Scherzo no.2 and moonlight 3rd movement

[forevere]

How long did it take you guys to completely master, and memorize each of these pieces?

Chopin's Scherzo no.2

Beethoven's moonlight sonata 3rd movement, Presto agitato

[rachmaninoff_969]

Scherzo - never played it
Beethoven - third movement alone in 3 weeks...the whole sonata about 5 weeks.  The third movement isn't that difficult...but I often find that people who learn this tend to always practice it a tempo...very bad idea...take it slowly 80-90% of the time, and when you play it up to tempo your hands will work wonders.  Good luck, it's a great piece and loads of fun to play
- A

[rob47]

they are great pieces!  I never mastered either.  They're kind of................................................................................................. ...............................................................
..............
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monotonous.

So to answer you're quesiton, I'm not answering your question, just b****ing instead.



BUT YOU CAN DO IT!! master them in however long it take you; everyone masters at different speeds.  A week or a year, it doesn't mean anyhitng.

[puppetmaster]

The scherzo took me 6 months to get it up to speed. And then another 3 months to fix all the problems I had. I probably just wasn't ready for it.

[fiveangles]

Regarding the time, well I don't think u can gain anything there as the Sonata must have been about 11 yrs or so...   Actually I shouldn't joke because it does take me forever to learn new peices.....I read so slow it's sad....I can memorize an awful lot, but I can't site read pop sheet music, But, the deal is that  I played it as a kid, which means I played it WRONG, and several years back I relearned all 3 movements, but mainly Presto Agg to perform it properly, and it took about 2 months, but the Presto still wasn't perfect and it still was not exactly the rythmn I wanted there was alot of aggitato.  The funny thing is that a few days ago I just started playing it for some reason & may have accidentally found the correct accent(s) on the arrpgos to create the effect that I'm looking for, if not then very soon.

Anyway, I just wanted to mention a couple of things, really as much for my benefit as any one's because in sharing my point of view (the discoveries and nauences that I became aware of) I look for feedback as well.  The fact also remains that I love discussing this interesting peice especially since I know it very well.  So I'm just gonna throw a couple of things out there and if they help or make sense, great, and if anyone wants to respond, even better. 

The big thing to me about this peice is the right rythmn effect as I find that Beethoven has such a keen sense of rythmn & I mean one of my friends who love dancing to club music, says that Beethoven, and this Presto movement in particular is that radical.  I aggree, there is so much going on, BUT, it is so easy to never notice it if u even slightly slur, bang, mis accent, play too fast, etc.  Now because of which, call me insane, but I have heard many of the great piansts play this and I only like 1 of them....I won't name any names but everyone else plays it so fast, wrong pedal, whatever but the end result is that in all of the speed, the peice looses its powerful rythmn and becomes uneven.  But there is one pianist who plays it a little slower, less pedal, more even volume, and with his accent on the arrpgos, brings out a rythmn that is AWESOME.  The best way to describe it is by saying that these arpgos litterally sound like a gallop, in fact when everyone that I have played this rendition for actually bobs their head and body up and down  as tho they were riding a horse.

The other major thing that I like along with this approach deals with keeping the rythmn EVEN throughout most of the peice (all parts where applicable).  This is based on the base in the left hand at the beginning of the peice...the two alternating notes or beats.....I just count it as 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,2......and I like to keep them accented evenly, rather than accenting the 1 or alternating 1's, but this is not the point per say.  I noticed that this 1,2 beat is present in the left hand throughout much of the peice even when the left hand is osalating on more than just 2 notes (if I'm stating the obvious, I'm sorry but I learn on my own so I have no idea what is 'common knowledge').  During these times, although many notes are being played by the left hand, the tonal center of the harmony is always on the up and down (1,2) beats so if these two notes were accented, it does wonders for the peice on all levels.  Take for example the left hand that supports the main melody that comes after the second grouping of arppgos.  There are 4 groupings of osalations......in the first you accent the G# and the B.....then the a# & c#....then you pick up the accent on double the ammount of beats by accenting all B's in the thrid grouping.....and accenting all G's in the last.  And when you go back to the first grouping (accenting just the down & up beats on G# & B again) as the 1 finger melody now moves to octaves, the rythmn that is created is really SICK because the two melody octaves on  D# come on the upbeat as you are bringing that out by your counterpoint in your base accents.  And that is just one of many places where you keep the peice together by accenting the proper notes/beats in the base.

Hope I was clear, then at least you can see if you like it.  And as far as how difficult, well to play it well is not really that hard, I mean it's not friggen easy, but it doesn't demand anything close to the limit of skill.  BUT to play it perfectly, including not speeding up the tempo in performance, nor allowing certin notes to be too loud/muffled....keeping the peice chrystal clear & totally even on every level, most importantly regarding rythmn and in complete control, while MOST importantly, not have too much control that the peice sounds like a cyborg is playing it.....make no mistake, it is a true virtuoso peice, as I have heard 1 pianst execute it perfectly, for while losing rythmn is like a staple in this peice, and it is very easy to do, but I have heard some lose tempo as well......and tempo is a metronome fix, but if ur rythmn is not good chances are ur not even aware.  I am certainly not making any accusations obviously, but just so you know right from the start why this peice is as hard as those who know say it is, but yet it isn't that hard to play...only because it's true difficulty begins when the pianist achieves a considerable level of technical efficiency.  And I haven't even mentioned the first movement and the perfect marrige between touch and pedal and the "senza sordino" as I remember it saying

And this is not a plug for me, but I really admire and love the work of Billy Joel, and I think he is one of the true artists in his time......at Steinway Hall in NYC Billy heard me playing the 2nd movement as I was waiting for my father and being the lover of the Master Composer that Mr Joel is, he walked downstairs and stood beside me as I played for him as he whistled along.....it is still an honor to share the story as only a true artist would react in such fashion.

As far as the beautiful Scherzo....in the long list of unfinished or incorrectly learned childhood peices, but that one is not to hard, much easier than the Sonata