The BNP ( British national party)

[thalbergmad]

I will be emigrating from it in due course

Bye Bye

[ahinton]

Bye Bye

I wrote "in due course", not "now"! In any case, I will, as you know, be relocating only a comparatively short distance, so there is no need for any au revoir in any case...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

(delete duplicate post)

[ahinton]

No doubt, but obviously seats and elections are won by people that DO vote, not by people that stay at home. If you feel strongly enough to support a party like the BNP, it is highly unlikely that you would to decline to vote.

The first part of this is, of course, true in principle, but the fewer members of the electorate that do vote, the weaker the resulting government (if any) will inevitably be. As to the second, by "you" you obviously mean "one" (since I'm sure you don't intend to suggest my own support of this party) but if has to be said that those who do wish to vote for it will have to be in a constituency where it is fielding a condidate, which is not likely to be anywhere near as many as the main parties will do, so there will be a greater proportion of BNP supporters accordiongly disenfranchised than will be the case with supporters of the main parties.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

If i have not yet made my stance clear, i will do so now. I have no problem with immigrants who want to come here legally, abide by our laws, work & pay taxes.

Are you entirely sure about that? When you complain about immigrants coming to UK to take the jobs of British citizens already living here or to deny those citizens jobs by accepting them in their stead, you are talking of people who, in the main, will be working and paying taxes and no doubt living in as law-abiding a fashion as those that are already here!

Illegals, criminals and those whose only desire is to live off the State should be deported.

But in many cases they can be; I do agree that certain recent legislation has on occasion made this more difficult than once it might have been, but it is usually possible as long as the culprits can be found, tried, convicted and made available for deportation in the first place. Furthermore, in order to deport immigrants whose "only desire is to live off the State" - even if British law permitted this, which it doesn't - would require a court to prove that each such immigrant came to britian with that intent and no other and it would make no due allowances for those who might end up "living off the State" not because they even intended to do so but merely because they get jobs here that they then lose through no fault of their own, just as often happens to British citizens that are already here. It would also be inconsistent (which is why the law does not permit deportation in such circumstances alone), in that would then be argued that British citizens should also be deported if they can be proved in a court of law to "desire to live off the State".

It is costing millions of pounds every year to keep foreign prisoners in our cushy jails whereas it would would cost much less if they were deported when convicted.

That is undoubtedly true, but it still costs quite abit just up to the point of conviction.

Similarly, deporting illegals immediately upon entry would save millions of pounds on hearings and appeals and trying to find them at a later date.

Indeed it would, but that would require every suspected illegal immigrant to be identified - or at least reasonably suspected - as being one, arrested and placed in custody subject to the laws applicable to UK citizens while on British soil and then tried and convicted - which itself doesn't come cheap.

In case it has escaped your notice, the rest of Europe seems to be out of recession whilst jolly old England is still in. Soon, immigrants will stop wanting to come here when this Country becomes worse than the craphole they came from.

It has come to my notice that certain pundits are trying to persuade us that this is so, but where the evidence is to support it I have no idea. Official unemployment figures for France, for example, have been between 7.5m and 10m for more than 30 years and, for a country with approximately the same population as UK, this contrasts strongly with the UK unemployment situation. Furthermore, "the rest of Europe" includes Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Portugal and a host of other countries outside EC such as Moldova, Iceland, Albania and Turkey - so don't try to persuade us that Britain is lagging behind every other European country!

There is some light on the horizon though as it appears that Libya are assisting in closing down one of the routes into Europe and the Italians are stiffening their resolve against a flood of unwanteds, so hopefully, the numbers that arrive at Calais awaiting to infest our shores will decrease.

Britain has plenty of other entry points besides Dover - far more ports than many other countries and a good deal more airports than some. What will you think when Libya eventually gets EU membership and Libyans themselves will be able to come here? That's a long way down the line, admittedly, but once Turkey and Morocco join, It'll only be a matter of time before the rest of north Africa does, followed by Middle Eastern nations from Yemen to Afghanistan - and even perhaps an independent Waziristan and, by that time, all the old Soviet satellites will doubtless be on the membership application trail as well. Once again, when presenting your arguments, please do not forget those British citizens and immigrants in UK who are leaving of their own accord.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

The first part of this is, of course, true in principle, but the fewer members of the electorate that do vote, the weaker the resulting government (if any) will inevitably be. As to the second, by "you" you obviously mean "one" (since I'm sure you don't intend to suggest my own support of this party) but if has to be said that those who do wish to vote for it will have to be in a constituency where it is fielding a condidate, which is not likely to be anywhere near as many as the main parties will do, so there will be a greater proportion of BNP supporters accordiongly disenfranchised than will be the case with supporters of the main parties.

I don't know why you posted this twice and i do not know of any party that is fielding a condidate.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Are you entirely sure about that? When you complain about immigrants coming to UK to take the jobs of British citizens already living here or to deny those citizens jobs by accepting them in their stead, you are talking of people who, in the main, will be working and paying taxes and no doubt living in as law-abiding a fashion as those that are already here!

It is illegal immigrants that are the main problem as they do not pay tax, as officially they should not be working. Hundreds of companies were fined last year for employing illegals and that is probably just the tip of the iceberg. These were jobs that could have been done by ohers, such as bone idle benefit loafers.

As a Country we have always had enough workforce to fill vacancies, but the Labour Party has failed to get a generation of benefit dependants into work. We never needed the amount of immigrants that came in, it was only the Labour Party that needed them.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

But in many cases they can be;

Yes, they can be but in many cases they are not. The government has a huge backlog of appeals that they will never clear and that can lead to a further armistice which is damaging to this Country.

We need to streamline the deportation process or even better, stop illegals getting in.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Once again, when presenting your arguments, please do not forget those British citizens and immigrants in UK who are leaving of their own accord.

I don't blame them as this Country is not as nice to live in as it used to be.

[thalbergmad]

Furthermore, "the rest of Europe" includes Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Portugal and a host of other countries outside EC such as Moldova, Iceland, Albania and Turkey - so don't try to persuade us that Britain is lagging behind every other European country!

Stupid nitpicking and you knew what i meant. I would be truly worried if we were lagging behind Romania in anything but gymnastics.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

What will you think when Libya eventually gets EU membership and Libyans themselves will be able to come here?

Hopefully i will be long dead before that happens, but i thank the Libyans for their excellent work in closing down some of the people trafficking routes and stemming the flow of Africans trying to get into Italy.

Of course, the conditions that some of the immigrants are held in are not good, but if the message gets back to others that "it is not worth trying", that can only be positive for Countries that don't want these people.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Indeed it would, but that would require every suspected illegal immigrant to be identified - or at least reasonably suspected - as being one, arrested and placed in custody subject to the laws applicable to UK citizens while on British soil and then tried and convicted - which itself doesn't come cheap.

It is well known that many immigrants simply destroy all their papers to avoid being identified. The Law should be simple, "no papers, no entry".

Thal

[ahinton]

I don't know why you posted this twice and i do not know of any party that is fielding a condidate.

I didn't post anythig twice and the duplicate appearance of one post of mine (which I've now deleted) occurred as a consequence of problems getting it to appear just once; that's however, for drawing this to my attention. I don;t know what you mean by the rest of this, since I merely pointed out that people who support BNP will be unable to vote for a BNP candidate unless the party fields one in the next General Election and I understand that Mr Nicholas Griffin, the leader of that party, has now announced that he will be standing in the Barking constituency, which seems to me to encapsulate a kind of poetic justice, really...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I don't blame them as this Country is not as nice to live in as it used to be.

OK - no doubt you do not (and I can accept that), but it remains important to include them in any arguments that you post about immigration into UK and its actual or potential consequences; the question of whether Britain is "as nice to live in as it used to be" depends on a raft of parameters including but by no menas limited to who it may be that holds (or purports to hold) such an opinion, how long they've lived in UK and what they believe might constitute a "nice" place in which to live in the first place...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

It will be poetic justice if he wins it, albeit if he does it will be thanks to anti Labour votes.

Thal

[ahinton]

Hopefully i will be long dead before that happens

I do not share that hope!

but i thank the Libyans for their excellent work in closing down some of the people trafficking routes and stemming the flow of Africans trying to get into Italy.

...despite the fact that, whatever the may seek to persuade people for appearances' sake, they've actually achieved no such thing in any case...

Of course, the conditions that some of the immigrants are held in are not good, but if the message gets back to others that "it is not worth trying", that can only be positive for Countries that don't want these people.

But which countries do not want who? - and how can any one country's views be polarised to such an extent that such a majority view in any one of them could acquire the remotest shread of credibility? This is not about countries so much as individuals from all countries and none who do, or try to do, just what they want and can get away with, for reasons that may be anything from utterly honourable to utterly despicable, although if and when any attempt may be made to challenge the movement of any individual from any one country to any other at any time by bringing any such country's legal sanctions to bear upon it, the taxpayers of that country will have to pay the costs and the outcome, however expensive, will almost certainly never satisfy anyone other than the lawyers who can hardly help but pick up fortunes from their representational involvement therein.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

OK - no doubt you do not (and I can accept that), but it remains important to include them in any arguments that you post about immigration into UK and its actual or potential consequences;

It is not always relevant, but i wonder how many are intending to destroy their papers and sneak as an illegal into Libya or Iran.

Thal

[ahinton]

It will be poetic justice if he wins it

Thaat's debatable and dependent on each individual's view of what constitutes poetry...

albeit if he does it will be thanks to anti Labour votes.

That will be impossible to prove beyond doubt; the phenomenon of tactical voting has held sway for some time now and that of double tactical voting is now establishing itself quite firmly in some places, especially in those marginal seats where a substantial number of candidates (inluding the usual suspect bunch of no-hopers) is fielded, so even if Griffin does happen to win that seat, it will be virtually impossible to tell from which party or parties he may have done so. The ultimate result will in any case be of little overall consequence unless such a win is replicated in many other constituencies.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

It is not always relevant, but i wonder how many are intending to destroy their papers and sneak as an illegal into Libya or Iran.

Probably not many - but then if, as you posit, UK is not as nice a place to come to as once it was, then it surely may not be long before you, and/or someone with similar views as you appear to hold, might pose the same question of people intending to do the same and sneak as an illegal into UK...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

...despite the fact that, whatever the may seek to persuade people for appearances' sake, they've actually achieved no such thing in any case...

Rubbish, much valuable work is being done by both the Libyans and Italians to stop illegal immigration. The two Countries are now cooperating.

The pact between them allows Italy's coastguard to swiftly deport boatloads of illegal immigrants back to Libyan shores, skipping procedures for filing potential asylum applications. If only we had a similar agreement with the French.

This is good news for Italy and good new for Europe. It is only bad news for the people traffickers and the illegals themselves.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

That will be impossible to prove beyond doubt;

And equally impossible to disprove, unless the Labour Party actually starts to talk to the people who live in this area and listen to their views.

I would have thought this unlikely as immigration is a taboo subject with Labour.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

But which countries do not want who?

Do you know any Countries that want boatloads of illegals??

[ahinton]

Rubbish, much valuable work is being done by both the Libyans and Italians to stop illegal immigration. The two Countries are now cooperating.

The pact between them allows Italy's coastguard to swiftly deport boatloads of illegal immigrants back to Libyan shores, skipping procedures for filing potential asylum applications. If only we had a similar agreement with the French.

This is good news for Italy and good new for Europe. It is only bad news for the people traffickers and the illegals themselves.

I am not for one moment seeking to suggest that no work of the kind that you describe is being done; all that I am saying is that any international people trafficking network worth its salt that notes what you do here about this particular co-operation (and they surely all must do, having ears to the ground at least as effective as yours) will simply use other routes to continue to develop its often highly profitable business; as I said earlier, there are so many routes into Britain. That said, the activities of such organisations are one thing and the handling of the cases of individuals who may at any time be apprehended on suspicion of entering any country illegally are quite another and have to follow quite different sets of expensive due legal process than would be the case in trying to prosecute slippery organisations who trade on the basis of being exempt from the laws of any particular country including those in and from which they may operate - an investigative process that is infinitely more expensive than dealing with all the individuals' cases put together and will only continue to be more so.

Agreements between any pairs or groups of countries in such matters are only as good as (a) the constantly changing governments of each that seek to implement them can make them and (b) their effectiveness in practice (if any) once "implemented" by means of entering them on countries' statute books.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Do you know any Countries that want boatloads of illegals??

I have not suggested that I do, but that is not my point; what I do suggest is that it is by no means a simple matter to determine beyond all doubt who wants who to be where at any given time, any more than it is so to police who IS where at any given time.

Best,

Alistair

[gyzzzmo]

Do you know any Countries that want boatloads of illegals??

Many western countries/economies do need more young workforce than theyre currently 'producing' themselves though. The problem is that most of these countries dont do enough to let these people adapt the the new culture/system easily.

Lots of illegals want to work like legals, their tag 'illegal' makes it very hard though, and risky.

[thalbergmad]

Lots of illegals want to work like legals, their tag 'illegal' makes it very hard though, and risky.

I expect they do, but if they went through the proper procedures they would have a much greater chance.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

I am not for one moment seeking to suggest that no work of the kind that you describe is being done; all that I am saying is that any international people trafficking network worth its salt that notes what you do here about this particular co-operation (and they surely all must do, having ears to the ground at least as effective as yours) will simply use other routes to continue to develop its often highly profitable business

Which is why the battle to close them down must continue. It is the message that is sent out that is even more important. "If you want to come here, do it through the proper procedures".

Once illegals are sent back home, they will tell others (hopefully) not to try, so the cooperation between the Italians and Libyans is vital.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

That said, the activities of such organisations are one thing and the handling of the cases of individuals who may at any time be apprehended on suspicion of entering any country illegally are quite another and have to follow quite different sets of expensive due legal process than would be the case in trying to prosecute slippery organisations who trade on the basis of being exempt from the laws of any particular country including those in and from which they may operate - an investigative process that is infinitely more expensive than dealing with all the individuals' cases put together and will only continue to be more so.

The Italians appear to have bypassed such expensive legal processes by shipping illegals straight back from whence they came and denying them the chance to claim asylum.

We have much to learn from this method as it not only reduces the number of illegals, but the bill for the taxpayer as well.

Thal

[ahinton]

Which is why the battle to close them down must continue. It is the message that is sent out that is even more important. "If you want to come here, do it through the proper procedures".

Many such people would not have any such "propoer procedures" made available to them by the countries that they are trying to leave, so even if Britain were to make such procedures available, the effect would be substantially compromised.

Once illegals are sent back home, they will tell others (hopefully) not to try, so the cooperation between the Italians and Libyans is vital.

The ones that are killed when they get back won't tell anyone anything but, as I said, the traffickers will just change routes to avoid the consequences of such measures as you write about here. If every country tried to set up and maintain such pacts, the cost would be so prohibitive as to make those of handling such issues as they're now being handled look very puny indeed; professional trafficking organisations are well aware of this fact, just as they are of the sheer unlikelihood of the establishment of sustainable global co-operation between every conceivable pair of countries that would be imperative for this to work other than as an easily avoidable exception.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

The ones that are killed when they get back won't tell anyone anything

Alistairtair

Dear Alistairair,

I am aware the dead cannot talk, but when unfortunate deaths are reported by the media, it is sending a very powerful message to those that wish to enter Europe illegally.

Of course the traffickers will look for other routes, but they will have no trade if the immigrants themselves stop wishing to come. This is why what the Italians are doing is so important.

Thal

[ahinton]

Dear Alistairair,

Just out of interest, is anyone else here encountering difficulties in sending posts here at present? I'm finding that the system jams up quite frequently and it is unclear for a time even whether a post has gone or not (I'm not finding any problems with other sites). Anyway, Thal, you omitted a "t" from your attempted repetition of the mistype here, just as you and others have  so often done when writing "Elliot Carter"...

I am aware the dead cannot talk, but when unfortunate deaths are reported by the media, it is sending a very powerful message to those that wish to enter Europe illegally.

I doubt that very much; there is not yet anything like as much evidence that people have actually been deported and subsequently met their deaths in the countries to which they have been forcibly repatriated than there is that such people have been threatened with such summary execution upon their return.

Of course the traffickers will look for other routes, but they will have no trade if the immigrants themselves stop wishing to come. This is why what the Italians are doing is so important.

But the immigrants won't for the most part want to stop coming - especially those whose circumstances in their own countries are particularly parlous compared to those in Britain.

However, what you still seem unwilling to address is the possible outcome of large numbers of people already entitled to live in UK coming to UK to do so, including British citizens living abroad. The very fact, for example, of the British pound's unfavourable situation via-à-vis the euro is forcing quite a few of those ex-pat Brits - especially those on fixed income payable in pounds sterling - to consider having to return to Britain purely for reasons of economic necessity; add those to the ever-increasing numbers of EU citizens entitled to live in UK and who choose to do so and you have then only to consider the balancing factor of existing immigrants and UK-based British citizens in order to try to arrive at sensible and sanguine conclusions about what level of population Britain might be capable of supporting at any given time, though it's far from a simple matter.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

But the immigrants won't for the most part want to stop coming - especially those whose circumstances in their own coutries are particularly parlous compared to those in Britain.

If i remember correctly, there has been a reduction on those attempting the "Italian" route. This shows us the way forward and what can be achieved with a bit of effort.

No doubt those that live in terrible conditions might still want to risk the journey, but when the word gets back of the terrible conditions in detention centres, people might think twice. The problem is that in England we are and are seen to be a soft touch. I am not without compassion for people that wish to come here illegally to improve their lives, but as a Country we have to have control over our borders.

I do not blame illegal immigrants for wishing to come here and they should not blame us for trying to keep them out.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

However, what you still seem unwilling to address is the possible outcome of large numbers of people already entitled to live in UK coming to UK to do so, including British citizens living abroad. The very fact, for example, of the British pound's unfavourable situation via-à-vis the euro is forcing quite a few of those ex-pat Brits - especially those on fixed income payable in pounds sterling - to consider having to return to Britain purely for reasons of economic necessity; add those to the ever-increasing numbers of EU citizens entitled to live in UK and who choose to do so and you have then only to consider the balancing factor of existing immigrants and UK-based British citizens in order to try to arrive at sensible and sanguine conclusions about what level of population Britain might be capable of supporting at any given time, though it's far from a simple matter.

You have explained very well why we need to keep out illegals.

Thanks

Thal

[ahinton]

If i remember correctly, there has been a reduction on those attempting the "Italian" route. This shows us the way forward and what can be achieved with a bit of effort.

That demonstrates to me (if indeed it is to be believed) that other routes are already gaining ground.

No doubt those that live in terrible conditions might still want to risk the journey, but when the word gets back of the terrible conditions in detention centres, people might think twice.

But that's just it; the word rarely if ever does get around. Communications are often very bad t the best of time for some of these people and they are in any case being conned with land-of-milk-and-honey (as mercifully distinct from land-of-hopelessness-and-vainglory) promises which the most vulnerable members of society have little choice but to hope to believe.

The problem is that in England we are and are seen to be a soft touch. I am not without compassion for people that wish to come here illegally to improve their lives, but as a Country we have to have control over our borders.

Yes, we do have to try to do that within reson beause we only have so much space.

I do not blame illegal immigrants for wishing to come here and they should not blame us for trying to keep them out.

I reckon that some of the illegal immigrants don't even possess the mental energy to blame us for anything, frankly...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

You have explained very well why we need to keep out illegals.

Thanks

That's OK; I never suggested that it was less than necessary to try to stem the flow of illegal immigrants but I'm just not convinced that you're satisfied with the situation about legal ones or about British nationals living abroad who decided that they'd like (or feel obliged or forced) to return, either and/or both of which could cause a massive increase in the UK population.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

That demonstrates to me (if indeed it is to be believed) that other routes are already gaining ground.

Which is why the struggle must continue and amicable arrangement made with other Countries for the immediate return of illegals.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

That's OK; I never suggested that it was less than necessary to try to stem the flow of illegal immigrants but I'm just not convinced that you're satisfied with the situation about legal ones or about British nationals living abroad who decided that they'd like (or feel obliged or forced) to return, either and/or both of which could cause a massive increase in the UK population.

If British nationals are living abroad legally, i can see no reason why they would feel obliged to return or be forced to. If any have managed to smuggle themselves into Iraq illegally, i assume they might wish to come back.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

But that's just it; the word rarely if ever does get around.

If nobody gets sent back, i would agree, but this is no longer the case.

In addition, the British Government has actually sponsored a soap opera broadcast on African radio and television stations to try to convince people not to try to come here illegally.

For once, the penny finally appears to have dropped.

Thal

[ahinton]

Which is why the struggle must continue and amicable arrangement made with other Countries for the immediate return of illegals.

But how shall that be achieved and under whose agreed direction and with whose agreement - and how should such agreement be established and maintained? Too many countries are involved or potentially involved to render any such universal agreement betwen all possible pairs of nations remotely likely.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

If British nationals are living abroad legally, i can see no reason why they would feel obliged to return or be forced to. If any have managed to smuggle themselves into Iraq illegally, i assume they might wish to come back.

You misunderstand my point. Such ex-pat Brits would not, of course, be "forced" (for example by the governments of the countries in which they have settled) to repatriate; what I'm talking about is the Brits who may feel that they are no longer left with any option other than to consider returning because of economic factors such as (but by no means necessarily limited to) the increasingly parlous relationship between the British pound and the euro that affects quite a few ex-pat Brits, especially those on (as I mentioend) fixed pound sterling incomes.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

If nobody gets sent back, i would agree, but this is no longer the case.

Hardly anyone gets sent back against their will and in situations that may be risk to them - and the few that are make very little difference to any arguments on this.

In addition, the British Government has actually sponsored a soap opera broadcast on African radio and television stations to try to convince people not to try to come here illegally.

For once, the penny finally appears to have dropped.

Fine - East Africa Enders, perhaps? What difference do you suppose that this might hope to make when a substantial majority of those who end up intending to enter UK illegally have no obvious option to try to enter that country other than illegally? The penny dropped? The pound has already dropped almost to invisibility, so I'd not worry overmuch about those pennies if I were you!

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

What I'm talking about is the Brits who may feel that they are no longer left with any option other than to consider returning because of economic factors such as (but by no means necessarily limited to) the increasingly parlous relationship between the British pound and the euro that affects quite a few ex-pat Brits, especially those on (as I mentioend) fixed pound sterling incomes.

If this is likely to happen, it is even more reason to stem the flow of illegals. We have a limited amount of space in England.

Apart from ex pats who are wanted by the British Police, i cannot see why there would be any problem with a majority of them returning. They would not need to smuggle themselves in on the back of a lorry.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

But how shall that be achieved and under whose agreed direction and with whose agreement

I am not a bloody politician. Ask the Italian government.

They seem to have a good system.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Fine - East Africa Enders, perhaps? What difference do you suppose that this might hope to make when a substantial majority of those who end up intending to enter UK illegally have no obvious option to try to enter that country other than illegally?

If it convinces just a few people not to try, it is worth it. If it convinces a hundred, the investment has been returned with interest.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Just out of interest, is anyone else here encountering difficulties in sending posts here at present?

Not me.

Perhaps you might want to considering popping the corks a little later in the day.

Thal

[ahinton]

If this is likely to happen, it is even more reason to stem the flow of illegals. We have a limited amount of space in England.

Correct.

Apart from ex pats who are wanted by the British Police, i cannot see why there would be any problem with a majority of them returning. They would not need to smuggle themselves in on the back of a lorry.

True - although you could have added any other police force, not only the British one; the only problem that you might find is that if most of these people did indeed return you might be minded to consider that all manner of immigrants already here would have to be deported to make room for them, as the UK population might otherwise risk being catapulted to hopelessly impractical levels...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I am not a bloody politician. Ask the Italian government.

I won't waste time consulting Signor Berlusconi, then; instead, I'll take the Italian gvovernment's word for it that you're "not a bloody politician"...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

If it convinces just a few people not to try, it is worth it. If it convinces a hundred, the investment has been returned with interest.

And it it doesn't do anything of the kind because resourceful international people trafficking organisations can (as indeed they are doing and will continue to do) always find another way around such efforts, then what?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Not me.

Perhaps you might want to considering popping the corks a little later in the day.

OK, fine - but I do not type using a cork...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

all manner of immigrants already here would have to be deported to make room for them, as the UK population might otherwise risk being catapulted to hopelessly impractical levels...

Sounds good to me if we would be deporting illegals.