how fast can you scale chromatically?

[allchopin]

ok using your right hand (or actually just dominant hand) how fast can you play a full chromatic scale from top to bottom. my record is around 6 seconds... (and for that matter, what about left)

[ghgjff]

My fastest is about roughly 3 to 4 seconds.

[allchopin]

wow, how do you do this? i cant seem to break 6 seconds (like the 3 minute mile), it seems to be exponentiallly harder past that point.... i cant physically move my fingers that fast.

[ghgjff]

I have practiced a lot.

[danpianoman2003]

i can usually pass with about five seconds.  with the left hane it takes me about 7.

[danpianoman2003]

i can usually pass with about five seconds.  with the left hand, it takes me about 7.

[allchopin]

what fingering do u use?

[DrBob]

there are tricks to getting speed

I had to use one to get the L hand up to snuff for flight of the Bumblebee where the L hand has an ascending chromatic scale and the tempo is presto!

for speed:

play the first note and hold... play the next 4 notes as fast as you can and pause for a time then continue

once you have increased your velocity then try inverting the sequence and play the first 5 notes really fast and hold on the the last note

next play two units without a pause
ie  play the first note then play 9 notes fast

you can alsoplay 4 fast 4 slow 4 fast 4 slow
and syncopated rhythyms can help build speed

when playing the 4 notes fast think of the movement that kids use when they play that silly song with their knuckes by rolling across the notes.  The velocity comes for the fingers getting trained but also the shoulder moving the hand along the horizontal axis of the keyboard plus the wrist rolling a little also.

I sometimes use the chopin fingerings ( with the 4th finger) but mostly use the 13132 method because it feels more natural to me...

Bob S  Reno, NV

Bob S

[R.Q.]

I can play the chromatic scale up and down with both hands in 5 seconds. by themselves, my right hand (up and down) take 4 seconds, and since I'm left handed, my left takes 3 seconds. Being left handed help with Chopin!

[allchopin]

youngvirt, what fingereing do you use?

[RiskyP]

How in the... what? how? You guys play so quickly... how in the world can you get that fast? I mean 5 seconds from the lowest key all the way up to the top of the keyboard and down to the lowest key! I've been trying very hard just to get my C major scale to be fast, but it still takes me about 10 seconds to get from the bottom to the top to the bottom again... and I don't even do it very evenly AND I play 70 keys less than you!

How long does it take to acquire finger dexterity so that you can actually exectue these things with control? People keep telling me it will come with time, but I haven't been able to get faster or gain better control in quite a while.

[allchopin]

no, 5 seconds from just the top to the bottom. and dont worry, for me its only about 6.5 seconds after ive warmed up for hours.  

[RiskyP]

So you play the C major scale from the top to the bottom in 6.5 seconds, but you play the chromatic scale from top to bottom in 6 seconds? Is the chromatic scale easier?!

Maybe I misunderstood.

[allchopin]

now youre boggling my mind- i play the top-down chromatic in 6.5 seconds. i dunno about just the c scale, ive never timed that..

[DrBob]

Don't worry... they are NOT talking about playing the scale from the low end of the keyboard to the top in 3 or 6 seconds... that is not possible..

even the world's fastest drummer could not beat 88 times in 3 seconds ( world record is 1123 beats per minute or 18.7 beats per second.

they are talking about a one octave chromatic scale 12 notes plus the 13th I would assume repeating the starting note at the top.

The limits of human piano performance are about 12 -13 notes per second excepting of course a glissando type maneuver or other non sustained effort.    This corresponds to a metronome set to 184 to 194 and playing 4 notes per beat.

184 is the tempo Horowitz played the Flight of the Bumblebee.   The math works out to be about 12.3 notes per second so his chromatic scale would take about 1 second exactly.  an 88 key chromatic scale at this speed would take 7.17 seconds.  Anyone claiming to be able to do an 88 key chromatic scale in less time than that is surely exagerating.



Bob S   Reno, NV

[allchopin]

hehe bob i dont think you have much faith in us! i really can do a full chromatic scale TOP TO BOTTOM COIMPLETELY in just over 6 seconds, despite physics!   now the 3 second deal by young virtuoso, i dunno... that seems stretching it, but yes, 88 keys in 6 seconds is feasible. Horowitz didnt necessarily play FOBB as fast as he could either- just at the given tempo. im sure if they could have timed him his full chromatic woulda been around 3 seconds.  BTW, hmoll, i have tried that double octave deal and is incredibly hard! why did he do this??

[R.Q.]

Probably the fastest chromatic scale of all time was Liszt's. That was his special effect - the 'octave storm'.

~ Young Virtuoso

[allchopin]

the 'octave storm' huh. ive never heard of it, and neither has Google... where did you hear of this??

[R.Q.]

I 'octave storm' in parentheses because I didn't remember exactly what he called it. read about it in Harold Schonberg's book "The Great Pianist's" Which you should read anyway!

[NetherMagic]

youngvirtuoso are you sure it's 3 seconds?  because that's AWFULLY fast, i ean i strain myself and all i can do is maybe at max when im having a good day 5 seconds from top to bottom

perhaps you can do a short video clip of your chromatic playing like wut joe townley always does?  I'm sure you can host a 3-second wmv/mpg clip =]

im sure all of us here would wanna see the actual playing ourselves   , well at least i for one

[R.Q.]

allchopin: I have found what Liszt called his Octave chromatics! "Grand Galope Chromatique" fancy sound, huh? Maybe Google has heard of that  

NetherMagic: I have absolutely no idea how to make a video clip of myself and then put in on the net. And even if I could, I never give personal information, such as how I look, on a forum of any kind. By the way, while you're all being sceptical about me, you seem to have forgotten that I'm not the only person here who can do the chromatic scale at his best in 3 seconds - read the second post on this thread. And ask yourself, how come you're not up to par?  

~ Young Virtuoso

[Ktari]

damnit! I know why ~I~ can't do it -I keep tripping up at the top and bottom of the keyboard! First, at the bottom, it's just hard for me to start on the... *makes a face* A.. (it IS an A right?? *runs downstairs to check her piano*... didn't really check) gah now i feel stupid, and then at the top i always screw up the last octave, maybe cause I see the top edge approaching... hahaha can i time half the keyboard and multiply? *grins*

[xenon]

i used to be able to do it in just under 5 seconds, but i fractured my thumb and it didnt heal properly, so i can only get just under 6 seconds.

i find that descending is easier, don't you?  "gravity" seems to pull it down.  in beethoven's sonata "Pathetique", theres a descending 128th note chromatic passage that brings the piece into the vivace/presto section, and the regular chrmatic fingering is too slow.  a great fingering is something like 43213214321...

[88_keys]

3 seconds for the entire keyboard does sound a bit beyond human ability... On the other hand, accurately measuring such a short time interval is not an easy thing to do.

Exactly how did you time it, YoungVirtuoso?

Using the seconds hand of an ordinary watch, "3 seconds" could mean anything between 3 and 4 seconds. And I don't think any serious pianist here doubts that a time of 3.9 seconds - that's 22.5 notes per sec - is possible. A time of 3.0 seconds... that's a whole different story.

Anyway, to get a more accurate figure, you'll have to ask a friend to time you with a stopwatch.

Feel free to post the results of this measurement here. If you report it to be 3.0 seconds, I will believe you.  But anything below 3.4-3.5 seconds will definitely be a surprise.

[JohnOgdon]

Why on earth do you care? What piece that is worth playing requires you to play a chromatic scale in 3 seconds? There are far more important things in life than assessing pianistic abilities with a stopwatch that are thoroughly divorced from musical situations.

[GG]

Thank you John Ogdon. Finally somebody brought music back into the picture

[allchopin]

Well, on Earth, people sometimes like to care about other things than what you care about, in this case, the chromatic scale.  This way, there is a certain diversity in the forum that would never be found otherwise.

The topic is simply for fun- plus I am interested in this because I have been practicing it for years and I would like to gauge my abilities, as well as see how other people from other countries perform.
Btw, you could have at least put your time on your post.

[88_keys]

Yeah... pianists need their fun too  

[eddie92099]

Yeah... pianists need their fun too  

Musicians don't,
Ed

[88_keys]

Ed, what do you mean?

[eddie92099]

I think it's fairly self-explanatory,
Ed

[JohnOgdon]

Ed, What are you talking about?
Obviously I am a minority here, so here is an interesting piece of information. When horowitz was young, he gave a masterclass somewhere (god knows) and he was showing off to the students - he would tell one to play a glissando from the top to the bottom of the keyboard, and at the same time he would start a chromatic scale. apparently he used to beat them every time to the bottom. from "remebering horowitz" by dubal

[allchopin]

I dont buy that- I think people like to hype up Horowitz more and more until he has reached a God-like state.  I guarantee that he could not play a full chromatic in 1 second, because that is how fast I could play a glissando.  Perhaps the students were taught how to play a 'slower' glissando for this to work...  

[88_keys]

I think it's fairly self-explanatory

No, it isn't.

On the face of it, you seem to make the claim that musicians don't need any fun...  But surely you didn't mean to say anything so absurd?

[88_keys]

By the way, for DrBob who claims the limits of human performers is around 12-13 notes per seconds:

This is only true for complex melody lines. And even then composers sometimes ask for a bit more (see Chopin's "Winterwind Etude", Op. 25/11 - 13.8 notes per second with pretty wild skips).

For a simple chromatic scale, 12-13 notes per second is actually not that fast at all. Just so you'll have an idea how relatively easy this is:

Yesterday morning, I went straight from bed to the piano and timed a full-keyboard chromatic scale. The result: 7.4 seconds.

So apperantly, a very medicore pianist (me) can do nearly 12 notes per second while still being half-asleep, and without any warmup...

[eddie92099]

I'm just saying that there is no point in being able to play a fast chromatic scale if there is no 'higher' purpose (i.e. that of the music itself) for it to serve. Music is played in a concert, tricks are done in a circus,
Ed

[Magnus]

How do you guys take the time??  I've tried to take the time alone but I cant do it.  Do you sit with a watch?

[Magnus]

Btw: which note do you begin at?

[meiting]

How fast can you scale chromatically?!! Don't you guys have anything BETTER to do?

jeeezus.

[xenon]

Like practicing piano?

[allchopin]

I guess I could do normal scales, but wheres the fun in That

[Magnus]

I had some problems taking the time, but is it the chromaticall scale up and down? I made it in 2sec.

[bitus]

I might have understood it wrong... but are you talking about doing a chromatic scale from c4 to c5 and back?
If that's the case... anybody who cannot do it in less than 3 seconds should consider droping the idea of being a pianist... If it's the fingering that's the problem, try this for the right hand (though i don't see why playing with both hands at the same time should alter the time at all) 12 13 123 12 12 12 and back. If you decide to put finger 4, then it automaticly makes it much harder... but it works out your technique much better.
I timed myself and first time without warming up i did it in 2.5  It seems a lot but it's not... Just think about it: if a person can type with 10 characters/second at all the standard typing programs... a pianist who practices daily the same thing... shouldn't be able to do the same thing if not better? I am sure it's far from impossible to do the chromatic scale even in 1.5 sec.
Bitus

[allchopin]

guys, its not rocket science.
Just from the top C all the way to the bottom A- thats it.  And Magnus, you may want to retime that.

[DrBob]

To time oneself simply use a metronome.  88 notes in 3 seconds works out to 29.3 notes per second.

Set the metronome to 60 and play 8 notes per beat to yield 8 notes per second and an 88 note chromatic scale in 11 seconds.

Set the metronome to 120, 8 notes per beat and you get 16 notes per second and an 88 note chromatic scale in 5.5 seconds

Set the metronome to 152 and play 8 notes per beat which yields 20.26 notes per second and an 88 note scale in 4.34 seconds.

Metronome at 184 with 8 notes per beat gets you an 88 note scale in 3.58 seconds.

You'd have to get to a metronome setting of 220 playing 8 notes per beat to play a 3 second scale of 88 notes.

My metronome doesn't even go that high... the max setting I have is 208.

Take a metronome set it to 208 or the highest setting you have and using a trill for testing or a 5 note scale play one note per beat, then 2 notes per beat then 4 notes per beat then 8 notes per beat if you can do it just to get an idea of how fast you need to go. sustain the effort for 3 or 4 seconds to play at least 88 notes worth.

I highly doubt that even a trill can be played at 29.3 notes per second.  

But you can try timing yourself for fun and for the challenge of it.

Bob S  Reno, NV

[bitus]

Very good point, Dr. Bob...
Bitus

[xenon]

Indeed, that is a very good point.  My fingers definately don't move that fast.  

[Magnus]

ehhh......... allchopin....... When I said 2sec.
I meant from c1 to c2 and down to c1 again.
Sorry. I misunderstood.

Magnus

[stevie]

Why on earth do you care? What piece that is worth playing requires you to play a chromatic scale in 3 seconds? There are far more important things in life than assessing pianistic abilities with a stopwatch that are thoroughly divorced from musical situations.