Challenging teaching situations

[Bob]

How would you deal with teaching for 15-20 minute lessons once per week? 


And then to make it more interesting.... group lessons!   


The students begins knowing very little about music, having had little exposure, not knowing what a quarter note is, and not being able to keep a beat.


What do you do? 


To add a little more, not all students will show up and not everyone will remember their materials.



(I WISH this was a hypothetical situation.    Ridiculous, yes, but also reality in many,  many situations unfortunately.)

[ptmidwest]

ages of kids, number of kids, size of room, number of keyboards, your experience in this area, what factors considered in matching the kids into one group?

[Bob]

Grade schoolers, no more than five at a time, enough instruments for them all to have their own, students are grouped roughly by ability and age and whatever works in the schedule, room size is fine, my experience I wonder about but I think this is just a tough situation.

[sonatainfsharp]

I had an internship like this. They don't learn anything; it is just an "experience." Sad but true.

[ptmidwest]

I would agree with Sonata that most times that is the result, but I am also happy to be aware of situations where there is real forward progress.  I think the trick is to think about what kind of progress you are expecting...maybe there is an  important goal  besides a musical one.

Here are a couple non-musical, productive, rewarding results that could come about:

The kids have some fun together.  Groups are, after all, either going to generate social energy, or they are a real drag.  They will want to come back to something more fun than another class with that boring teacher;  is this more fun that that other class?

Some kids make friends, or find a friendly face, and have a social situation they look forward to--or at least they don't dread--expecially true in the very painful 5 thru 12 grades. 

Sometimes they can accomplish something, the teacher gets excited and goes absolutely wild, and they are proud of themselves. 

Sometimes they actually work hard--if ony for a minute--and now they have shared experience with pain/work/effort.  They bonded!  There is a club.

Great opportunity for the teacher to find out what they want.  Kids love to be asked, even if they don't have a clue.

Great opportunity for kids to "have a say" in what their goal is, or better yet, in how to go about achieving a goal.  They are much more likely to care if they feel they were heard.

All these are not a focused music rehearsal, but they do serve well as investment in  future success.  It's all a process, a long one, but obviously can be very rewarding.  All musicians who have played in chamber/band/orch know this.  How neat to be the one to open that world to these kids.

This completely omits that one piece that is so "cool/hard/drums always mess up/I can never get/loud/pretty/out of tune."  (They always brag/ gripe/ TALK about it.)

Questions:  Am i selling out the music by doing what it takes to get them to learn to love it? 
What can we as teachers do to make them want to "come back for more"?

[ptmidwest]

A BETTER REPLY WOULD HAVE BEEN:  Let them learn StarWars.


A third reply would have been:  This situation reminds me of when I had to learn about classroom management.  (Imagine horribly disastrous/embarrassing/hysterically stories and insert here.)  I was NOT gifted in that area, but it can be learned.

[MarkFour]

Yeah!  Starwars will get almost all of them hooked.

[BoliverAllmon]

Yeah!  Starwars will get almost all of them hooked.

or spongebob (shudders)

[whynot]

Wow.  Wow.  How about a secret ballot (kids love secrets) for what they want to learn to play, then teach them (short versions of) those melodies by rote.  When they can remotely do it, you can accompany them with chords and rhythm so they feel like they're in a band.  They will love that.  Maybe later on, you could introduce some easy notation, but if you have to make a choice, I'd definitely choose playing over reading.  And they probably will keep the beat once they know what notes to play.  Most kids can clap along or march to music, plus rhythm is contagious.  Well, very best of luck.  Wow.   

[ludwig]

Hi Bob, I have to teach recorder and baby keyboard in high school music lessons, to around 20-30 students in each class  It wasn't easy but I found the best way to do this (like exactly what whynot said)  is to learn from doing or playing, learning from experience is what they love. All I do is first I get a recording of the song we're going to learn in its original state, I then make melody + piano accompaniment sheet for the class, sometimes I also have a counter-melody or harmony line for them to divide into parts if they can get the original melody perfect (they love this ), I like choosing songs with an intro of usually 4-8bars, so I can play that on the piano and count them in. I choose songs that the kids can relate to, for year 7-8 kids I choose themes from movies and tv series, cartoons etc...

I have done recorder and piano accompaniment arrangements and one-hand melody lines for piano or voice, + piano accompaniment, and I compile into book format, so I can just go into the class and revise or learn new pieces The books are categorised according to difficulty, for example, for recorder arrangements I will introduce new notes every lesson, I will introduce more complex rhythms and even accidentals by looking at new songs with these concepts (you make the arrangements so it can be suited to what you want to teach, you can always add new elements into arrangements ie dynamics, key signatures, expressions etc once they know the basics)

I don't know how old your students are but I do teach notation from the start, if they can read pretty well they'll understand note names and look at the pattern on the stave fairly easily, I have recorder charts and keyboard pictures on the board for them if they are not sure where the notes are. I get them to first write the letter names above the notes on the stave from the charts, (I will eventually get them to only write certain notes ie all C and Gs on the stave, they will need to practice at home their set pieces and also reading skills because I constantly assess their progress with mini quizzes, they love practical exams


The lessons goes like this

*clapping exercises (imitating my rhythms)
*revise note values, put up 4 choices on the board for 4 different rhythmic patterns, get them to listen to each and repeat each like an ostinato, divde them into groups, and doing 2 or 3 or 4 at the same time (depends on their abilities), later on you can do rhythmic dictation, or even pick out which order you clapped the 4 patterns etc.... lost of possibilities, believe me, these will become a favourite routine for them and you can use body percussion, or percussive instruments for these too, it won't take long, this exercise when it becomes routine
*revising old notes learnt by first playing, then getting students to come up to the board and writing them on the stave, and demonstrating it on their instruments...the class imitates too, this will eventually become like a short scale exercise for warm up , you can do games with this, like point and play, imitating by sound alone, composing a short melody for a partner to play etc...
*on with the new notes and pieces, explain and show what new things to learn for today and goals to achieve on the board with specific details, (and also minutes in your own head for each exercise) then bashing through with sightreading
*practice piece as a class section by section, line by line, and divide the group to hear individual progress, then playing with piano accompaniment etc...

of course this will build up their repetoire and then whenever they want, they can pick a piece from their folders and play as a class The main thing is lesson plans and organisation, know exactly what is to be achieved from the class, even if its just experiences they will get...

I guess classroom management or group management skills are vital, you have to connect with the kids but still let them know who is in charge and all the rules make the lessons fun with cool repetoire they love, group and individual work (healthy competition), roles and specific goals they have to take/achieve, and finally learning music as another language to express and communicate with. I guess its a little different with my situation in a classroom in high school, if I get through to 10 kids out of the 20 I will be happy, you always have to include the students and not exclude, sometimes you might find yourself unconciously excluding some....but sometimes kids exclude themselves with no participation and disturbance because they are not interested with music, your goal would then to involve them specifically with a project, make them the conductor or percussion player within the ensemble and jobs like that...

With the catching up of work, make sure you say to them it is their responsibilites to come to you for any missed work and and new songs they haven't learnt, you'd be surprised and what kids can teach each other, they want to show their friends what they've missed and fill them in, if they don't do this, don't worry, it is not your responsibility to chase them up for work they've missed, it is impossible if you have several groups and a lot of students in each. It is always good to make CDs or tapes for songs they will be learning, so even catching up by imitating and listening is better than missed lessons.... goodluck Bob, hope this is of some help...

[joyfulmusic]

have you tried finding a student who gets it and have them do a few minutes.  I once got a baton and had 3 and 4 year olds conduct their friends as they played (and you can have them all place the same note or complete a major chord by giving several notes).  The "Conductor" then could have them play fast or slow.  I also have students write random notes all over the staff and the I "play what they wrote".  Basics, bascis you know?  Take plenty of "B" vitamins!  Sounds like a huge task>

[jeremyjchilds]

I'm not sure I understand the concept of the 15-20minute lessons...

[Bob]

Not really a piano issue, is it?

Take about 30 students.  You have two to three hours to teach them.  They play a variety of instrument and represent a variety of levels.  Some of them have no interest in music and will work against you.  Most have a slight interest and started the instrument because it looked cool or their friend was doing it. 

You have one day per week to teach them.  Their background is not strong in  music.  Many cannot keep a steady beat and are not too familiar with the idea of reading music. 

Not everyone's instrument will work because they're parents were too cheap to buy a decent one.

You need to be teaching the kids music (or so it would appear) AND you need to keep them happy (even at the expense of learning).  You need to keep their parents happy and pleased with their students progress.  You need to keep your supervisor happy -- Don't complain too much about the conditions because this is the person that set them up and they may have bent over backwards to give extra time.  (They can also fire you too).

Add to that not necessarily meeting every week because of other school activities or days off from school.  It may easily be two weeks before you see the kid again.

Add to that keeping other teachers happy because you make more work for them by removing these students from their classroom (even though it's your job).

So, for a typical lesson you have -- one sick student, one student that forgot their instrument, one student whose instrument does not work, one student that shows up when there is only 5 minutes left because they were taking a test, one student who couldn't practice because they were at their dad's that week and left their instrument at their mom's house (divorced parents), and one student who really did practice and is trying. 

Take their ability levels -- all are struggling.  Some don't know barely anything about reading music ("drummers" ), some can't keep a beat, some don't know their fingerings even though they've played the instrument for two years.  Some can produce a decent tone and can keep the beat most of the time. 

Take their personalities -- the model student, the academic student, the student who does everything, the whiner, the crier, the happy student that doesn't concentrate, the good natured clown student, the bad natured misbehaving student.

Add teacher exhaustion from the other classes meeting during the day, not getting enough sleep, stress, etc., etc., etc....


It's not like that everyday, but that's a bit like it.  Does my job suck now that I look at it that way.  Still, I am stuck with this situation and have made a commitment to improving it.  I am looking for ways to improve these lessons.  I have some answers, but want more.  Someday I will have a perfect school, with perfect kids, and a perfect schedule, (and the streets are paved with gold!), but until then I have this.



(Bob is done ranting after his mood dips with this thread).

[pianonut]

sounds like fifth grade band.  what grade/s are you teaching.  sounds like ludwig, and the others have it right.  jeremy says what i was thinking, too...maybe 20 minutes is just getting started.  30 minutes at least sounds better.  then you can actually beg for an hour when they see the results of more time.  of course, maybe that would drive you insane.  often wonder about band teachers.  they must be very special.

listening seems to be an important skill.  went to a band concert of my daughters and was appalled that they only had one dynamic - loud.  bang bang band, toot toot, crash, end.  isn't there a way to teach kids dynamics?  maybe when they are starting out, it's all about counting.  guess that i shouldn't be so critical because i CANT IMAGINE 20 to 30 kids at once.

just had a thought (never been a band instructor - so take this for what it's worth)...what if ...you paired up the more experienced players with not so experienced.  for the first 10 minutes - the 'teacher student' helps the 'primer student' set up music on stand properly.  gets instrument out.  runs through a standard warm up.  then - next 10 minutes  3 -5 sets of students gather (all violins)  and so on and run through their part.  then   you ONLY have to work the last 10 minutes with all of them all together.  the 20 minutes that you now have free - you work with the students that forgot their instrument and or need some morale boosting, or are not getting enough attention (mini lessons).  then when everyone is happy (like a family) - they work for you better.  yelling and all - never seems to make bands better.

ps my husband disagrees and says have two bands - honors band and trash band.  then the good ones don't suffer.  i don't exactly know how that one would work out.

pss bring a coke so you can get as wired as they are.

[ludwig]

hi pianonut, I've tried mixing the levels of the students up into one class (during prac lessons or band) because I was told to, after the older students left high school to go to uni/jobs etc, we have this every year basically.... I do think it is great to have sectionals, where the kids help each other to resolve tuning, fingering, breathing, technical, dynamics problems... It is always good to have a leader in these sectionals, a student whos great at team work and you can trust. This breaking down of practice is far more effective than having 30 kids in the class and talking/playing/not-concerntrating together... Its very important to explain your conducting techniques to them before starting, what is the gesture for dynamics, rhythms, togetherness etc...And always have a recording of the piece you are working on and play it to them constantly.

That is why I like group work/activities too, you've got to becareful though because in my "naughty" classes, I always seperate the students from their friends and make groups myself for them to work in, however, in the nice and sweet and quiet classes :p you can let them do groupwork with their friends (better results I have found), becareful to also not let students ponder or switch off in group work because they might be the quiet ones, make all of them contribute by giving roles, delegating, and taking turns to write/speak/present/play etc....And the kids will have to ring up or get together outside of class to work on certain things, and also a great solution for kids who didn't turn up to lesson or didn't do the work etc...

Bob, the other teachers get really pissed off in the higher grades with the music teachers when we have music evenings, galas, presentations etc... because their students who are involved will be behind in their other work, and their lessons will be chaos if they're doing experiments, group work, tests etc...It is always hard to organise but you've gotta be a bit selfish sometimes

And yes Joyfulmusic lots of vitamins/coffee/chocolate etc...it does help. At the end of the day, if your students (or just 5 or 6) had fun, and learnt something through that chaotic experience you think it was, it will be worth it, sometimes you feel like crap because you didn't think the lessons worked, but you never know what your students thought, some of them do appreciate your work

I sometimes prefer teaching students in high school more than teaching private piano at home or in music schools, because most students in schools have not had too many experiences with music (except for listening to popular songs on radio/cds) and your job is to expose a variety of styles and types of musical genre to them and making them appreciate them, so they are always experiencing new things they are foreign to, and critically thinking about them through listening, analysing, and then learning to express themselves through composing and performing. The key is to relate to them, go from what they're familiar with and then expand into other genres. Mix topic based units with concept based units (ie do a unit of tv music or film music or program music, then relate to program music in western classical music ie symphonie fantastique, tchaikovsky, debussy (with imagery and story basically) and then move onto graphic notation, how music is experienced from symbols, graphics, pictures, which is the opposite to how music depics the emotion/story from programmatic music).....am i being confusing now? :p

[pianonut]

unless you are talking about sturm-und-drang pics (like those of jp david).  just look at one for a bit and it starts moving.  people start killing each other, or the heroine turns whiter and moves off the stage.  at museums it's probably even worse...the lighting making it look so real...so that when you walk around the painting the people move (or,as in the mona lisa, the eyes move).

[bernhard]

Not really a piano issue, is it?

Take about 30 students.  You have two to three hours to teach them.  They play a variety of instrument and represent a variety of levels.  Some of them have no interest in music and will work against you.  Most have a slight interest and started the instrument because it looked cool or their friend was doing it. 

You have one day per week to teach them.  Their background is not strong in  music.  Many cannot keep a steady beat and are not too familiar with the idea of reading music. 

Not everyone's instrument will work because they're parents were too cheap to buy a decent one.

You need to be teaching the kids music (or so it would appear) AND you need to keep them happy (even at the expense of learning).  You need to keep their parents happy and pleased with their students progress.  You need to keep your supervisor happy -- Don't complain too much about the conditions because this is the person that set them up and they may have bent over backwards to give extra time.  (They can also fire you too).

Add to that not necessarily meeting every week because of other school activities or days off from school.  It may easily be two weeks before you see the kid again.

Add to that keeping other teachers happy because you make more work for them by removing these students from their classroom (even though it's your job).

So, for a typical lesson you have -- one sick student, one student that forgot their instrument, one student whose instrument does not work, one student that shows up when there is only 5 minutes left because they were taking a test, one student who couldn't practice because they were at their dad's that week and left their instrument at their mom's house (divorced parents), and one student who really did practice and is trying. 

Take their ability levels -- all are struggling.  Some don't know barely anything about reading music ("drummers" ), some can't keep a beat, some don't know their fingerings even though they've played the instrument for two years.  Some can produce a decent tone and can keep the beat most of the time. 

Take their personalities -- the model student, the academic student, the student who does everything, the whiner, the crier, the happy student that doesn't concentrate, the good natured clown student, the bad natured misbehaving student.

Add teacher exhaustion from the other classes meeting during the day, not getting enough sleep, stress, etc., etc., etc....


It's not like that everyday, but that's a bit like it.  Does my job suck now that I look at it that way.  Still, I am stuck with this situation and have made a commitment to improving it.  I am looking for ways to improve these lessons.  I have some answers, but want more.  Someday I will have a perfect school, with perfect kids, and a perfect schedule, (and the streets are paved with gold!), but until then I have this.



(Bob is done ranting after his mood dips with this thread).

Have you seriously considered the possibility that - after leading a sinful life - you died and are now in Hell, but you just don't realise it?

Anyway, how much freedom of action - or power -  do you have in this school (can you set the timetable for you lessons? can you decide who comes and who does not? Can you  teach smaller groups than 30?).

Ultimately this is what will limit how much you can do, so this has to be determined first.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ptmidwest]

Sectionals!  This is usually very helpful.

I don't mean every section at once, but one group at a time.  Of course, this means pulling a few kids out of class another time or two each week, but you can set up a rotating schedule so that a child does not always miss the same class.  (It takes a lot of time to set up this schedule the first time).  You will not get 100% attendance at these, either, but it helps.  An awful lot of US schools operate this way.

Teachers heave sighs and get exasperated, yes, but we all do that.  So do you.  You do what you have to do.  Try to ignore it.  Don't let it get you down. 

If you have admin's support, it helps immensely.  Constantly cultivating this is very tiring for many music teachers, but, alas...

The teachers I have seen who are most successful with this are the ones who are most enthusiastic about what the music kids are doing.  And yes, they fake it a lot.  But being charged and focused and interminably positive seems to be contagious. 

Very important:  Express your gratitude to the teachers for cooperating and supporting --not you, but--the kids' music education, (whether they really do or not), and express it at every concert or recital,  and thank them as if they are just great and amazing.  Always thank the parents, too, for their support.  Rounds of applause are in order, whether it is true or not.

Also important:  Always, always, have  "what's good for the kids" phrases on the tip of your tongue.  Practice the phrases.  (really)

[ptmidwest]

nope, I was wrong.  Bernhard is right.  hell.

[Bob]

Have you seriously considered the possibility that - after leading a sinful life - you died and are now in Hell, but you just don't realise it?

This thought has actually crossed my mind.  Bad karma maybe.  Darn me in my previous life!      Or Purgatory...  could be better, could be worse.


It's not all that bad.  Sometimes it is very frustrating though.


What are these "what's good for the kids" phrases ptm? 

(Bob imagines adding the phrase "because it's good for the kids" to the end of every sentence.  "Bob needs a raise... because it's good for the kids."  "I think I will have some icecream... because it's good for the kids.")


I'm off to continue pushing the boulder up the hill....