First post - seeking advice on faster pieces for adult beginner.

[johan_b]

Ok, hello everybody - first post, be nice.

Background: Norwegian, 34 yrs old and late beginner. Had lessons for a couple of years while I was a kid (abt. 10 yrs old), and played the flute for 4 years in the school band (age 10-14).

I started up again playing the piano in May 2004, on a cheap digital Roland Fp2. Switched that for a Clavinova CLP170 after about 6 months. I've been playing for about a year now, and am my own 'teacher'. I might get a teacher at a later stage.

My sightreading skills are well below par, almost fluent on the treble clef but I still have big difficulties with the bass clef. I learn my pieces by memorising and learning hands separately, one part at the time, then joining hands and continuing to the next section. I am very dedicated when a new piece is in progress, and can sit for up to 4 hours (in separate smaller sessions) a day. In between pieces I play for about an hour a day.

Started out with the Menuet in G by Bach. It went fairly well, and I continued with several (5) lyric pieces by Grieg and a bunch of very simple christmas carols etc. I memorise everything, and rely on the score only when I forget something or suspect I have learned something wrongly. I probably do it this way due to my poor sight reading skills, but the advantage as I see it that I can spend more time 'making music' and need no sheetmusic to play. I play the piano for the sole purpose of self amusement, and the love of classical piano music. I just completed the Chopin Nocturne in Eb (Op 9 No 2), it took me about 4 weeks, and can play my pieces more or less with musicality and similar to recordings I have of them.

My question to you all is, which 'faster' piano pieces do you suggest as a next step in my journey towards better technical and musical abilities ? I have quite a few slower pieces lined up, but would like to try one of the 'faster' pieces as a long term (more than 4 weeks) project. Not Chopin Fantaisie Impromptu or Etude fast, but perhaps more like Schubert Impromptu Op 90 Nr. 2 fast. One of the Grieg Lyric pieces I have learnt has a fast section (Waltz Op. 38 No. 7), and with a good warm up I manage the insanely wide stretches in the left hand and play it well.

Oh, I also have a question on the fingering of measure 28 RH in the Chopin Nocturne 9-2. I do it 3433443312, but it feels a bit odd. Any suggestions ?

[pianoguy]

Why don't you try Chopin's "Minute Waltz"(op. 64-1)? It's been played at a variety of tempos, so you don't have to play it inhumanly fast, but it's still a fast piece nonetheless.

[ako]

If you have not played many pieces from the Classical period, I'd suggest playing some Mozart or Haydn. I always find them good for training my fingers to play 16th notes evenly and musically. So glad to hear adults learning to play te piano.

[dorfmouse]

"Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum" from Debussy's "Children's Corner" would seem to fit your criteria; a sparkling beautiful piece, the notes not appallingly hard but lots of subtle changes of touch and tempo, wonderfully expressive dynamics ... and when you start playing  it up to speed, new melodies magically seem to appear.
I love the humour of the piece, I believe it started as a gentle parody of his daughter  "Chou-Chou" practising from the piano tutor of the same name. (If only scales and arpeggios always sounded like that!)

[mound]

Check out some pieces from Schumann's Album for the Young. "Knight Rupert" (English Spelling) comes to mind.. It's fast and fun, and not all that hard.   You might also check out some Haydn Sonatas.

[xvimbi]

Easy, yet impressive and fun: Beethoven's Six Ecosaisses (Kissin regularly gives them as an encore)

[claudio]

you might want to think about Schubert walzes. they are great fun and some are
not too difficult.

[bernhard]

My sightreading skills are well below par, almost fluent on the treble clef but I still have big difficulties with the bass clef. I learn my pieces by memorising and learning hands separately, one part at the time, then joining hands and continuing to the next section. I am very dedicated when a new piece is in progress, and can sit for up to 4 hours (in separate smaller sessions) a day. In between pieces I play for about an hour a day.

Any time spent on training yourself to sight-read fluently will pay handsome dividends. Make sure you do it the right way though. Have a look here for some further advice:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1871.msg14384.html#msg14384
(Reading notation – Richmann’s book – Cambridge word scramble example)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1976.msg15962.html#msg15962
(Sight reading – Richmann’s book)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2406.msg20820.html#msg20820
(the grand staff)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2577.msg22247.html#msg22247
(Keyboard topography – how to find notes by touch)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2713.msg23282.html#msg23282
(Teaching bass clef – the full explanation for the grand staff)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2751.msg23710.html#msg23710
(detailed explanation of the sight-reading process)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2757.msg23890.html#msg23890
(Sight reading techniques – Good post by faulty on the folly of pedagogues)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2763.msg25148.html#msg25148
(music to develop sight reading from scratch)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3205.msg28255.html#msg28255
(how not to look at the keys – Richmann’s reviews)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3334.msg29381.html#msg29381
(Reading both staffs as a single grand staff - Reasons for working on scales - Detailed discussion of Richmann’s book)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4461.msg41580.html#msg41580
(Looking at the keys: Good or bad? exercises to help finding notes by touch. Good contributions by Chang).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4506.msg42967.html#msg42967
(accompanying as a way to teach sightreading)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5090.msg48850.html#msg48850
(the score is tabs for piano)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7466.msg74462.html#msg74462
(Sightreading – Comparison with reading – St Augustine reading skills)

[to be continued...]

[bernhard]

[...continuation from previous post]

Started out with the Menuet in G by Bach. It went fairly well, and I continued with several (5) lyric pieces by Grieg and a bunch of very simple christmas carols etc. I memorise everything, and rely on the score only when I forget something or suspect I have learned something wrongly. I probably do it this way due to my poor sight reading skills, but the advantage as I see it that I can spend more time 'making music' and need no sheetmusic to play. I play the piano for the sole purpose of self amusement, and the love of classical piano music. I just completed the Chopin Nocturne in Eb (Op 9 No 2), it took me about 4 weeks, and can play my pieces more or less with musicality and similar to recordings I have of them.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with memorising. But you want to master both skills (memorising and sight-reading).

My question to you all is, which 'faster' piano pieces do you suggest as a next step in my journey towards better technical and musical abilities ? I have quite a few slower pieces lined up, but would like to try one of the 'faster' pieces as a long term (more than 4 weeks) project. Not Chopin Fantaisie Impromptu or Etude fast, but perhaps more like Schubert Impromptu Op 90 Nr. 2 fast. One of the Grieg Lyric pieces I have learnt has a fast section (Waltz Op. 38 No. 7), and with a good warm up I manage the insanely wide stretches in the left hand and play it well.

Here are a few suggestions in progressive order of difficulty:

Theodor Kirchner – Allegro Scherzando op. 55 no.11. This has to be the easiest, most elementary “virtuoso” piece ever written. Just one page long.

Scarlatti – Sonatas K382 and K 198. These will do wonders for your technique  - they sound far more difficult thatn they actually are (around grades 3 – 4)

Ludovico Einaudi – “Stella del Matino” (Ricordi) – Fast arpeggios in the right hand, slow octaves on the left. Minimalist music, pleasing to the ear, technically very basic, yet impressive sounding.
The following may be a bit above your capacity, so regard them as challenges that will stretch your capabilities:

Grieg: Lyric pieces  (Butterfly) (Elf dance)

Schumann: Fantastic dance

Mendelssohn – Song without words no. 45  - op. 102 no.3 – very fast – an excellent study in fast staccato.

Mendelssohn – Song without words no. 34 – op. – Also known as “Spinning song”. Very impressive, sounds far more difficult than it actually is.

Chopin – Prelude op. 28 no. 3 – Very fast arpeggio figurations on the left hand.
 
Scarlatti – Sonata K427 – exhilarating piece, marked by the composer “As fast as possible”.


Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[sklebil]

How about C.P.E.Bach's Solfegietto? It's been my favourite warm-up for years. The difficulty depend on the tempo you choose I guess. You can either practice with both hands - that's how it is written, or try to play with left hand only.
And how about Turkish March? May be too difficult.
From the Schumann's album for the young, Wild Rider  is very easy, fast stacatto piece.

[johan_gb]

Thank you all for your excellent suggestions. I've had trouble with my username/login johan_b (yes, read the faq etc), so I had to register a new user to be able to reply. Especially thanks to Bernhard for his very detailed and thorough reply ! Now I have plenty of stuff to work on for quite some time.

[llamaman]

Wild Rider will be WAY too easy. It's Grade 4 (RCM). And the Chopin Nocturne in Eb is what? At least 8 or 9.

[nanabush]

Yes! Play the Schumann fantastic dance, it's excellent and not difficult.  And once you know it well and can play it really fast, it sounds 'extreme'.