Technology as helping tool to be honest on this forum

[musicrebel4u]

I think, it is not that hard now days to take a video of your lessons, students, different teaching technique and place it on youtube.

I read many posts of experienced teachers about their 'outstanding achievements'. I can't wait to SEE this achievement by my eyes (no audio recording, please)

My video achievements are collected mostly here:

os?user=lenkaolenka&p=r

If somebody from today, July 19 of 2008 is going to criticize these videos, first he/she suppose to prove me wrong by placing their own students and lessons on display.

Best regards, Musicrebel4u


 

[m19834]

That is a good point, M4U.  I am in the process of collecting that information for my own purposes and I don't know that I would decide to use my students for that, but I get your point.  There is always continuous learning, and there is a lot that needs to be learned and have come together.  It is difficult to capture all of that in a set of videos at specific points in time.  There are pros that I see to what you do, but I don't necessarily see that what is happening for your students is any better than what is happening for mine.

[musicrebel4u]

That is a good point, M4U.  I am in the process of collecting that information for my own purposes and I don't know that I would decide to use my students for that, but I get your point.  There is always continuous learning, and there is a lot that needs to be learned and have come together.  It is difficult to capture all of that in a set of videos at specific points in time.  There are pros that I see to what you do, but I don't necessarily see that what is happening for your students is any better than what is happening for mine.

Exactly!
Sometimes it is important to see one student (rendomly selected) in 1-3 years. Or lesson when one or another concept is being taught.
I was training many piano teachers. They came to Houston, watched my lessons and sometimes were criticising this and that
After some time I was visiting their studios to see how they doing and you know, their attitude was very different!
They were less willing to criticise and more willing to listen
Because when you watch, you think that you can do better
But when you try yourself you understand that it is not as easy as it seems

[m]

If somebody from today, July 19 of 2008 is going to criticize these videos, first he/she suppose to prove me wrong by placing their own students and lessons on display.

That's right! And from today, July 19 of 2008, if somebody is going to criticize Horowitz, or for that matter anybody else, first, you must post your own recording to provide an evidence you can do it better 

OOOOOOPS 

Besides, that's YOU, who came to this board with sole goal to SPAM and sell, so please, don't complain.

[m19834]

I guess the thing is, M4U, I have to say that I absolutely work my A$$ off with what I do (nobody will ever know exactly how much, aside from me (though my husband has a pretty good sense of it)).  I have to work my A$$ off for us to make a living and pay the mortgage, and don't you think that if I saw something that seemed to promise me more money and better results, that I would jump at the chance ?  I am questioning these strategies in earnest because I care most about what kind of musician I am raising.  That is one of the whole reasons I am in this business.  Don't you see that for me to take you seriously, I need you to take me seriously ?

Right now, softmozart is just not the first thing on my list as far as better music education.  I have some other ideas that I am wanting to try first.  Maybe someday it will be, but I can assure it is not going to be because of you telling me that I don't care about music education and that I am not a good teacher.  You just really have no idea about that at all.  And, what people are endorsing on your behalf and on behalf of the program, well, that doesn't live my life for me, now does it !  

I know you have worked hard, too, and I sincerely respect that as far as I can from what I know of you and your work.  Unfortunately, most of what I know of you are your comments here about "people like me," when you really have no idea who I am.  You are not the only person taking these things seriously, M4U, and living in some cloud, thinking that you are is just plain ignorance and delusion.  If you can't "get" that, then that is your own, personal problem, hell, and burden to live with, not mine.

[musicrebel4u]

[musicrebel4u]

I guess the thing is, M4U, I have to say that I absolutely work my A$$ off with what I do (nobody will ever know exactly how much, aside from me (though my husband has a pretty good sense of it)).  I have to work my A$$ off for us to make a living and pay the mortgage, and don't you think that if I saw something that seemed to promise me more money and better results, that I would jump at the chance ?  I am questioning these strategies in earnest because I care most about what kind of musician I am raising.  That is one of the whole reasons I am in this business.  Don't you see that for me to take you seriously, I need you to take me seriously ?

Right now, softmozart is just not the first thing on my list as far as better music education.  I have some other ideas that I am wanting to try first.  Maybe someday it will be, but I can assure it is not going to be because of you telling me that I don't care about music education and that I am not a good teacher.  You just really have no idea about that at all.  And, what people are endorsing on your behalf and on behalf of the program, well, that doesn't live my life for me, now does it !  

I know you have worked hard, too, and I sincerely respect that as far as I can from what I know of you and your work.  Unfortunately, most of what I know of you are your comments here about "people like me," when you really have no idea who I am.  You are not the only person taking these things seriously, M4U, and living in some cloud, thinking that you are is just plain ignorance and delusion.  If you can't "get" that, then that is your own, personal problem, hell, and burden to live with, not mine.

Karli,
in 2006 a lady from Madrid came to Houston to receive my training. She learned about Soft Mozart over the Internet and she came for training ( even though she was accomplished pianist and educator)

Now, 2 years later she has a school of 140 students.

Here some pictures/ On the wall - Soft Mozart sertificates:


You may create a whill as much as you want, but like one well known educator stated on Ukranian TV - music education HAS NO ALTERNATIVE, THE ONLY WAY IS - SOFT MOZART.

I have 3-4 TV stories to place on youtube, but it takes time to translate all in English and add to videos

[m]

You may create a whill as much as you want, but like one well known educator stated on Ukranian TV - music education HAS NO ALTERNATIVE, THE ONLY WAY IS - SOFT MOZART.

That's the part which scares me the most...

[musicrebel4u]

That's the part which scares me the most...

Well,
You are scared, because as many other educators you think that teaching is a 'philosophy' and there are many different methods that could serve the purpose.

But if you ever learned about Comenius and his rules of didactics (from concrete to abstract, from simple to advanced etc) you would understand that teaching is a … science and has its limits due to the limits of human perception.

Musically inclined people 'SEE' with their ears. Grand Staff unsuited for human's visual perception, because our eyesight works this way:

It explains why all written languages on Earth are linear.

Music lessons with beginners are so teacher intensive and it takes so much struggle to teach notation just because physiologically beginners unable to focus.

This is the key why there is no alternative, but to train human eye to read music score with multiple line interactively.

[pianowolfi]

Well this is a video of one of my students who has really learned to take care of the sound and not only of the notes.

I am very careful with publishing videos of my students, this one I have put on youtube only after making sure that she and her mom agrees, it's not my usual habit.

[general disarray]

Well this is a video of one of my students who has really learned to take care of the sound and not only of the notes.

Very impressive, pianowolfi.   Beautiful, evocative playing from one so young.  Such a relaxed and natural approach to the keyboard, too.  Congratulations to you both.

p.s. the piece is very haunting, too.

[m19834]

Yes, Wolfi, I was kind of hoping you may post this clip.  The overall presentation of the music is something that is very natural and puts me, as a listener, at ease.  When I see a clip like this vs. someone whom as been raised by a computer, there is just more life and soul to it, a music that is so much more human.

I would say, in all fairness, that this is one thing for one student to "get" it.  What I do see about M4U's "invention" is that it could pick up stragglers who may not readily progress in the "standard" lesson format -- half an hour, once a week -- and help them to at least read.  In that regard, I think that is very fair of her to bring up and I can sympathize with that, however softmozart is certainly not my immediate answer to that "problem."  I think this way because, out of all of the videos I have watched of M4U's, I have never heard them listening to the piano tones in the same way that your student is apparently listening (which is part of what gives it such an effective presentation). 

All of this is not to imply that all of your students are not up to a similar standard.  And, I am sure there are some students of softmozart who are just as scrambly at the piano bench as some students are in regular lessons, we just don't see those videos.  I guess my point is that I would, at this point in time, much prefer to be engaged in an experience with my students that is feeding and expressing the soul (and I can almost bet what M4U's rebuttal would be to that !), but I also feel it is important to be reaching *each* student in a way that will help them develop.  Again, not an argument against you, just my own personal working-out of how I would like to conduct lessons.

Well, there is more to say but I have to rush away !  I know M4U is not "into" actually having a discussion about these things, and is more into jamming things down throats (therefore I am not actually trying to get her to responsd, though I suspect she most definitely will !), but I have realized it is probably a good thing for other music and piano teachers to pay close attention to what is "out there" and for us to be able to discuss it honestly together !  And, if nothing else, I think M4U's "product" and "influence" are at least worth a discussion at this point, since she is apparently aiming to take over the world  .

[pianowolfi]

That's the part which scares me the most...

Yes it sounds quite a bit sectarian, doesn't it.

[musicrebel4u]

Well this is a video of one of my students who has really learned to take care of the sound and not only of the notes.

I am very careful with publishing videos of my students, this one I have put on youtube only after making sure that she and her mom agrees, it's not my usual habit.

Well, what should I say?
I don't hear music - I hear a lot of pedal and enforced 'character' that girl don't feel because has no developed music mind
The piece was learned for several months or year
I see bordom in playing, no sparcle
technique is very poor and hands are not free

PS All my students and parents also give me permission to place their work on Internet

[pianowolfi]

Well I respect your opinion, of course. Just to say, the pedalling is mostly used as the composer has written in the score. And I know for sure that there's a difference between boredom and atmosphere

[general disarray]

Well, what should I say?
I don't hear music - I hear a lot of pedal and enforced 'character' that girl don't feel because has no developed music mind
The piece was learned for several months or year
I see bordom in playing, no sparcle
technique is very poor and hands are not free

Perception is an odd thing, isn't it?  I saw rapt attention instead of "boredom."  I heard the young lady sustaining a relective mood over the entire range of the piece.  The pedalling, as applied by the student, obviously supported the mood and was anything but excessive.

I saw a beautiful hand position.  Quiet, close to the keys, tension-free.  Exactly what is required to be "free" at the keyboard.  Her performance, which was solid, is the result of real musicality and a well-trained technique that enables her to achieve both the composer's and her goals.

Flailing hands and fingers -- as I see in your students -- breeds inaccuracy and unpleasant tone on acoustic instruments.

I can't imagine that you can't see this as an accomplished performance by a young artist.

[thierry13]

"It's not a product, I'm not selling pizza here. It's a very important breaktrough in music education."

L
M
F
A
O

[thierry13]

Perception is an odd thing, isn't it?  I saw rapt attention instead of "boredom."  I heard the young lady sustaining a relective mood over the entire range of the piece.  The pedalling, as applied by the student, obviously supported the mood and was anything but excessive.

I saw a beautiful hand position.  Quiet, close to the keys, tension-free.  Exactly what is required to be "free" at the keyboard.  Her performance, which was solid, is the result of real musicality and a well-trained technique that enables her to achieve both the composer's and her goals.

Flailing hands and fingers -- as I see in your students -- breeds inaccuracy and unpleasant tone on acoustic instruments.

I can't imagine that you can't see this as an accomplished performance by a young artist.

Agreed 100%. She is NOT a musician (obviously), but a pedagogue. She is mean and will obviously say bad things about other people's videos even if their students are 10 times better (and that's objectively, subjectively I'd put them at 20 times better)! It's simply a fact that she has nothing extraordinary, but I'm starting to personally hate her. She deserves a ban for spam and trying to sell a PRODUCT that is at best a GAME and a LOSS OF TIME over a forum dedicated to MUSIC.

[musicrebel4u]

but I'm starting to personally hate her. She deserves a ban for spam and trying to sell a PRODUCT that is at best a GAME and a LOSS OF TIME over a forum dedicated to MUSIC.

And I just falling in love with you! 
No video, no proof and a lot of emotions and hatress. How proffesional!

[musicrebel4u]

Well I respect your opinion, of course. Just to say, the pedalling is mostly used as the composer has written in the score. And I know for sure that there's a difference between boredom and atmosphere

I wrote a post and it just disappeared((
The point is:
ANY performance like that could be criticised. Somebody just hate Richter or Glen Guld ( if you would go to music forums you would read many interesting and negative thoughts even about world class performers)
here is a TEACHING forum. I want to see progress of the child, the way you teach the child, the time was spend in teaching a piece etc

For example how I teach dtudents to hear harmony and pick up chords by ear:

And how they learning the same by themselves

[musicrebel4u]

Here is 2 more examples:
Waltz of Khachaturyan - 7th grade of Russian state music school read, learned and memorized by student who had lessons for year long time ago for a year and quit

It took her 2 weeks to learn the piece and even though she is not having perfect technique but obviousely it contributed to her overall music development

Another girl started piano lessons 9 months ago, learned many pieces and Prokofiev in 3 weeks:

[keypeg]

M4U, you have the little boy learning minor chords, and you give him the imagery of the mother, child and father.  Next you have 5 year old girl.  Is she doing the next step after what the boy has done?  Did she come to the idea of humming the ABC's melody by herself, or was that part of the teaching at some point?

KP

[m19834]

"It's not a product, I'm not selling pizza here. It's a very important breaktrough in music education."

L
M
F
A
O

Yes, I was thinking about this today.  In some way I actually think M4U is correct and in some ways if she really believes that to the bone, I think she is absolutely fooling herself (and apparently others).  What is not a product, and what I believe her actual purpose is in developing the system, are the principles of learning that she claims to be the backbone of her mission.  There are some good points in her approach to learning in general, and I think they are points that every teacher can be honestly considering and asking themselves if they agree and if they are achieving them should they agree.  However, the software and the program is indeed a product, even if it is built to support the principles of learning which are not.  Where she is very wrong about it is that it is not the only way to support nor build from the principles of learning that she is supposedly advocating, and what ends up happening is that she winds up pedalling a product, based on principles that every teacher "should" and probably already are considering (so they are bamboozled into feeling like they agree).  

What is dangerous, I think, in life, is to become fastened so tightly to one paritcular thing that it becomes a limitation rather than an aid to progress.  No matter what, even if everybody in the world were hooked on this product, it would eventually be outgrown as society progressses.  In that respect, I actually feel kind of badly for M4U since it seems all of her apples are in a basket that is sure to have a limited success.

I agree with her that working on one piece for months is not ultimately productive, and I agree that the "standard" lesson formats are in many, many cases, not effecient.  I agree that learning should/can be cognitive (though I do not experience it as a straight line by any means), and I agree that maintaining a point of focus is important.  I also agree that any performance can be picked apart, as a matter of fact, almost anything that any of us do and say can be picked apart, but what's the point if we don't find an alternative ?  What I do not agree on is that her points should be ignored just because of her approach to "discussing" them, and I do not agree that softmozart is thee way to achieve all of the points she mentions as being the purpose of the product.

For me personally, I would like to be considering what are the points and how do we go about having alternatives to something we do not agree with.  That is what is missing from these conversations, and in that respect, I would not blame M4U to keep pushing.  In my opinion, how society is functioning and how music is being respected are indeed not good enough.  At some point(s), somebody, some people do have to decide "okay, what are the alternatives ?" -- I just happen to think it should be an elastically fantastic alternative.

[musicrebel4u]

M4U, you have the little boy learning minor chords, and you give him the imagery of the mother, child and father.  Next you have 5 year old girl.  Is she doing the next step after what the boy has done?  Did she come to the idea of humming the ABC's melody by herself, or was that part of the teaching at some point?

KP

Tonica, Subdominant and Dominant could be in Major and Minor
The lesson with boy was recorded for explenation point and the girl was recorded during her practice alone
All my students play different pieces in different keys and the ABC piece was in the list, that the girl was following.

[musicrebel4u]

Yes, I was thinking about this today.  In some way I actually think M4U is correct and in some ways if she really believes that to the bone, I think she is absolutely fooling herself (and apparently others).  What is not a product, and what I believe her actual purpose is in developing the system, are the principles of learning that she claims to be the backbone of her mission.  There are some good points in her approach to learning in general, and I think they are points that every teacher can be honestly considering and asking themselves if they agree and if they are achieving them should they agree.  However, the software and the program is indeed a product, even if it is built to support the principles of learning which are not.  Where she is very wrong about it is that it is not the only way to support nor build from the principles of learning that she is supposedly advocating, and what ends up happening is that she winds up pedalling a product, based on principles that every teacher "should" and probably already is considering.  

What is dangerous, I think, in life, is to become fastened so tightly to one paritcular thing that it becomes a limitation rather than an aid to progress.  No matter what, even if everybody in the world were hooked on this product, it would eventually be outgrown as society progressses.  In that respect, I actually feel kind of badly for M4U since it seems all of her apples are in a basket that is sure to have a limited success.

I agree with her that working on one piece for months is not ultimately productive, and I agree that the "standard" lesson formats are in many, many cases, not effecient.  I agree that learning should/can be cognitive (though I do not experience it as a straight line by any means), and I agree that maintaining a point of focus is important.  I also agree that any performance can be picked apart, as a matter of fact, almost anything that any of us do and say can be picked apart, but what's the point if we don't find an alternative ?  What I do not agree on is that her points should be ignored just because of her approach to "discussing" them, and I do not agree that softmozart is thee way to achieve all of the points she mentions as being the purpose of the product.

For me personally, I would like to be considering what are the points and how do we go about having alternatives to something we do not agree with.  That is what is missing from these conversations, and in that respect, I would not blame M4U to keep pushing.  In my opinion, how society is functioning and how music is being respected are indeed not good enough.  At some point(s), somebody, some people do have to decide "okay, what are the alternatives" -- I just happen to think it should be an elastically fantastic solution, and not something that ends up binding a person to it for a certain amount of time.

I am a piano teacher. I love what I do. I love the
children, I love their parents and their families, I
love the relationships I build through teaching, and I
love being able to be a part of their lives teaching
what I believe to be the single most important thing I
could teach...the gift of music.

I have recently been looking for a different, possibly
better, way to teach piano. I consider myself an
excellent piano teacher, with years of experience and
?proof? of what I do best...teaching students how to
play piano. I have always been looking for a better
method in which to teach. I became frustrated with
the current methods, which, although they are good and
sometimes effective, were not always so. I had too
many experiences with students who had been playing
piano for 3 years, but still did not read music. They
were reading finger numbers through hand positions.
It was not for a lack of trying. These students
diligently practiced. They worked hard. It just
didn?t work for everyone, and some eventually burned
out and quit. I knew there had to be a better way,
and thus began my search.

While I was surfing the internet, I came across
Hellene Hiner?s website doremifasoft.com, introducing
the ?Soft Way to Mozart?. I became intrigued. I
phoned Ms. Hiner, who answered the phone personally,
and told her I was interested in learning more about
her software. Could I come to Houston? Emphatically
and enthusiastically she answered ?YES?.

I flew to Houston in the next couple of weeks. She
and her husband Valerie met me at the airport and
after checking me into the motel (which she had
arranged herself), took me into their home and their
studio to introduce me to this amazing software.
After observing several students that first day, from
2 year olds to 45 year olds, I was more interested
than ever. Sweet little what seemed to be no more
than babies were successfully playing ?Hot Cross Buns?
with both hands. A 14 year old boy was playing the
theme from ?Harry Potter?. He had taken piano for
three months. A 45 year old mother was learning how
to play because it was her dream to learn to play the
piano, and was thrilled to be playing a Bach Minuet.
She had been playing 7 months. They were all reading
music. Yes, it was on the computer screen, but it was
some form of music. All of these students were every
day students like I have taught my whole life, from
every day families. They were not geniuses. They
were real, and they loved what they were learning.

I had several concerns going into this training. My
first one being that I was not willing to give up the
one-on-one instruction I so loved doing. That fear
was alleviated quickly as I watched Ms. Hiner teach.
The software enhances her teaching, and actually makes
it easier and more fun. It replaces the method books,
and is a wonderful teaching tool.

Another big concern I had was the keyboard. I am a
classically trained pianist, and have taught
classically for 20 years. I have a lot of pride in
what I do, and love the acoustic piano for the lovely
instrument it is. I dislike the sound of electronic
keyboards, and do not want the children to exclusively
play on them, without experiencing the acoustic piano.
I was concerned that the keyboard would not properly
train the muscles in the hands, and that the children
would become mechanical and lazy in their playing. It
was at Ms. Hiner?s Winter Recital that I got to
witness every one of her students, with the exception
of a couple of 2 and 3 year olds, go straight to the
grand piano and play for memory some amazing
literature, and play them very well. They were
playing with free hands, and some of the more advanced
students were actually figuring out for themselves
correct hand placement and correct fingering. And,
they were smiling, even through the small errors they
were doing.

While I was with Ms. Hiner, I saw her dream...to give
every child an opportunity for true music education.
To teach them how to read music. To teach them how to
sit down at the keyboard and actually play real songs.
To teach them the joy and the magic of the great
composers. To give them an alternative way that
actually works better than the age-old methods which
keep them playing boring songs in a few hand position
for years, without truly teaching them how to read
music. I saw her dream, and became infected with her
passion.

I am eternally grateful to Ms. Hiner. I am grateful
that she and her gracious husband took me into their
home and studio and lives, spent four uninterrupted
days with me, patiently answering all my questions,
helping to alleviate all my fears about computers and
keyboards, offering me unending support, and being my
mentors and friends for life. They are both true
geniuses, and their passion for their work is
contagious.

If you are a classical piano teacher with doubts,
fears, and anxiety about this program, I implore you
to think ?outside the box? and open your minds to a
new way of teaching. Ms. Hiner is not out to destroy
piano teachers. She is here to help you, to help your
students, and to introduce you to a brand new,
incredible way to teach students how to read music.
She is not out to raise piano performers. She is not
here to teach perfection in performance. She is here
to teach students how to successfully read music and
to give them an appreciation for the classics and to
have fun while they are doing it. From there,
classical musicians will be raised, for if they find
they have a true gift and love for playing the piano,
the foundation is laid beautifully.
Luanne Harms

[keypeg]

Tonica, Subdominant and Dominant could be in Major and Minor
The lesson with boy was recorded for explenation point and the girl was recorded during her practice alone
All my students play different pieces in different keys and the ABC piece was in the list, that the girl was following.

I don't think you understood my question.  I was trying to follow the pedagogy.  You have given the boy certain principles and ideas, and you are also teaching some things about patterns in music in a picturesque manner.  The girl is playing the same kinds of musical patterns.  I was wondering whether there was a sequence to this and we were seeing it in sequence, or it was just a coincidence.  I am not interested in the pieces per se - they are vehicle for learning.  I am interested in the fact that there are different concepts and aspects of music being conveyed. The girl looks like she is at a further stage, since she is now practicing independently, while the boy was having things introduced.

Not that it matters, but I thought that the dominant is always in Major, since in a minor key the 7th (middle note) gets sharped.

KP

[musicrebel4u]

I don't think you understood my question.  I was trying to follow the pedagogy.  You have given the boy certain principles and ideas, and you are also teaching some things about patterns in music in a picturesque manner.  The girl is playing the same kinds of musical patterns.  I was wondering whether there was a sequence to this and we were seeing it in sequence, or it was just a coincidence.  I am not interested in the pieces per se - they are vehicle for learning.  I am interested in the fact that there are different concepts and aspects of music being conveyed. The girl looks like she is at a further stage, since she is now practicing independently, while the boy was having things introduced.

Not that it matters, but I thought that the dominant is always in Major, since in a minor key the 7th (middle note) gets sharped.

KP

Dear Keypeg, ALL music based on 3 functions: T S D. Other chords are just modification of these 3 functions and in our system we have elementary level (when student plays these 3 functions in sertain position) in order to be able to pich left hand for any melody in future.

The boy is doing the same thing at home or in classroom like the girl. First kids learn to play 'shell chords' in major : C, F, G, D, B-flat, A, E-flat (this is what boy already passed) and then they play shell chords in Minor : A, E, D, G, B, Fa-sharp, C

After that students learn how to pick by ear full chords in all these keys.

The story about T, S and D are just a little 'cherry on the cake', because the students mostly have to do it and catch the harmonic function intuitevely. 

[m]

You don't give up, don't you, still posting some "reviews", which do yourself more harm than good and creating even more resistance...

Well, what should I say?
I don't hear music - I hear a lot of pedal and enforced 'character' that girl don't feel because has no developed music mind
The piece was learned for several months or year
I see bordom in playing, no sparcle
technique is very poor and hands are not free

Sorry, but one or the other (or both together)--whether you are not straight again, or you indeed don't understand something. I judged enough competitions for kids (for many years about 3 or 4 a year) and seen hundreds and hundreds to have enough experience to know how kids play piano and to see behind their playing pedagogical work and teacher's priorities.

When we talk about kids performances from the point of vew of pedagogical work, we do not evaluate interpretation as with Richter or Glenn Gould, but talk about what it is in a teacher's conciousness, what teacher's general priorities. What teacher pays attention working with kids. Unmistakenably you can see a good pedagogical work and if you are such a professional as you say, you would agree there is ALWAYS a tendency in every teacher's work, regardless if the kid is a good student or not. From this point of view your "before criticising show me your work" sounds somewhat childish and not as professional, as you might think. Besides, this is not WE who need to prove ourselves, but somehow it seems this is YOU who trys so hard to do it.

Now regarding the latest videos you have posted:
Khachaturian--there is something wrong with this video, it seems the young lady plays completely different piece. In any case, to me the "performance" sounds like a MIDI, so I won't even bother talking about it.

Prokofiev March--it seems the only thing that girl is concerned is to play right notes. There is no any counciousness about dynamics whatsoever (no piano whatsoever, no those surprising accents, most kids get so excited about, no sense of creschendo--that spreading, associated with winning new foreign lands, etc.etc.), the articulation is wrong (for some unexplainable reason all the slurs are omitted--kinda very funny limpings), there is no any conciousness about playing MUSIC, and no any conciousness that as a matter of fact, this piece is a some kind of very interesting "story", with different characters and moods--something what good teachers foster from the very first steps of taking lessons.

Whatever years old learning chords--that's the main objection of mine--any normal kid is capable of instant "grabbing" of those chords concepts, without computer aid.  For me the most essential in the music is sound image, which comes first. Listening for a minute or so of that ugly computer sound made me literally sick and trust me--this is not the kind of "sound image" I want my kids to have in their ears from the very beginning, which is the MOST important and crucial moment in starting learning such a beautiful thing as piano and music. And here is the main tendency I see in your system--most of the kids you posted sound like MIDI. Sorry, personally I am not interested in this kind of teaching, however "revolutionary" it is. This is not what I was taught about music, and this is not what I teach myself, value, or appreciate.
When there is interesting story and meaning behind music, when every note, every phrase is a BIG EVENT, there is no chance the kid is going to quit, so excuse me, but your stories about "naive parents" is a goofy BS.
 
I understand the reason for you being so unflexable in your discussion--apparently it is so obvious everything should be directed to serve one purpose--spread whatever you believe "works". For this sake, for every argument you whether:

1) answer with something completely unrelated
2) post some kind of goofy review or even worst--TV show, for which there is very little difference between talking about "revolutionary" Soft Mozart, or "revolutionary" Viagra.
3) prefer not to hear at all what's been said

I see very little point in continuation of such discussions. Until you won't change your attitude I highly doubt you will find ANY cooperation here.

All the best, M

[keypeg]

Musicrebel4U - You went through a lot of trouble to teach me basic music theory about the T S D.  In fact, I have just come from teaching that same lesson to my theory student.  a few minutes ago.

I thought I saw you introducing a concept to the boy that helped him picture things in his mind which you called "mother, child, father".  Then I saw the same musical patterns in what the girl was playing, but she was practising, and she was at ease with those notes and patterns.  I had the thought that you moved from one step to another step, so that this girl had been given what you gave to the boys, which allowed her to move with ease.  I thought I saw pedagogy and substance to it.  That's what I was asking about.  I'm a music student, but I am also a trained teacher so these things interest me.

KP

[lostinidlewonder]

It is nice that people are willing to share their lessons online for others to see. I don't like the idea that it has been treated as a "throwing down of the gauntlet" to other teachers or fears that people will tear down the method of teaching. Why do we have to be so competitive? Certainly there are many correct ways of teaching music, however one method cannot be applied to all students, it just doesn't work all the time.

Certainly videos and audio of lessons can be interesting to view but usually the lesson is for the student not for the general public. It is not a master class, it is a personal lesson which is constructed personally for the student who sits with you. How you describe things to this student might be different to another.

So to post a video and say, here this is how I teach all students, it is a little bit of a joke. Each student is treated differently like a doctor treats a patient.

Also some people have posted online here for over 5 years, if they are all fake teachers and just taking us for a ride, it certainly is a long time to put up an act. Seriously. We shouldn't be questioning the credentials of anyone online, you read what they say, that stands alone. I really don't care what certificates anyone has here, what they write is important. I would be a pompous stuck up snob if that is how I treated the worth of what people said online or off.

[musicrebel4u]

You don't give up, don't you, still posting some "reviews", which do yourself more harm than good and creating even more resistance...

Sorry, but one or the other (or both together)--whether you are not straight again, or you indeed don't understand something. I judged enough competitions for kids (for many years about 3 or 4 a year) and seen hundreds and hundreds to have enough experience to know how kids play piano and to see behind their playing pedagogical work and teacher's priorities.

Well, I judged many competitions myself and also have my ex-students teaching in different conservatories and winning different competitions. But I put on display my system and students and you didn't. So, whatever you say - it is fake 'till I will SEE your work and system.

When we talk about kids performances from the point of vew of pedagogical work, we do not evaluate interpretation as with Richter or Glenn Gould, but talk about what it is in a teacher's conciousness, what teacher's general priorities. What teacher pays attention working with kids. Unmistakenably you can see a good pedagogical work and if you are such a professional as you say, you would agree there is ALWAYS a tendency in every teacher's work, regardless if the kid is a good student or not. From this point of view your "before criticising show me your work" sounds somewhat childish and not as professional, as you might think. Besides, this is not WE who need to prove ourselves, but somehow it seems this is YOU who trys so hard to do it.

Of cause, I have to prove something, because I created something and share it with you and you didn't create anything and don't have to prove anything.

Now regarding the latest videos you have posted:
Khachaturian--there is something wrong with this video, it seems the young lady plays completely different piece. In any case, to me the "performance" sounds like a MIDI, so I won't even bother talking about it.

This is problem of youtube. If you would bother to go to my site, you would see better video:
 
Haily plays Khachaturian's "Masquerade Waltz"
-https://--https://-https://www.doremifasoft.com/events.html
It is very interesting how you suspect me being tricky and dishonest rather then trust... How sad. Hope, you would apologize.

Prokofiev March--it seems the only thing that girl is concerned is to play right notes. There is no any counciousness about dynamics whatsoever (no piano whatsoever, no those surprising accents, most kids get so excited about, no sense of creschendo--that spreading, associated with winning new foreign lands, etc.etc.), the articulation is wrong (for some unexplainable reason all the slurs are omitted--kinda very funny limpings), there is no any conciousness about playing MUSIC, and no any conciousness that as a matter of fact, this piece is a some kind of very interesting "story", with different characters and moods--something what good teachers foster from the very first steps of taking lessons.  

BS. Sorry! We are talking about a girl WHO PLAYS PIANO ONLY FOR 9 MONTH. If you remember, Artobolevskaya's philosophy: better play more pieces even though unperfect in order to build music mind. This is exactly what we are doing.

Whatever years old learning chords--that's the main objection of mine--any normal kid is capable of instant "grabbing" of those chords concepts, without computer aid.  For me the most essential in the music is sound image, which comes first. Listening for a minute or so of that ugly computer sound made me literally sick and trust me--this is not the kind of "sound image" I want my kids to have in their ears from the very beginning, which is the MOST important and crucial moment in starting learning such a beautiful thing as piano and music. And here is the main tendency I see in your system--most of the kids you posted sound like MIDI. Sorry, personally I am not interested in this kind of teaching, however "revolutionary" it is. This is not what I was taught about music, and this is not what I teach myself, value, or appreciate.

BS#2
I checked the same exercise in Kharkov conservatory with students from theory department. They fail and said that they need the program to improve their feeling of chords. The same result with piano teachers in Canev (Ukraine). At first they had attitude like yours, but when they set at the keyboard with computer they changed their mind pretty quickly.

When there is interesting story and meaning behind music, when every note, every phrase is a BIG EVENT, there is no chance the kid is going to quit, so excuse me, but your stories about "naive parents" is a goofy BS.

BS#3 for parents. Hours and hours spent to perfect one piece? Making money from naive people? This is why we have less and less students and you - consert pianist - poor enough to TEACH, because you can't make living performing.
 

I understand the reason for you being so unflexable in your discussion--apparently it is so obvious everything should be directed to serve one purpose--spread whatever you believe "works". For this sake, for every argument you whether:

You understand nothing. Yuri Rozum - he understand. Karaseva from Moscow conservatory - yes. All professors of Kiev and Kharkov conservatory - yes. Couple of PHD, who already wrote a dissertation about Soft Mozart - yes. I have enough credentials to bother about YOUR understanding, but I love to spend time here to sharpen my weapons against people likje you.

1) answer with something completely unrelated
2) post some kind of goofy review or even worst--TV show, for which there is very little difference between talking about "revolutionary" Soft Mozart, or "revolutionary" Viagra.
3) prefer not to hear at all what's been said

I see very little point in continuation of such discussions. Until you won't change your attitude I highly doubt you will find ANY cooperation here.

Don't say me what to do and you won't hear where you suppose to go.

Love and faith, musicrebel4u

[musicrebel4u]

It is nice that people are willing to share their lessons online for others to see. I don't like the idea that it has been treated as a "throwing down of the gauntlet" to other teachers or fears that people will tear down the method of teaching. Why do we have to be so competitive? Certainly there are many correct ways of teaching music, however one method cannot be applied to all students, it just doesn't work.

Certainly videos and audio of lessons can be interesting to view but usually the lesson is for the student not for the general public. It is not a master class, it is a personal lesson which is constructed personally for the student who sits with you. How you describe things to this student might be different to another.

So to post a video and say, here this is how I teach all students, it is a little bit of a joke. Each student is treated differently like a doctor treats a patient.

Also some people have posted online here for over 5 years, if they are all fake teachers and just taking us for a ride, it certainly is a long time to put up on act. Seriously.

Why then we teach ALL STUDENTS ABC in public schools and don't treat them differently (unless they are having some learning disability)?

[lostinidlewonder]

Why then we teach ALL STUDENTS ABC in public schools and don't treat them differently (unless they are having some learning disability)?

The way in which schools are teaching are archaic 100 year old methods. I teach a student of mine who is head professor of education at Murdoch University West Australia. She highlights the fact that schools usually highlight only one main way to learning something, this is not good enough but has been the way of teaching for hundreds of years. In fact students should learn not only from a book but more experience in the real world, finding them this experience is a personal journey for each person. When things are taught in a single method it restricts the method of learning. Certainly a greater % will understand a good single method almost immediately after it is taught, however a greater % of students will learn after the facts have been given to them. They test it out, work on it, fail and succeed themselves with it. The teacher should be interested in this process more than transferring knowledge.

Certainly the system of teaching will not change any time soon, but application of knowledge rather than reading it in a book and learning a single way, that is the way to go. I find I can do this very easily with one on one lessons with students, group lessons are a different deal, it is hard to divide yourself to everyone. But given most of my piano lessons are one on one I can throw out all the old methods of teaching the mass and be more interested in the process of the application of knowledge through the individual student.

[m]

Well, I judged many competitions myself and also have my ex-students teaching in different conservatories and winning different competitions. But I put on display my system and students and you didn't. So, whatever you say - it is fake 'till I will SEE your work and system.

Of cause, I have to prove something, because I created something and share it with you and you didn't create anything and don't have to prove anything.

This is problem of youtube. If you would bother to go to my site, you would see better video:
 
Haily plays Khachaturian's "Masquerade Waltz"
--https://--https://--https://-https://www.doremifasoft.com/events.html
It is very interesting how you suspect me being tricky and dishonest rather then trust... How sad. Hope, you would apologize.

BS. Sorry! We are talking about a girl WHO PLAYS PIANO ONLY FOR 9 MONTH. If you remember, Artobolevskaya's philosophy: better play more pieces even though unperfect in order to build music mind. This is exactly what we are doing.

BS#2
I checked the same exercise in Kharkov conservatory with students from theory department. They fail and said that they need the program to improve their feeling of chords. The same result with piano teachers in Canev (Ukraine). At first they had attitude like yours, but when they set at the keyboard with computer they changed their mind pretty quickly.

BS#3 for parents. Hours and hours spent to perfect one piece? Making money from naive people? This is why we have less and less students and you - consert pianist - poor enough to TEACH, because you can't make living performing...

...I love to spend time here to sharpen my weapons against people likje you.

Wow! 

I mean WOW!!!

All those lyes, assumptions, twisting facts and what I have said... just for the sole reason to "sharpen your weapons"!!! How professional, what a nice way to create a basis for your science!!!--indeed, you are quite good and sharp in that, indeed, you are quite something!

A few things to say:

This is problem of youtube. If you would bother to go to my site, you would see better video:
 
Haily plays Khachaturian's "Masquerade Waltz"
--https://--https://--https://-https://www.doremifasoft.com/events.html
It is very interesting how you suspect me being tricky and dishonest rather then trust... How sad. Hope, you would apologize.

The only thing I commented on that part was there is something wrong with this video, it seems the young lady plays completely different piece. I had no idea what is going on, whether it is youtube malfunction or problem, or anything else. I gladly apologize if my message came accross as such, but by no means I meant you were tricky and dishonest, and as a matter of fact, I did not suspect anything and did not have any thinking of accusing you in any of those things. 
All I meant was her playing (AS SEEN ON YOUTUBE IN THE LINK YOU PROVIDED) seemed terribly out of synchronization to the point it seemed like completely different piece.
Indeed, I said her playing sounded like a MIDI and as such, I refused to comment on her performance... just for sheer reason of not having enough words to express myself, but once again, it had nothing to do with the tricks or your honesty, it is just how that young lady was taught and think about music, regardless of how long she has been studying piano.
 

If you remember, Artobolevskaya's philosophy: better play more pieces even though unperfect in order to build music mind.

a) I already wrote about the part about "more pieces even imperfect", which of course (big surprise), you conviniently ommit here.

b) Please, don't tell me what Artobolevskaya said and stood for, and I won't tell you where you supposed to go. As I said earlier, I attended her lessons for years sometimes up to 3 times a week and modestly believe have little bit more knowledge about her philosophy than you ever dream to know.

You understand nothing. Yuri Rozum - he understand. Karaseva from Moscow conservatory - yes. All professors of Kiev and Kharkov conservatory - yes. Couple of PHD, who already wrote a dissertation about Soft Mozart - yes. I have enough credentials to bother about YOUR understanding

I cannot help, but notice, this is a direct path to:

Who is not with us is against us!

How beautiful!!!

From history lessons we know quite well what were the consequences of this kind of attitude.

Love and faith, musicrebel4u

After all the above, please don't preach about love and faith, unless you want me to tell you in quite an explicit and exquisite manner where and how you were supposed to go long ago, and what kind of embelishments to meet on the way.

Good day, M

P.S. And while we are on that, I have enough credentials not to bother about YOU bothering about MY understanding. For that matter, I have very little interest in knowing what they understand in Kiev, Kharkov, or even Moscow Conservatory. And for that matter (as I have already mentioned on numerous occasions) I don't give a rat tail for what teachers understand in Kanev, Zhmerinka, Kremenchuk, Belaya Tserkov', Zhitomir, or other городах и весях. All I know and understand is what my ears tell me and obviously, you are not the one to judge.

[musicrebel4u]

Wow! 

I mean WOW!!!

All those lyes, assumptions, twisting facts and what I have said... just for the sole reason to "sharpen your weapons"!!! How professional, what a nice way to create a basis for your science!!!--indeed, you are quite good and sharp in that, indeed, you are quite something!

A few things to say:

The only thing I commented on that part was there is something wrong with this video, it seems the young lady plays completely different piece. I had no idea what is going on, whether it is youtube malfunction or problem, or anything else. I gladly apologize if my message came accross as such, but by no means I meant you were tricky and dishonest, and as a matter of fact, I did not suspect anything and did not have any thinking of accusing you in any of those things. 
All I meant was her playing (AS SEEN ON YOUTUBE IN THE LINK YOU PROVIDED) seemed terribly out of synchronization to the point it seemed like completely different piece.
Indeed, I said her playing sounded like a MIDI and as such, I refused to comment on her performance... just for sheer reason of not having enough words to express myself, but once again, it had nothing to do with the tricks or your honesty, it is just how that young lady was taught and think about music, regardless of how long she has been studying piano.
 
a) I already wrote about the part about "more pieces even imperfect", which of course (big surprise), you conviniently ommit here.

b) Please, don't tell me what Artobolevskaya said and stood for, and I won't tell you where you supposed to go. As I said earlier, I attended her lessons for years sometimes up to 3 times a week and modestly believe have little bit more knowledge about her philosophy than you ever dream to know.


I cannot help, but notice, this is a direct path to:

Who is not with us is against us!

How beautiful!!!

From history lessons we know quite well what were the consequences of this kind of attitude.

After all the above, please don't preach about love and faith, unless you want me to tell you in quite an explicit and exquisite manner where and how you were supposed to go long ago, and what kind of embelishments to meet on the way.

Good day, M

P.S. And while we are on that, I have enough credentials not to bother about YOU bothering about MY understanding. For that matter, I have very little interest in knowing what they understand in Kiev, Kharkov, or even Moscow Conservatory. And for that matter (as I have already mentioned on numerous occasions) I don't give a rat tail for what teachers understand in Kanev, Zhmerinka, Kremenchuk, Belaya Tserkov', Zhitomir, or other городах и весях. All I know and understand is what my ears tell me and obviously, you are not the one to judge.

Marik, I am too busy to read all what you wrote.
Can you, please, write all that in two words?
Thank you!
And videos of your students would be gladly appriciated, since this topic is for videos...

[musicrebel4u]

The way in which schools are teaching are archaic 100 year old methods. I teach a student of mine who is head professor of education at Murdoch University West Australia. She highlights the fact that schools usually highlight only one main way to learning something, this is not good enough but has been the way of teaching for hundreds of years. In fact students should learn not only from a book but more experience in the real world, finding them this experience is a personal journey for each person. When things are taught in a single method it restricts the method of learning. Certainly a greater % will understand a good single method almost immediately after it is taught, however a greater % of students will learn after the facts have been given to them. They test it out, work on it, fail and succeed themselves with it. The teacher should be interested in this process more than transferring knowledge.

Certainly the system of teaching will not change any time soon, but application of knowledge rather than reading it in a book and learning a single way, that is the way to go. I find I can do this very easily with one on one lessons with students, group lessons are a different deal, it is hard to divide yourself to everyone. But given most of my piano lessons are one on one I can throw out all the old methods of teaching the mass and be more interested in the process of the application of knowledge through the individual student.

I think you would be interested to know how archaic our way of teaching how to read books here:

[keypeg]

I have been an innovator in education in the way I teach for the last few decades.  I also don't teach in the system.  Therefore these discusssions interest me.  In exploring the right educational choices for my own children when they were small, I saw many different approaches even within the public school system in Canada.  There is not one and only one way in which reading or anything else is taught.

Is it not possible to explain the merits of your system, without shown outdated ways of teaching reading that I think stopped around 1945?  The area of language learning, reading, is my field, and I have spent a lot of thought and studies here.  What you explain is not all that there is to it.  Having said that, I opted to homeschool my children for the first 8 years as an alternative to the existing system.

M4U, last night I was reading about the Greek Memory Theatre system and your graphic images of apples, colours, doors and mirrors immediately came to mind.

KP

[m]

Marik, I am too busy to read all what you wrote.
Can you, please, write all that in two words?
Thank you!

Sorry, it is impossible to answer all your lies in two words, but if I had to, then direction you suppose to go would be it--exactly two words... or three, depending what language you prefer.

Good day, M

[musicrebel4u]

I have been an innovator in education in the way I teach for the last few decades.  I also don't teach in the system.  Therefore these discusssions interest me.  In exploring the right educational choices for my own children when they were small, I saw many different approaches even within the public school system in Canada.  There is not one and only one way in which reading or anything else is taught.

Is it not possible to explain the merits of your system, without shown outdated ways of teaching reading that I think stopped around 1945?  The area of language learning, reading, is my field, and I have spent a lot of thought and studies here.  What you explain is not all that there is to it.  Having said that, I opted to homeschool my children for the first 8 years as an alternative to the existing system.

M4U, last night I was reading about the Greek Memory Theatre system and your graphic images of apples, colours, doors and mirrors immediately came to mind.

KP

Natural way of learning should be based on skills that learner already have. If, for example, child learned how to focus on relatively small object, we introduce one letter of Alphabet at a time. If child already developed speech of his/her mother tong, we teach child the same language using the words that he/she already knows. If the child capable of recognizing one picture from another, we add pictures to explain abstract symbols. If beginner has no skill to shift focus from one line of letters to another, we offer books with large letters and small amount of lines (3-4) on the page. If beginner just in a process of building reading skills and struggles with larynx coordination (learns how to pronounce what is written), we use pictures to support abstract text and he/she always knows if story understood right way. If child doing homework, we interact with the child and correct mistakes.

The same foundation we use in teaching music in Soft Mozart. I don't know another natural and healthy way to build skills from scratch. There is no other way, in fact, because beginners' ability to learn is limited psychologically and physiologically.

[musicrebel4u]

Sorry, it is impossible to answer all your lies in two words, but if I had to, then direction you suppose to go would be it--exactly two words... or three, depending what language you prefer.

Good day, M

Video of your students?

[keypeg]

In terms of teaching reading and language, my methodology are both natural and effective.  We agree on this.  I have taught reading from scratch, and certainly not in the "old methods" such as you describe them.  I have also worked one-on-one with students diagnosed as "learning disabled" (some apparently simply poorly taught) or poor learners, and by changing how they learn, and how they were taught, made a huge difference in a very short time.  A 12 year old girl came to me reading at a grade 2 level.  Within four months she was reading at a grade 8 level, and skipped in to tell me that she could not read any book in her classroom.  I am not a miracle worker - she already had the abilities but was taught in such an ineffective manner that it had set up obstacles.

My method for teaching language and reading comes from the sum of my specialized knowledge and what I have devised over the course of 25 years.  You are applying what you have learned about reading language, toward reading music, combined with your specialized knowledge of music.    So discussing the fine points of linguistic reading would be beside the point.   I am more interested in seeing what you are doing with it at your end.

I

[musicrebel4u]

   I am more interested in seeing what you are doing with it at your end.

I

  Didn't understand

[keypeg]

Didn't understand

Translation: What you are doing in music interests me more than theories on the linguistics side.  I will leave my expertise aside, and see what you are doing.

Ponemaesh?

KP

[musicrebel4u]

Yes it sounds quite a bit sectarian, doesn't it.

Sounds sectarian for you, because you don't know main rules of human perception perhaps?

Do you know, for instance, that our right part of brain (responsible for emotions, special orientation, perception of colors and sounds etc) develops first? From concrete to abstract sounds sectarian?

And now look at these pictures for young beginners and tell me honestly, how concrete this info? It is like to teach play tennis in rolling blades.

[musicrebel4u]

Translation: What you are doing in music interests me more than theories on the linguistics side.  I will leave my expertise aside, and see what you are doing.

Ponemaesh?

KP

Ponemaesh 
I am just turning music education from standing on head (for several centuties) on its feet.

[musicrebel4u]

And at last - picture of music notation with relation to piano keys:

[keypeg]

Ya tozhe ponemayu. 

Hm, my mind is even more on the Greek theatre memory system as I see your table.

I can only go by my own experience of music, which is unconventional, so I cannot judge.  I was untaught.  I knew music as movable do solfege.  I saw the patterns in my mind when I heard music.  Then there was this piano in front of me, and old music of my grandmother's: Clementi, Mozart etc.

The written notes for me came in groups - like neumes.  A line sounded like a scale, little stairs sounded like arpeggios, a shape of clusters were chords that sounded a certain way and shaped themselves in my hand.  When I look at music I hear an orchestra, and then I play the orchestra that I hear.

Hearing this orchestra is not enough - I could be playing in the wrong key or octave, "accidental transposing".  So I taught myself to be able to read from sheet to keys, the real notes, only recently.   Essentially I am pulling together two different aspects of reading and playing music. You are also teaching different aspects - your table.

However, I am not in the same place as these students, because I learned so differently.  Therefore I am content to observe.

[musicrebel4u]

Ya tozhe ponemayu. 

Hm, my mind is even more on the Greek theatre memory system as I see your table.

I can only go by my own experience of music, which is unconventional, so I cannot judge.  I was untaught.  I knew music as movable do solfege.  I saw the patterns in my mind when I heard music.  Then there was this piano in front of me, and old music of my grandmother's: Clementi, Mozart etc.

The written notes for me came in groups - like neumes.  A line sounded like a scale, little stairs sounded like arpeggios, a shape of clusters were chords that sounded a certain way and shaped themselves in my hand.  When I look at music I hear an orchestra, and then I play the orchestra that I hear.

Hearing this orchestra is not enough - I could be playing in the wrong key or octave, "accidental transposing".  So I taught myself to be able to read from sheet to keys, the real notes, only recently.   Essentially I am pulling together two different aspects of reading and playing music. You are also teaching different aspects - your table.

However, I am not in the same place as these students, because I learned so differently.  Therefore I am content to observe.

What you had described is indication that you have good inborn aptitude for music. You 'see' with your ears. This is exactly how kids learn with 'traditional' approach and this is why only selected few 'make it' to be literate musicians.

It is time for music education not to use inborn talent of students, but to build this talent from scratch.

[m]

Video of your students?

Wolfi has already posted one--you did not display any fair judgement or understanding, so what's the purpose?

In any case, as I said, I don't have video camera and not in rush of buying for the purpose of proving something to you, but as I said earlier, will be more than happy to audio record my tomorrow lesson (8 year old, 1 year 8 months of taking lessons). If you are a professional, as you say, you will be able to hear everything you need--zat's ze best I can do fo'h ya.

Best, M

[richard black]

music education HAS NO ALTERNATIVE, THE ONLY WAY IS - SOFT MOZART.

Don't be silly.

I knew I would find myself agreeing with thierry13 sooner or later about something....