get the C3.  (Of course I'm biased because I play a C3  ) .  C3 has a fuller sound with deeper bass.  It also has the advantage of wood as opposed to plastic black keys.  I find this very helpful as it reduces slippage on the keys. 

If you are in the market for C3, also compare the Kawai RX-3.  The biggest difference between the two would be the sound.  Pick the sound you like.  Also don't forget to try the Kawai Millennium III action vs. the ABS action (there are many posts on the board about this). 

As for the Steinway M, it depends on the individual piano.  Please shop around for a used one too.  A Steinway will have individual characteristics for every instrument, even within the same model.  Personally I haven't found a Model M that I truly like and would much rather go for Model B. 

[Axtremus]

Hmmm, how can I tell if the Steinwey M is well prepared? I tried a brand new one in the store. I like the touch and the tone.

If it sounds good and plays well, it is well-prepared. Simple as that. If you already like that particular piano better than the C3's and C2's you have played, then that's that -- you like it better, and that's great. I just did not want to generalize because I have run into some new Model M's that I did't like as much. (Like quantum, I have generally had better luck with Model B's, but that's nother 15k~20k USD on top of a Model M. )

But a friend of mine told me not to buy a brand new Steinwey. Her piano teacher believes used Steinwey is a lot better. Is it true?

That's nonsense. I've played more than two dozen Steinways built in 2002 or later, and I've played other "vintage" old Steinways (rebuilt, restored, or otherwise) in various states of maintenance. Overall, I like more of the new ones than I do the old ones. The one advantage the old ones have is that they are usually cheaper.

And my piano tuner told me about a nice rebuilt Steinwey. How can I tell if a used or rebuilt one is good?

Play the piano yourself and see if it sounds good and plays well. If it sounds good, it usually is good. For additional assurance, find a technician NOT affiliated with the seller and NOT paid by the seller to help you assess the rebuild. You have to pay the technician yourself, but you'll know that that technician works for you, not the seller.
 

My kids' piano teacher has a Yamaha C3, and I played it today and felt a bit disappointed. It sounds a bit "sharp" or "harsh" to me. The teacher agrees and says she'll need to ask her tuner to regulate this Yamaha more often than her 14 year old Kawai (SR40). And I also tried Kawai SR40 and felt the tone more mellow than C3. I'm not sure which to get now...

The "harsh" and "sharp" part is a voicing concern, not regulation issue. A teacher's teaching piano gets more use than most people's home piano, and will usually deteriorate faster than other pianos unless the teacher is keen to maintain her piano (more frequent tuning, voicing, and regulation than for private home pianos). It's like saying the travelling salesman's car gets more mileage faster than most family cars and hence need more frequent oil changes. You're buying a new piano, not the teacher's piano.

Nontheless, if the C3 and SR40 do not speak to you, then get the Steinway M or shop some more, play some other pianos to see if something else you like better comes up.

Good luck.

[LJC]

Agree, it all comes down to your personal opinion of which one sounds the best. When I had a C3 I thought it better than the S&S M and a great deal of the L's out there. I had a really nice C3 though. The model B was mentioned, thats not a fair comparison its in a completely different class.

[Christy]

I'm grateful to all of the help.

The Kawai my kids' piano teacher has is GS-40.  (I made a mistake in my last post.)

 I just found a seemingly great deal on ebay for a used Steinwey M.  The price is great.  The only problem is it's in a quite far away state (in U.S.) from me.  The seller is selling for his customer because she does not have a room for this piano.  She bought an Upright from him.  This M is made in 1955.  The seller had his technician check it out.  He said it's a very fine piano.  No problems with the inside.  And it sounds and plays great.  But  I'll have to pay shipping (probably quite expensive, still waiting for the quote.) and there's no warranty or refund due to the low price and the fact that it's not his piano. 

Did anyone have a good experience buying a piano from ebay? 

The price for this used M is lower than a brand new C3.  But it's still a lot of money considering buying a piano I cannot check it out personally....

[LJC]

Christy, I would not buy a piano that you have not seen. You need to see it before you buy it. you need to make sure its the one for you.  There are alot of model M's around if thats what you want. If you keep looking you'll find a good one near by that you can try out before you buy.

[Christy]

Christy, I would not buy a piano that you have not seen. You need to see it before you buy it. you need to make sure its the one for you. There are alot of model M's around if thats what you want. If you keep looking you'll find a good one near by that you can try out before you buy.

Thanks for your advice.  You're right.  It's just too risky.

[Christy]

 The "harsh" and "sharp" part is a voicing concern, not regulation issue. A teacher's teaching piano gets more use than most people's home piano, and will usually deteriorate faster than other pianos unless the teacher is keen to maintain her piano (more frequent tuning, voicing, and regulation than for private home pianos). It's like saying the travelling salesman's car gets more mileage faster than most family cars and hence need more frequent oil changes. You're buying a new piano, not the teacher's piano.

Thanks, Axtremus.

What's difference between tuning, voicing, and regulating?  When I have my piano tuned, does it only get the tuning part?