steeley tendons on the inner forearm

[Bob]

My forearms, the inner side, the tendons I think...  they feel tight today.  My fingers are a bit achey.

I've been pushing my playing lately.  Probably too much.  This is a sign to back off, my body is telling me.  I think.  Not a good sign for playing definitely.


Does anyone else get this?  What do you do about?  How to get over this for now?  How to prevent it from happening again in the future?

[pianonut]

overexertion!  probably more common with men than women, when you mow the lawn, take out heavy objects, plant a tree, and then go and practice.  it's just too much!  don't put all your jobs close together - dr. pianonut speaking - and if your arms feel the least bit tired, soak them first before going to the piano.  fill the sink with warm/hot water, do a few dishes and let your arms sink in for a bit.  then see how the muscles feel.  if they are still sore.  don't practice.

ps. my son got a new mouse for his computer.  does anyone know about the ergonomics of the new ones (flatter and longer) vs. the old (rounder and shorter)?  i don't like his new mouse because it makes my forearm ache, too.

[steinwayguy]

overexertion!  probably more common with men than women, when you mow the lawn, take out heavy objects, plant a tree, and then go and practice.

That was quite, quite sexist.

[pianonut]

well, i'm one of maybe two women in my neighborhood that mow their own lawns.  my hubby is older, so i do more things (he also has really bad allergies).  from my own experience (watching most guys do the outside thing in my neighborhood) heavy lifting can hurt a woman's back.  it may sound sexist, but i can always tell when i overdid lifting dirt, water, rocks, whatever.  i still do it, though.  my son is starting to help me, but with the end of school and the heat by the time he gets home, usually do the work in the morning myself. 

[Bob]

(Bob sets down a large rock he was carrying around "just because he felt he needed to.")

Yeah I was lifting some heavy things recently (not rocks) AND have been pushing my practicing -- faster, louder/softer, with more control!...

I was wondering if anyone else experiences this and how they go about recovering from it.  I still can feel it.

[xvimbi]

My forearms, the inner side, the tendons I think...  they feel tight today.

You must not think this way! The tendons can't be tight. Tendons don't contract or lengthen (to a first approximation). If they do, you are in serious trouble. Instead, it must be the attached muscles that are tight. Unless, of course, your tendons are inflamed, or something else is wrong with them.

I am stressing this, because people often confuse tendon-related issues with muscle-related issues. One could get the idea that, in order to increase flexibility, one should lengthen the tendons. If you try this, you will end your pianistic career right there. So, make sure you understand exactly how your body works, or you'll end up like Schumann.

[pianonut]

xvimbi's probably right!

bob, about the rocks...when we bought our home, i thought they prepared the soil.   believe it or not, we have actual boulders in our backyard.  thankfully, on a slope.  since i cannot wait for certain jobs to get done, i do it myself.  i took a shovel to one, and found out it's actual size.  i dug around it, thinking my son would take care of the rest - but it sat there for a week or two.  frustrated by looking at it, i took the garden hose and used buoyancy to get the thing out.   then pushed it to the edge of the yard (thinking to myself - i could be in an olympic iron woman contest).

just lifting my daughter, is like a rock carrying contest, too.  there are many things women CAN do.  it's just, if we don't have to do them, we'd rather not.

i try to be creative about lifting, because (as xvimbi says) you don't want to damage tendons.  i think my muscles lately have had a lot of strain because i carry water to plants in the back that the hose cannot reach either.  groceries, etc. etc.  don't really complain until it gets really bad.  have lately thought about back massages at the chiropractor my son goes to.

[BoliverAllmon]

You must not think this way! The tendons can't be tight. Tendons don't contract or lengthen (to a first approximation). If they do, you are in serious trouble. Instead, it must be the attached muscles that are tight. Unless, of course, your tendons are inflamed, or something else is wrong with them.

I am stressing this, because people often confuse tendon-related issues with muscle-related issues. One could get the idea that, in order to increase flexibility, one should lengthen the tendons. If you try this, you will end your pianistic career right there. So, make sure you understand exactly how your body works, or you'll end up like Schumann.

Ok, I see a contradicition here. it is probably a misunderstanding on my part, but I will ask anyway. You say that tendons can't be stretched and that there isn't any muscles in the hand itself. Well, then how do you explain someone hand's? I know that they can be stretched and limbered up. So (in my mind) either the tendons can be stretched or there are muscles in the hand. Please explain.

boliver

[teresa_b]

Hey Boliver,

There are muscles in the hand!  Who told you otherwise?  The fingers themselves (except thumbs) don't have muscles, and are connected to muscles in the forearm by tendons.   

You really don't want to "stretch" tendons, only muscles.  The original poster probably has sore forearm muscles from overuse, although tendinitis could cause soreness, too.  Carpal tunnel syndrome can cause trouble with the fingers feeling numb, and weakness in the hand muscles, and results from the nerves getting compressed beneath the carpal tunnel tendon sheath in the wrist.  So all should watch out for signs of overuse.

All the best, Teresa

[xvimbi]

Ok, I see a contradicition here. it is probably a misunderstanding on my part, but I will ask anyway. You say that tendons can't be stretched and that there isn't any muscles in the hand itself. Well, then how do you explain someone hand's? I know that they can be stretched and limbered up. So (in my mind) either the tendons can be stretched or there are muscles in the hand. Please explain.
boliver

1. I never said there aren't any muscles in the hand. Of course there are! There are no muscles in the fingers, though.

2. With "stretching", one usually associates flexibility around a given joint, or better, increased range of motion around a joint. There are several ways to increase this range of motion. The range of motion is primarily determined by the ability of muscles to relax and contract, the elasiticity of the muscle tissue (once injured, muscle tissue loses a lot of flexibility), elasticity of the tendons across the joint, elasticity of the ligaments, elasticity of the skin, and finally, the joint structure itself, the type of joint and surrounding bones.

Generally, muscles can stretch a lot, and this is and should be the primary means of achieving greater flexibility. Ligaments can be stretched a little, and tendons should not be stretched at all. They provide stability of the movements around a joint. Some people do indeed stretch their tendons, e.g. contortionists, gymnasts, and Circus athletes. However, stretching tendons is very difficult, because it has to be done in addition and beyond stretching muscles. Tendons are designed to connect muscles to bones without stretching. If you stretch a bone-tendon-muscle system, muscles stretch first, then the tendon (with the muscle at the limit at which point it may rupture). Importantly, when a tendon is stretched, usually through trauma, the surrounding tissue gets permanently damaged or the tendon simply snaps (which is what usually happens; look at soccer and football players.) Connective tissue and skin can also be worked on to increase flexibility if they are the limiting factors.

3. Back to the hand. I assume you mean increasing the hand span. This is achieved through increasing the range of motion around the joints in the wrist where the fingers attach, not by increasing the range of motion at the knuckles. These lateral movements of the fingers are carried out by muscles in the forearm. You need to stretch those. The additional lateral movements from the knuckles are assisted by muscles in the palm of the hand. You can work on these as well, but working on the connective tissue and the skin between the fingers might give faster results.

[BoliverAllmon]

1. I never said there aren't any muscles in the hand. Of course there are! There are no muscles in the fingers, though.

oh yeah that is right. I figured it was just something I misunderstood or remembered wrong. carry on.

[Bob]

I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this and if anyone had any solutions to this stuff.

I really don't know what the parts are -- tendons or muscle...  The parts I was thinking of is on the inner side of the forearm, from a little past the wrist to about halfway towards the elbow.

New developments...
My fingers feel..  overtight?  wound up too much?  I can't find the right word.  Kind of like when I move them, they stretch and I feel it in the joints too.

I'm guessing this is just overuse.  I think it may come across sounding worse than it actually feels.  I DO know that it doesn't feel good or right.  I must have really pushed it last week.

[Jacey1973]

My forearms, the inner side, the tendons I think...  they feel tight today.  My fingers are a bit achey.

I've been pushing my playing lately.  Probably too much.  This is a sign to back off, my body is telling me.  I think.  Not a good sign for playing definitely.


Does anyone else get this?  What do you do about?  How to get over this for now?  How to prevent it from happening again in the future?

When i've been playing solidly for about 3 or 4 hours i get shooting pains down on the inner side of my arms - do u get this as well? My fingers don't ache the next day though, sign of age eh Bob? 

[Bob]

I haven't had any shooting pains.

It's not age.  I've had this happen on and off for years.

I think it has something to do with overuse.  Very annoying when it happens.  Like a deep achey feel.

I suppose I can tell when I've overused my body.  I know for sure I can tell when it is healed up -- it feels good and I can feel the extra strength, control...  I just want to find a quick way to get back to that.

Does this make sense to anyone else?  Does anyone ALWAYS have that nice strong healed up feeling?  I wonder if I should only practice when I feel like that and if I'm wasting my efforts playing when damaged.

[Bob]

hmmm... It's a deep ache.  A "bad" stretching feel.  And I notice more of this creaking feel in my joints.  I think.

[ted]

"Does anyone ALWAYS have that nice strong healed up feeling? "

I think so. My hands always feel pretty good to me even if I play for hours on end. This topic comes up quite frequently. While I wish to help people I am always at a loss to know exactly what it is that I must be doing right. I do not do any exercises per se at the piano,  but I do play the silent practice clavier for a few minutes every day - have done for almost forty years. I unreservedly enjoy every moment at the piano, in other words I am probably in what most people call a "comfort zone" all the time. I never work and grind at any one thing for very long and I do not hesitate to employ a very large variety of movements and techniques, even ones which are considered incorrect.

I often wonder, but I am certainly not qualified to claim it is true, whether a lot of these injuries are the end result of habitually playing with too much conscious striving and struggle.  It's just about the only thing which the people with injuries do and which I have never done.

[april]

Bob,
I know exactly what you are talking about, cuz I was having the same problem (love those Chopin etudes!!)
My teacher gave me an article about Cubital Tunnel Syndrome written by Dr. Timothy Jameson (more info might be at www.musicianhealth.com).
It was directed to guitarists, but I had the same symptoms.
Treatments and prevention included:
   frequent breaks from playing - 10 min/45 min of playing
   stretching and massaging the arms
   heat on the forearm b4 playing, and ice after
   good nutrition and weight training specific for forarm muscles

Of course if it's really bad - go see a doctor or chiropractor or massage therapist or somebody who can evaluate and test etc etc.

Some of this was helpful for me - hope it's a start for you.

[BoliverAllmon]

Bob,
I know exactly what you are talking about, cuz I was having the same problem (love those Chopin etudes!!)
My teacher gave me an article about Cubital Tunnel Syndrome written by Dr. Timothy Jameson (more info might be at www.musicianhealth.com).
It was directed to guitarists, but I had the same symptoms.
Treatments and prevention included:
   frequent breaks from playing - 10 min/45 min of playing
   stretching and massaging the arms
   heat on the forearm b4 playing, and ice after
   good nutrition and weight training specific for forarm muscles

Of course if it's really bad - go see a doctor or chiropractor or massage therapist or somebody who can evaluate and test etc etc.

Some of this was helpful for me - hope it's a start for you.

that sounds like some good advice. I had tendonitis in my forearm from playing baseball several years ago. I went to a therapist about it and he would massage and apply heat to the area three times a week for three weeks. After that there was no pain at all. I think the idea of someone completely not playing the piano for nearly a year is a bit overdone. I think that person needs proper rehab work instead of doing nothing.

boliver