Rap IS NOT Music

[roman]

What's your view on the current music in our world?  I think all the music like POP, Rock, Rap, and any other form of stupidity called music come up by music morons is all crap.  I hate listening to all this crap, yes crap.

It's an embarassment when we look at how far we humans have come, and then to see that we idolize some high-school drop out who talks about raping his mother and killing his wife and other people.

Just for the record, Rap IS NOT Music, it has never been music and never will be music.  When you have a thug saying something that only the morons in society understand, and he doesn't even sing in it, how can you call that music?

I'm just voicing my hate for Rap and all the other crap in the world, it makes me sick to turn on the TV and watch Entertainment Tonight show some high school dropout moron who's moronic CD just went Platinum.

And then you see all these wonderful and talented Pianist's, who are struggling to jump start their career after a lifetime of hard work and dedication.

It's a big downside to us as humans.

Rap makes you more stupid, psychotic, and crazy.

Piano music makes you more smart, calm and intelligent.

My choice for music is Contemporary Christian, Classical, etc. I enjoy some very talented artists like Michael W. Smith, and others, because they dont' turn their music into something out-of-this-world-crap.  

But everything else in the world, all these no-talented Britney's and Justin's are a disgrace to the word music itself.  

[Stral]

I think that these is some good in any genre of music, no matter what it may be (be it rap, pop, etc.).  I refuse to judge others based on what the like or enjoy, or there reasons for doing so.  It just isn't my place.  I don't listen to rap, however I have a few friends who do and there is a high degree of artistry that goes into the making of so-called "good" rap.  The samples chosen (and not song-long samples, as seen in popular rap but rather momentary ones that add spice to the music) are often creative and add to the song itself.  The lyrics in many rap songs do have a deeper meaning, be it political or spiritual.  It isn't all "thug music" as you seem to think.  Also, there is a high degree of intelligence and spontinaity behind much of the underground rap and hiphop that is out there, especially at live shows where improvisation is the name of the game.  

I do agree that there is a lot of tripe out there, and popular "ganster" rap is definately no good.  Just please don't be so quick to attack another genre just because you haven't managed to take the time to discover its merits.  

With that said, there is an enormous amount of good music being produced in the world today, you just have to know where to look.  I don't listen to genres per se, however if I was to be pigeonholed my main genres would be jazz, classical, and progressive music.  There are far too many great contemporary artists out there to count. Artists like Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Sigur Ros, A Silver Mt. Zion, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Tool, King Crimson, Radiohead, John Zorn, Mike Patton, and Tori Amos  are doing so much to keep amazing music alive (both on technical and emotional levels).

[88keys]

What's your view on the current music in our world?  I think all the music like POP, Rock, Rap, and any other form of stupidity called music come up by music morons is all crap.  I hate listening to all this crap, yes crap

So The Beatles is crap? Last time I've checked, they are were a rock band... What about Deep Purple? Pink Floyd? If you don't like their music, that's perfectly fine, but your (or anybody else's) personal taste is not enough to turn something into "crap".

And another thing: Do you honestly think the majority of modern "serious music" is better than today's rock and pop bands? Would you rather listen to an hour of John Cage's avantgarde music, or an hour of the latest rock bands?

As for talent, not many self-proclaimed musicians have it, and it probably have been this way since the dawn of time. The good news is, only those who are really good will place their mark on the history of music. Nobody in the year 2100 is going to listen to Britney Spears,  nor will they listen to anything from the redicolous avant-garde experimentaton era. But bands such as Deep Purple, or the Beatles will probably remain in the popular music repertoire forever, just like old songs such as Sawanee River are popular today.

Too bad our grandchildren won't have a single worthy piece of "serious music" from the late 20th century in their repertoire...

[liszmaninopin]

I don't like modern popular music, but I think the way you put it was too harsh.  Comments like that on a forum with people from all walks of life and interests will probably make them think that pianists are stuck up.  If you want to share your opinion, you might want to use a touch more tact in the future.  Modern music isn't all bad.  Besides much very beautiful piano music created every day, countless people produce pieces for everything from guitar to drums to trumpets which really deserve recognition as great work.  I don't approve of songs that use profanity or express questionable ideas, but a revolution has occurred in the type of music that the average person likes.  When Beethoven composed his Fifth Symphony, many critics of the day thought of it as "musical nonsense."  Nowadays it is viewed as a masterwork.

[frederic]

Maybe you are saying that they are MUSICALLY EMPTY. But you can't say they are not music!!! Really, singing is not music? Guitars and drum kits are not music? In fact, i think any sound is music. the sound of us speaking is music. Birds singing is music. Music is everywhere.
So you are saying IN YOUR OPINION these such and such is such and such.
So those people who are rap, pop, rock fans say they like listening to CRAP?
You need to think a bit more about it roman.

[lea]

rap is music guyz

face it

rap has notes, and instruments so what else cud it be

but its really ur opinion, yeah

it isnt really garbage otherwise noone wud listen to it

[88keys]

Yeah.

Roman, it's time to face the music...  

[Franz_Liszt]

Rap is trash music. It has no spiritual purpose. Rap is just crap.    

[willcowskitz]

Probably the finest thing about maturity is the ability  to see the world objectively. Though some people always knew how to do this, the others never learn.

[Stral]

Franz_Liszt, although we both may not enjoy rap, there is rap music in existance that has a spiritual or cultural purpose.  You must remember that rap originated as a means of expression and communication for inner-city african americans.  Did you even read the whole thread before spouting off?

[Franz_Liszt]

{Sincerely} I wonder what Willcowskitz is blabbing about.
Anyway, Stral, why try to correct me? I will not learn what I donot wish to. We are separated by our computer screens and alot of cable and other barriers. Your statements are futile, and I am willing to accept a similar opinion from you.

[Colette]

i would like to say in willcowskitz's defense that objectivity is a product of maturity and visa versa. with maturity comes informed, learned opinions, and thus comes true objectivty.
if you say something is crap without backing up your statement with convincing arguments, the statement becomes empty and ultimately irrelevant. people are more likely to consider an opinon if it is expressed in a way that demonstrates an understanding of the topic being discussed. so fine, say that rap is crap but explain why you feel this way. if you only criticize without explanation, you risk being pegged. you'll be seen as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, or is too lazy to lucidly articulate what they are talking about.
as for my opinion on rap, it is not my favorite type of music, but there is some underground rap that harkens back to rap's origins and initial intents. commercial rap is made for the market, and is empty music, but, within any genre, be it classical, jazz, hip hop, rap. etc. there are always a few musicians who will break the mold. rap, originally, was a fusion of spoken word and african rhythms. if you've listened to indigenous african music, it is complex and the rhythms are infectious. instruments are used that are fascinating and entirely alien to our western ears. hats off to those rare artists who can pull off a spirted blend of musical african culture with their own compositional ideas. they are hard to find, but, believe it or not, there are some alive and kicking. it is the duty of the sensitive listener to find these unique individuals, who will keep music, art, literature, science, etc. alive for eras to come. if not, we can simply say that much of our culture is "dead" and is"crap", but where will that get us? nowhere. unless we are wiling to be curious, selective, and patient with the remaining gems of culture, they will all but dissipate.

[Stral]

Franz, I was not trying to correct you, but rather explain to you why your views of rap and rap culture may be misguided due to a lack of knowledge (regarding the roots of said culture).  And if you choose to turn your brain off, or in your own words to not "learn what you do not wish to" then I must say that you will likely remain forever ignorant about many things.  If you refuse to open your mind to what others have to say or think (or are superficially selective in doing so) then I must question why it is that you would visit a forum such as this where the exchange of information and ideas is paramount.

Your behaviour here seems to be either that of a troll, or of someone who lacks the maturity to converse among intelligent, open-minded adults.  I will assume the former, and as such from thie point onward I will no longer feed you.

[Lucy]

I think you have to put things into perspective. You can't just take the word 'music' and compare everything that falls under this very broad category.

Rap, pop, and rock, when compared with the music of great classical composers, seems insignificant and not great (I hesitate to use the word 'crap' ...) You couldn't sit down and analyse a pop song in the same depth that you would, say, a Beethoven symphony. It's just a different kettle of fish altogether ... You have to think about the purpose of various different kinds of music and the circumstances in which you hear it.

This is an interesting debate about which I have many thoughts ... perhaps I'll add some later.

As for my personal opinion ... manufactured pop is the bane of my existence ... I can't stand all the carbon-copies churned out by record companies ... but then, that's all some people want, a driving rhythm that can be 'danced' to and some weak lyrics weedily whined by a nondescript leggy blonde. I'm not a huge fan of rap either. I do however like some rock music. I find it really satisfying to listen to, and just because it's not exactly intellectually demanding, it doesn't make it 'bad'. Or 'crap'.

The most important thing is to be OPEN-MINDED. There's no point in judging things by genre. If you hear a piece of music, or a song, or something, and find that the sounds in it produce a positive effect upon you, then it's a good thing. This works both ways, of course. A lot of people I know say that classical music is 'boring' without really knowing any of it. Being prejudiced against something is the worst thing.

[chopinetta]

first let us differentiate music from noise. music is an organization of sounds and silences and pleasant to hear. Noise is ugly, though it may have rythm, it is not pleasing to hear.

there is an experiment conducted on two plants dear guys... one plant in a room listening to classical and the other in a separate room dealing with the modern rock and pop.

after several days plant 2 in the rock room died...

want that to happen to you? i agree that rap will make you really dumb. there's another study conducted that those who listen to become wild without their knowing it.

do you know why? because rap and rock is all loud beats. this was used by african soldiers long ago in war. there is the loud beating of a drum to make the soldiers wild!!!

i agree that rap and rock is moronic, idiotic, stupid, nincompooply, foolish, senseless. okay?

but there is always a few modern that is music like charlotte church  and josh groban my love...

you go roman!!! good work!

[Legatello]

sometimes when i listen to rap (accidentaly) i think that the people that plays, or listen, to that "music" are trying to find a way to express themselves. For me it's really nice to express your feelings with music, but the wrong thing i think they are doing is that they are always saying stuff about beeing the most beautiful guy the most powerful, the most rough, the most violent, kill that guy, rape that woman...

They are not teaching anything good to the people that listen to that. I think that sounds that transmit anger and hate must be hard and violent, it cannot be relaxing and enjoyable.

I think rap contributes to the culture of anger we are living in. Why does everyone out there rank people bye their strenght or beauty ?? you just have to see rap fans, how they stand, how they talk. I think this topic is really interesting, because maybe the problem we cannot understand is that it is maybe more difficult to listen to Music that to listen to rap, that is based in primitive musical language, for me it's like a travel in history: when you see a rap group you must realise you are the most lucky guy in the world cos you are seeing what exactly was human race millions of year, basing their culture in chiefs and violence...

well, it is hard for me to explain something difficult in english, i feel handicaped !!! i don't like that, i should stay in rather normal posts hahaha

i hope my bad english was not an obstacle !

[chopinetta]

i think rap contributes to noise pollution.

[88keys]

Chopinetta, with all due respect, people are not plants...

Plants don't care for good music. They are simply damaged by certain type of sounds, regardless of their musical quality.

Think of the following experiment:

Take two plants. Play Mahler Symphonies to one of them, and quiet modern rock ballads to the other.

Which plant will die now? Does this mean Mahler isn't music?

[88keys]

In one thing you are right, Chopinetta:

Loud music, played for a prolonged length of time, is both unhealthy and irritating. And rap listeners tend to play their music much louder than, say, someone listening to Mozart or even Mahler.

But the problem, Chopinetta, is not in the music itself. It is in the people who listen to it.

Remember that 40 years ago people listened to the Beatles in the same wild noisy way those teenagers listen to Rap and Heavy Metal today. The Beatles fans of the 1960's were really wild and crazy, but this does not make the Beatles' music any less valuable.

[ericnolte]

Hello all,

  We live in an age in which the sensitive disdain to condemn anything.  There is so much violence and predatory behavior in the world that the large spirited among us want to find ways in which to respect the inherent dignity and worth of every soul on the planet,  even if he be as misguided and warped by his self-righteous hatreds as Osama bin Laden, or George Bush the Second.

 We also live in an era that is aesthetically VERY confused.  For almost a century now, it has been accepted that the mere intention to create a work of art is sufficient to make it art.  In other words, to say that a piece is art is to make it so.  But standards by which to evaluate someone's effort?  Where are they?

  I think there are some standards by which one can say if a work is artful, and whether that piece is good or not.

  With respect to music, it seems to me that an essential precondition of classifying a work as being music or not is that this work should display the defining criteria by which we call a work music or not.  Music, by definition, must exhibit at least the qualities of rhythm and melody.  

  Rap "music" has pronounced rhythmic element, of course, but no melody.

  So how can it be music?  Music requires rhythm and melody, no?

  You may argue that rap work is Art.  You may say that it is a species of poetry.  It certainly expresses something in a rhythmic fashion.

  But music... it ain't....

  If you'd like to take an amazing voyage through some fascinating territory that deals with these issues, read Louis Torres and Michelle Kahmi's _What Art Is_.  While I don't agree with everything there, I promise you a provocative read that will make you a more perceptive and nuanced critic of the art world today.

Best,
Eric Nolte

[chopinetta]

oh maybe so 88keys, but if plants die because of rock and rap and people are always listening to rap and rock as loud as they can, plants get affected. remember that we are having a mutual relationship with plants... where will we get our daily supply of oxygen then?

remember the basic science taught to you in elementary, it helps!

[Colette]

ha. i can see it now. millions of people blast rock and rap and all the plants die. oxygen goes out of the air and human kind goes extinct. unless we all change our mischievous ways and play some nice quiet mozart and bach...but if we play messiaen or bartok, well then, we're all screwed. sounds like something out of a twisted version of orwell's 1984...

[88keys]

Ericnolte, you've raised an interesting issue:

How can Rap be music, if it has no melody?

I tend to think Rap IS music, because it uses musical insruments (drums, synths) and because the drum patterns can be seen as a kind of melody (there might even be melodic components par-se, if basses or similar accompanying instruments are present).

Anyway, music or not, Rap is a valid form of art, which seems to be the point this thread tries to challange.

[88keys]

Chopinetta, plants don't die because of "rock and rap". They died because of music which is too d**n loud... Doesn't matter if it is rap, rock or Gustav Holst's Planets suite - if its too loud, its bad for you (and the plants, too).

And speaking of basic science: Millions of oxygen-giving trees are cut every year to produce the daily paper, and you are worried about the damage done by rap musicians?

[Colette]

i respect people's tastes in music, but if charlotte church and josh groban are the shining stars of musical culture that will pull us through our sad cultural slump, then we're all doomed...no offense chopinetta.

[88keys]

I've just read Legatello's post, and he does have a good point.

Any rap song (or non-rap song, for that matter) which contains tons of vulgar machoistic language, cannot be considered as legitimate art. At least, not if the vulgar language is the only element present...

But are all rap songs like this? I find it hard to believe that this is the case.

[Legatello]

yesterday i saw again Bowling for Columbine...and i was thinking...maybe rap is another "culture of fear, buy all that u can before we're screwed" thing. It might seem like it is all a conspiration but i really think there's something there ! I think rap is another weapon for the guys which decide what country we bomb or not, i think their major task is to keep society under control and it doesn't not matter what innocent people has to pay. Sometimes it seems in the news that human life doesn't cost a penny but that's another story. I would say that the problem is so much deeper than we can think, i really believe that we are in some kind of culture of no-knowledge where reading is a communist thing (that smelly persons) and that asking for answes is beeing a terrorist !

i really love what we are doing !

please excuse my bad english, maybe i couldn't explain myself properly but talking a foreign language is so difficult (and frustrating)

NO PASARAN !

[robert_henry]

I'm surprised by some of the judgmental posts on this subject.  I didn't expect so many closed-minded people to inhabit these forums, especially after some of the more positive posts I have read.

There is good and poor music within each genre - talented and untalented artists within each field.  One can appreciate good art no matter what the type.  I grew up listening to rap, rock, country, jazz, but mostly classical.  Eminem is a genius.  The Beatles were and are geniuses.  Not understanding something doesn't give you the right to trash it.  And, not everything in art has to be "profound."  Levity is allowed you know.  I played a Mozart conerto with the Atlanta Symphony last night.  Then on the way home I was blasting Linkin Park.  It is a good release.  Of course it is not timeless in the way Mozart is, but I know the difference and I relax my standards when I listen to non-classical.

There is also music of non-western cultures...is this too not music?

As for contemporary Christian music (the positive message and lyrics aside), I find it to be among the most inane forms of music out there.  

It is interesting to note that those who are "filled with the spirit" and "filled with love for others" are often the most vitriolic people who enjoy using the most venomous judgmental language.  Using the word "hate" for anything is strong language, and is really uncalled for within a piano forum.

Robert Henry

[chopiszte]

Music is an expression of emotions through sound.  

Let's not be too conformist, notes are the most common way to construct the sounds of music, but if other ways to create music are discovered, the rhythm and lyrics of rap, than the music created is music as much as Mozart's symphonies are.

Franz, you make as ass of yourself when you imply that there is helpful information and knowledge in existence whose entrance into your mind you do no want.  

My favorite genre of music is the classical, romantic, baroque, etc, and also Jazz (on a side note, not modern Jazz) but really, roman and some others you are acting just as unreasonably as the stereotypical American teenager with no respect for classical music.  Perhaps even worse, because you imply that because of the music they listen to and create, people are inferior (morons of society, etc.).  

"But everything else in the world, all these no-talented Britney's and Justin's are a disgrace to the word music itself.  "

Though I do not like the music of the artists mentioned in your quote above, I would never say such an awful thing about another human being.  These are people trying to make something beautiful, something they and thousands of others enjoy.  How can you be so disrespectful?

[Keynote_Players]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. but if I may say so, it seems that Roman is not the only one being judgmental.  You were pretty open minded, Robert Henry, about every kind of music except one.  Obviously the reason for your impudence goes deeper than the topics that we can discuss on this forum.

[robert_henry]

I mention Contemporary Christian music only because Roman specifically mentions it.  If you read closer, I excluded the *message* of CCM from my comments.  And though it is certainly not necessary, my having 25 years of experience with church music, including 14 years of accompaniment and my own ministry at one point gives me room to express an opinion on a type of music that I grew up with.  And the motives for stating my opinion, although innocuous, are irrelevant.

Robert Henry

[Johnnylightning]

How 'bout Hawaiian music?  You know, it's got that twangy Polynesian sound.  I dunno', the whole grass-skirt/flowerry shirtin' tikki thing just kinda'...well, it just kinda' makes me wanna sway my arms, from side to side, in a flowing type manner and this is just not normal.

[TicTacDuck]

Hello everyone. I'm a sixteen year old and I listen to a variety of music. I listen to acapella, classic artists, RAP, classical . .etc. For those of you that think it destroy's people ..  I've always maintained a 4.0 GPA, I'm in band, key club and student council. I have fun with my friends. Rap is a way to express oneself, . . as piano is for many people. Maybe, by allowing people to voice their opinions it can allow certain topics to be discussed. Maybe parents can finally find the ice breaker to talk to their kids about important issues. It's not the music that hurts us its the people.

[Ktari]

Heh, was gonna refrain from commenting on this, but anyway, this is just a spinoff of Ericnolte's comment that rap doesn't have a melody, so can't be music. What about African ethnic music? (yes, it's called music in the textbooks) it doesn't have a set melody, is mostly composed of rhythms. I think some gamelan music is like that too -are those not music either? if not, what do you think are necessary for their to be music?

if there must be a melody, then I have to question some of that impressionism stuff out there too...

[Hmoll]

there is an experiment conducted on two plants dear guys... one plant in a room listening to classical and the other in a separate room dealing with the modern rock and pop.

after several days plant 2 in the rock room died...

Actually, I heard that the experiment was done on two people. The one listening to classical became a genius, while the one listening to bad popular music turned into a plant.

Just kidding.

I don't think there is any genre of music where I can't think of someone I like. That includes country, blues, jazz, rock and roll,  reggae, heavy metal, and rap.

[A-Flat]

Is rap music?
Well, although several people have said that rap uses instruments, live performances of rap invariably use turntables which play rock beats played by some anonymous talented person.
Secondly, someone said that Eminem is a genius. I have heard several people say this on television etc, but i can find no justification for it. Granted, he has a passable voice for a rab genre, and a good sense of rythm. But, he cannot play an instrument, cannot write a chord progression, all he can do is write lyrics, and these lyrics are not exactly genius material.
People have been saying that pop is much worse than rap, and  that brittany spears and justin timberlake are complete no-talents. Rap today has become pop music. "Artists" with questionable talent are publicised hugely, using posters and hype, but still claim to have "street-cred." Personally, i don't have much respect for a genre where success is based more on street cred than talent.
Finally, although i have bored everyone with a long post, i would like to say that i am not an 80 year old who hates all modern music. Bands such as metallica, tool, and silverchair, and artists such as tori amos are all amazingly talented. They use very well written music, virtuosity on chosen instruments (esp. metallica and Tori Amos) and many interesting music ideas to communicate emotions and ideas.  This is music that will be remembered, long after eminem and brittney spears have faded into obscurity.

[chopinetta]

i still insist! RAP IS NOT MUSIC!!!

hehehe... well that goes with me! i'm a stubborn girl!

[trinetime]

1. The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.

2. Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

6. An aesthetically pleasing or harmonious sound or combination of sounds: the music of the wind in the pines.

Those are definitions for the word "music". Rap closely adheres to def. 2. Chord progressions are not definitive of music, nor is melody. When jazz grew popular in the 20's many people claimed that jazz was not music. How many people still think that?

The rap you hear on the radio is crap. That is irrefutable. However, it is music. Don't judge an entire genre based on the mainstream bull that's on MTV. MTV and radio stations play what is popular; not what is good.

I dare you who don't believe rap is music to listen to "All I Got Is You" by ghostface killah. There's no profanity or talk of guns, drugs, money, jewelry, pimps or hoes - the staple of mainstream rap.

[xenon]

Well, it is true that Rap can be argued as rhythmic poetry.  True, there are some obscene types of lyrics out there, but one has to accept the fact that there are deranged people out there.  On the other hand, classical musicians tend to be quite snobbish to other "lesser" forms of music.  It is true that classical has decended from the forefathers of music dating back to the Musica Enchiriadis and al other types of developements in Western Music dating back to the Medieval Eras.  But we should all be open to what there is.  I like to listen to a variety of music (except coutry, of course ) because the performers' emotion is very captivating.  Not all classical performers can effectively outlet their emotions into their music like other "lesser" musicians.  Becuase of the eliteism of classical music, I would guess it might seem degrading to show the emotion into the music.  Anger is a hallmark of many rock bands, but that emotion is incredible.  Sometimes, it might be beneficial to see how they perform.  It can also broaden one's scope in the field of music. I've been trying different types of music this summer (yes, even rap), and I am learning what's out there.  I am also learning to express my feelings more effectively.

The bottom line:  Don't be too stuck up to other forms of music.  Check out what's out there.

[cziffra]

rap is a musical desert.  a desert does have trees, but they're all small, identical, half dead and uninteresting.

verbally it's a bit more interesting- i have to admit some of the lyrics are constructed very skillfully- there is some talent there.  

[eddie92099]

Blast the Prokofiev Toccata - that will show them!
Ed

[BoliverAllmon]

So The Beatles is crap? Last time I've checked, they are were a rock band... What about Deep Purple?

Some beatles is trash. I haven't heard many Deep Purple songs, but to me power chords are the easy man's way of making music.

boliver

[steveolongfingers]

Ultimate rock and roll band ever, with out a doubt- Jethro Tull, go flute!

[clarinetatheart]

First I would like to say that I haven't read all of the post people have wrote so I could very well be repeating other people’s thoughts.

Now with that said I, myself, do not like ALL pop music. Actually, that really depends on the circumstances. For example, at home, by myself, I would rather listen to Chopin, or Mozart, not Britney Spears. But if I'm at a club I would rather listen to Britney Spears. No I'm not going to buy her cd because I think her lyrics are tasteless and her voice annoying, but I would rather dance to her then to Chopin (depending on the type of party).

According to The Merriam Webster Dictionary music is defined as the following "The science or art of combining tones into a composition having structure and continuity: also:  vocal or instrumental sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony". Now let’s do a check list. Britney spears is vocal, she often has instruments (or computerized sounds), and her songs have rhythm, melody, and harmony. Sounds like music to me. Now rap music. Ok there is definitely rhythm, and there is a melody although it is often hard to find (if you have a good ear I'm sure you will have no problem hearing it), and there is harmony. Again that sounds like music to me.

"It's an embarrassment when we look at how far we humans have come, and then to see that we idolize some high-school drop out who talks about raping his mother and killing his wife and other people." Do you honestly think that there is no pianist, clarinetist, opera singer, whatever out there that hasn't dropped out of school? I think not. Yes humans as a whole have come far, but that does not make us perfect, there is racism, hate, murder, and all other horrible things you can think of in the world. Not all people who listen to rap go out and shot all of their classmates. Yes there may be some, but they are children who have been very abused and mustn’t have parents who are willing to listen. Bad things happen. Rap helps people more then anything. Now think of this circumstance, your a 15 year old living in a trailer, your mothers on drugs and your dads left home, you have nothing to live for so you turn to rap music. You listen to it, and listen to the words of someone talking about everything your going through. It makes you feel like your not alone, your not the only kid who has problems. And on a plus side you are listening to your problems being rapped by a very rich famous person who has risen up from your position to where they are now. It makes you feel that if they can make it in the world then you can too.

Have you ever listened, I mean really listened to rap music? Most rappers are very poetic, you try writing the words that they write.

I have had very positive experiences with rap music, it has helped me, and I am not "stupid, psychotic, and crazy." Rap music has actually helped me to get over hard times and to come back to classical music.

I still listen to Eminem's "Lose Yourself" before I perform. Sounds crazy doesn't it? Well it helps me. And if you don't know the words here are a few of them "You better lose yourself in the music, the moment
You own it; you better never let it go
You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow
This opportunity comes once in a lifetime"

Rap IS music, so is pop, rock, alternative, punk, whatever else you can think of. Just because you don't like it does not mean it isn’t music. And just because you believe it makes people stupid doesn't mean it does. I agree with the following, sort of, “no-talented Britney's and Justin's are a disgrace to the word music itself.” I don’t feel they are a disgrace, and I do think they have some talent, maybe most of their talent is found in dancing, or marketing, but I do believe that if we put Charlotte Church in a competition with Britney Spears and let the general public vote that Britney would win and she shouldn’t. The world isn’t fair though, and most people have a very narrow mind when it comes to music (by the sounds of it you do). I feel that there is good in all music, you just need to find it.

[chopinetta]

but it's all so simple. rap is not music--it's noise!!!

[Eek Lek Tik]

Other non european music also descended from forefathers. There are rich musical tradition outside of euroean classical music.

Why the need to judge or label any music or to care where someone labels anything as music?

It's as bad as "music should....".

[Askenaz7]

I believe is competely an other category but is still music
It has very low spiritual content and is different.Is something like: I play the drams part in the piano?
Personally I like very much jazz and I play some pieces but it presuppose knowledge about it (some rules,oddity..).I don't have problem to play a little jazz with my classic repertoire

[chopiabin]

As much as I utterly despise rap, I do not think we are in a position to say that it is simply not music. It may not be good music, but it has a beat and some semblance of a melody, so I think it still constitutes music. It really seems to be bad poetry with a techno beat.

[ninja600rs]

ericnolte,

    There is no reason for anyone to insult the president of the United States like that.  Talk about being ignorant.

- Jon

[eddie92099]

There is no reason for anyone to insult the president of the United States like that.  Talk about being ignorant.

,
Ed