The BNP ( British national party)

[zheer]

  For those who have not heard of the BNP, it is a political group that insight race hate in the UK, only recently the leader of this party was found not guilty, for calling the muslim faith as a wicked, evil vicious faith, a faith that permits muslim men to rape women and basically is a threat to white man. Now I'm sorry if this wanabe Hitler isn't racist then who is. Its like me saying all Christians are evil and so is its religion.
   I remember when I was young groups of white men would write NF on school walls and start fights with Asians black, these NF people are members of BNP. Now I'm sorry but recently a black man was stabed to death by a group of white men and this leader of BNP justified it by saying well this black man was a bad person, so no big deal.

[prometheus]

Christianity is also an evil wicked fate that permits men to rape woman.

The only question is if people are insane enough to believe all of it or if they are moral enough to cherry-pick things from their 'holy books'.

[zheer]

   Please read that.

[prometheus]

What should I say about that? What do you mean? Read the comments posted below or listen and read the video?

I have protested 'together' with angry muslim teenagers at anti-war protests.

[zheer]

I have protested 'together' with angry muslim teenagers at anti-war protests.

  Ok prometheus you talk sense 99% of the time, but you know i dont know what to think,
that was really shocking.

[prometheus]

Which part?

[zheer]

Which part?

  Well i was reading 5% of the comments, and that was basically kill all muslims they are all scum what are they doing in a white country ect ect, honestly.

[zheer]

  Total rispect for this guy. Just listen how he talks.

[thalbergmad]

As loathsome as the BNP is this was an important victory for free speach, since for years, hate filled Muslim preachers have been able to spew out poison with relative impunity.

The shoe being on the other foot for once has upset a lot of people, but everyones view deserves to be heard.

Thal

[zheer]

The shoe being on the other foot for once has upset a lot of people, but everyones view deserves to be heard.

Thal

  Agreed everyones view should be heard.

[musik_man]

It's a shame Britain doesn't have a First Amendment.

[prometheus]

The difference between inciting hate and freedom of speech can be a very small one. Even more so, maybe they overlap.

I can't really say if this is a victory for freedom of speech or a victory of ultra-right because I don't know the context of these statements and the character of this party well enough.

[musik_man]

The difference between inciting hate and freedom of speech can be a very small one. Even more so, maybe they overlap.

I can't really say if this is a victory for freedom of speech or a victory of ultra-right because I don't know the context of these statements and the character of this party well enough.

Any political speech that isn't made to immediately incite law-breaking should be legal.  I don't want politicians deciding what constitutes 'hate speech.' 

[prometheus]

Is there any place in the world where politicians decide what is 'hate speech' and what is not? Or did you mean court?

But you need to be careful. People can be politicians and say things that can cause violence against minorities. It is the duty of the state in a democracy to protect minorities.

So here both things do collide.

Politicians should show leadership in the sense of moral leadership. You can only lead by example. So politicians should be nuanced towards difficult issues, especially minorities and other weak members of society.

[musik_man]

I would assume that politicians passed the laws banning hate speech, which means they would get to decide.

It's already illegal to commit violent acts against minorities.  There's no reason to use that as a pretext for restricting speech.

[prometheus]

Yes, but if a person/leader incites hate she or he doesn't get punished if people commit violence inspired by that person/leader.

Politicians just pass laws saying that you can't incite hate. Then a judge makes a judgement if this happened or not. If you call on people to murder others and you have the authority to do so you have a big change to be found guilty.

Same goes for Islamic Imams.

In my country it is already illegal to say blasphemous things about god, though it is never applied anymore. It is also illegal to insult the head of state(king or queen). You can get up to 3 years of prison for this.
Politicians here are also looking to make it illegal to justify terrorist attacks. But this is even more problematic. I don't see why the same politicians that propose this shouldn't be found guilty themselves for justifying the war against Iraq.

Now I am against this. I am also against banning politicians with racist ideas. Something which is also often illegal. And against banning denying the holocaust and other genocides. But Europe has less freedom of speech than the US.

I remember that I pointed this out before and I got heat from it by someone. It seems this person did not understand this.

[pianowelsh]

Come on! who ever listens seriously to the views of the BNP they are UK comedy show! They delivberately go out of their way on every issue to be contreversial and radical. You cant seriously take the comments as being advocacy of the counrties stance on the Muslim population. Although Thalbergmad you are right it has caused the media and government and hopefully the public in general to see that the victims are not only muslims there are many voices in the UK which are oppressed and misrepresented and we are lucky to live in a country were we can make this known publically. We have to also remember that politicians are just people - not God. They have knee-jerk reactions too, were all fallible.  Religion is something everyone feels strongly about for whatever reason. When its stirred and challenged or peoples rights to hold beliefs are challenged they do react badly - it is destabilizing to have ones worldview changed hence people cannot avoid speaking passionately on such matters.

[zheer]

   Well it's nice to know that we can share our views in a  civilized way.It can be done.


         

[thalbergmad]

I don't think the BNP is as openly racist as it was, especially if you compare it to the old National Front.

President Bliar and his PC cronies have done a great job in recruiting members to the BNP, by being totally ineffective at halting illegal immigrantation, totally innefective at deporting the ones they catch and even more impotent at dealing with Islamic Fanatics.

If you have an effective an balanced government, you have no need for parties such as this. But in the present climate, they will grow and prosper as many disenchanted English people such as myself, feel they have no voice.

Thal

[zheer]

English people such as myself, feel they have no voice.

Thal

  Ok I see, I'm sorry about that.

[prometheus]

With the inequality of the world today one cannot stop illegal immigration. Illegal immigration was predicted years before it happened.

The only way is to reduce inequality.

So you think Blair is turning people into racists as long as he doesnt implode the Uk economy?

[thalbergmad]

In order to maintain the so far good natured progression of this thread, i would like to present a picture of my attempt to incite racial hatred in a cafe in Aberdeen.

[mephisto]

What is BNP?

[thalbergmad]

So you think Blair is turning people into racists as long as he doesnt implode the Uk economy?

Blair is recruiting for the BNP as long as he is seen to do nothing to halt illegal immigration. In January, the next invasion from Bulgaria and Romania will start. Has anyhting been done to limit this??

We do not need so many foreign workers. What the Labour Party needs to do is get a generation of workshy English back into employment instead of throwing benefits at them.

The prisons are full, the NHS and other public services are stretched at break point, the roads are full, there are no houses left. For pities sake, stop this nonesense.

[zheer]

The prisons are full, the NHS and other public services are stretched at break point, the roads are full, there are no houses left. For pities sake, stop this nonesense.

  Yes thats true Thalb, but you have to remember many have also moved abroad, or like me are looking to live abroad soon. Yes the NHS is going down, the roads are full and yes houses are like way too expensive. I can see your frustration fully i've heard it all.
   You know most people are likly to spend over 50 years paying a morgage on a house,same old story , rich get richer poor get poorer. 

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Blair is recruiting for the BNP as long as he is seen to do nothing to halt illegal immigration. In January, the next invasion from Bulgaria and Romania will start. Has anyhting been done to limit this??

We do not need so many foreign workers. What the Labour Party needs to do is get a generation of workshy English back into employment instead of throwing benefits at them.

The prisons are full, the NHS and other public services are stretched at break point, the roads are full, there are no houses left. For pities sake, stop this nonesense.

Blair welcomes migrant workers because he (and his friends in corporate business) know that they can be paid more cheaply than the native workforce. He's too short-sighted to notice, or care, about the sociological effects this will have ie the established tradesman being priced out of the market, leading to resentment of the immigrants, leading to racism, which, whilst wrong, is understandable given what provoked it.

[jakev2.0]

Exercise your right of free speech...by professing your hatred for it.

Usama is great! Jihad! Jihad! Allahu akhbar. Slay those who criticise Islam. Death to Denmark - we want Danish blood. JIHAAAAD!!!!! AAHHHH!!!

These people would be hilarious for their stupidity if they weren't so dangerous.

[jakev2.0]

In order to maintain the so far good natured progression of this thread, i would like to present a picture of my attempt to incite racial hatred in a cafe in Aberdeen.

DEATH BE UNTO THALBERGMAD. JIHAD. JIHAD!! ALLAHU AKHBAR!!!!!

[prometheus]

Exercise your right of free speech...by professing your hatred for it.

Usama is great! Jihad! Jihad! Allahu akhbar. Slay those who criticise Islam. Death to Denmark - we want Danish blood. JIHAAAAD!!!!! AAHHHH!!!

These people would be hilarious for their stupidity if they weren't so dangerous.

You mean: "Islam = Peace. Death to those who think Islam is a religion of violence!"

[jakev2.0]

Hahaha yeah man. That's another really funny one.

[thalbergmad]

DEATH BE UNTO THALBERGMAD. JIHAD. JIHAD!! ALLAHU AKHBAR!!!!!

A FATWAH has been issued against me by the Aberdeen Football Club Supporters Assoc.

Thal

[ronde_des_sylphes]

A FATWAH has been issued against me by the Aberdeen Football Club Supporters Assoc.

Thal

Rotfl. What did you do? Go to the Pittodrie Bar with an inflatable sheep?

[thalbergmad]

Rotfl. What did you do? Go to the Pittodrie Bar with an inflatable sheep?

Just the silly hat old chap, as in the photo above.

Thal

[mephisto]

Is Thal in reality a Taliban agent?

[pianowolfi]

Yes, his full name: Mohammed Al Queda Ali Aqbar Kazeem Shaq Al Fayed Alibahbah Thali.

[thalbergmad]

Yes, his full name: Mohammed Al Queda Ali Aqbar Kazeem Shaq Al Fayed Alibahbah Thali.

You will get me chucked out of the BNP for that

Thal

[dave santino]

As important a victory for free speech as this was, it has been soured somewhat by Blair and his cronies deciding to change the law now that it has been proved to them that people are willing to stand up for themselves again in cases of this type. It's a sad state of affairs when one's own government starts changing laws simply because the don't fit in with their idea of justice. Despite the increased threat from terrorists and extremists that we are living with, it seems as though nothing is being done to protect us from these people, so naturally popular support will shift to a party that promises to do just that.

[thalbergmad]

As important a victory for free speech as this was, it has been soures somewhat by Blair and his cronies deciding to change the law now that it has been proved to them that people are willing to stand up for themselves again in cases of this type. It's a sad state of affairs when one's own government starts changing laws simply because the don't fit in with their idea of justice. Despite the increased threat from terrorists and extremists that we are living with, it seems as though nothing is being done to protect us from these people, so naturally popular support will shift to a party that promises to do just that.

Extremely well said. Blair did not like the result, so he simply tries to change the Law so it does not happen again.

A lot of people probably joined the BNP this week.

Thal

[ahinton]

In order to maintain the so far good natured progression of this thread, i would like to present a picture of my attempt to incite racial hatred in a cafe in Aberdeen.

Well (if you'll pardon the fact of what I'm about to write being largely off-topic), this person was definitely not seen in the vicinity of London's The Warehouse yesterday evening - but that was presumably because he was busy at home sending this picture and other messages. Shame not to have seen you there.

Best,

Alistair

[zheer]

They are back.,

[thalbergmad]

Under this Labour Government, it is now almost illegal to be White, English, Christian and proud of it.

The Labour Party have increased the membership of the BNP, more than they could have ever done themselves by sucking up to minorities and ignoring the majority.

Almost a million people voted BNP at the European elections. At next years General Election, it would not surprise me if it was considerably more.

Thal

[ahinton]

Under this Labour Government, it is now almost illegal to be White, English, Christian and proud of it.

Let's take this one apart, for all that I can bring myself to understand and sympathise with the kind of feelings that have prompted it. Something is either "illegal" or it isn't - it cannot really be "almost illegal" in purely legislative terms - it either transgress the current statutes or it doesn't. But then what about these four paraments that you cite - are you talking about a combintion of all four or any one or more thereof? If you're "proud of it" but don't espouse all three of the other parameters that you cite firts, then the argument is immediately weakened (for example, I'm white, Scottis and non-Christian [though most certainly not anti-Christian], so to what extent can whatever I may be pround of make any kind of overall sense here?).

The Labour Party have increased the membership of the BNP, more than they could have ever done themselves by sucking up to minorities and ignoring the majority.

No. Certain activities and lack of same from the party currently in what might otherwise pass for governmental power in UK may well have disappointed some of their traditional supporters, but I don't see how that could have forced them into the hands of the BNP as such - there are other places for disaffected Labour supporters to go, after all. What's perhaps even more important is your reference to a "majority"; what "majority" might that be? - in other words, is there - and indeed can there even be - any such thing any more?

Almost a million people voted BNP at the European elections. At next years General Election, it would not surprise me if it was considerably more.

Given the turnout at yesterday's by-election in Glasgow, it wouldn't surprise me if support for BNP is less at next year's General Election in UK - by which I mean to point out the sheer paucity of turnout at that by-election which could well reporduce itself next year at the bigger electoral event.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

No. Certain activities and lack of same from the party currently in what might otherwise pass for governmental power in UK may well have disappointed some of their traditional supporters, but I don't see how that could have forced them into the hands of the BNP as such - there are other places for disaffected Labour supporters to go, after all.

No, they will go to a party where they feel they have a voice and that is obviously BNP.

It is Labour voters who have been mostly affected by the negative side of an open immigration policy. There is only one place for them to go.

Thal

[ahinton]

No, they will go to a party where they feel they have a voice and that is obviously BNP.

It is Labour voters who have been mostly affected by the negative side of an open immigration policy. There is only one place for them to go.

I'm sorry, but I simply do not agree with you. BNP have had such a poor showing of late and their credibility as a party that could even begin to govern UK and manage all matters of concern to the electorate rather than just immigration remains substantially less even than that of the outfit that is currently in so-called "power" - and that says quite a lot, I think. BNP did poorly in last night's by-election, for example. It's not only certain Labour voters that feel disaffected by those aspects of immigration policy - some voters for other parties do so too. Perhaps last night's by-election resuilt is a different kind of pointer to what may happen in the General election, in the sense of a record low percentage turnout leading to even greater weakness thereafter in that not only does no single party have any kind of workable majority but also that only a small percentage of those entitled to vote will actually have exercised that right in favour of any party...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I think. BNP did poorly in last night's by-election, for example.

Of course they did it was in Scotland. who take in a small portion of immigrants when compared to parts of England.

The Labour Party are supposed to be the party for the average working class Brit, but they are the people who have suffered most from 12 years of a Labour Government as they have been fined at every possible opportunity and taxed to buggery. They suffer most from the negative effects of an open immigration policy. They are concerned about their jobs, access to public services, crime and how their kids can be educated in a school where 40 other languages are spoken.

Not only have the Labour party failed to stem immigration, they actually seem to not even want to enter into a debate about the negative effects it can have on this Country and its population, and it is this that  plays directly into the hands of the far right. The BNP have a good chance to gain a seat in Parliament at the next Election as they will be contesting the Grays in Essex seat and thanks to the Labour Party, they stand a good chance.

Of course the BNP have very little credibility and no chance to govern, but to deny they have no valid points that appeal to certain parts of the electorate is stupidity, as it would be to deny that the Labour Party have done more to increase their voteshare than they could ever have managed themselves.

Extremist parties can develop best when a Country is in chaos and there is large scale concerns about an existing government. The Labour Party's motto was "education, education, education". The motto should be "deportation, deportation, deportation".

Thal

[zheer]

Of course they did it was in Scotland. who take in a small portion of immigrants when compared to parts of England.

The Labour Party are supposed to be the party for the average working class Brit, but they are the people who have suffered most from 12 years of a Labour Government as they have been fined at every possible opportunity and taxed to buggery. They suffer most from the negative effects of an open immigration policy. They are concerned about their jobs, access to public services, crime and how their kids can be educated in a school where 40 other languages are spoken.

Not only have the Labour party failed to stem immigration, they actually seem to not even want to enter into a debate about the negative effects it can have on this Country and its population, and it is this that  plays directly into the hands of the far right. The BNP have a good chance to gain a seat in Parliament at the next Election as they will be contesting the Grays in Essex seat and thanks to the Labour Party, they stand a good chance.

Of course the BNP have very little credibility and no chance to govern, but to deny they have no valid points that appeal to certain parts of the electorate is stupidity, as it would be to deny that the Labour Party have done more to increase their voteshare than they could ever have managed themselves.

Extremist parties can develop best when a Country is in chaos and there is large scale concerns about an existing government. The Labour Party's motto was "education, education, education". The motto should be "deportation, deportation, deportation".

Thal

As a British citizen living in London, and a as a person that has traveld to different parts of the world, i've noticed that people have immigrated to all corners of the globe, it just so happens that London has far more immigrants than the neghbouring EU nations.

[thalbergmad]

it just so happens that London has far more immigrants than the neghbouring EU nations.

Indeed it does, us British are known for our tolerance and London would be a natural magnet for immigrants.

The problem with an open door policy is that you don't always get the kind of people you want. Last year, there was a 300% increase in arrests of Romanian pickpockets in London. Due to the freedom of movement in the EU, we are not able to eject this unwanted scum from our Country, or even better dump them somewhere in the North Sea. They will either be let off, or locked up for a short period of time in conditions that are superior from the latrine from whence they originally came.

1 in 7 of our prisoners are foreigners, but not 1 in 7 of our population. The far right can use this as fodder to claim that a high percentage of foreigners and immigrants are criminals, where to me it demonstrates that an open door policy lets in the sh*t.

As a Country, we have enough pond life of our own, so we definately don't want any imports.

Thal

[ahinton]

Of course they did it was in Scotland. who take in a small portion of immigrants when compared to parts of England.

The Labour Party are supposed to be the party for the average working class Brit, but they are the people who have suffered most from 12 years of a Labour Government as they have been fined at every possible opportunity and taxed to buggery. They suffer most from the negative effects of an open immigration policy. They are concerned about their jobs, access to public services, crime and how their kids can be educated in a school where 40 other languages are spoken.

I'm not about to defend the present UK government - far from it - but immigration policy is not decided only by the UK government, whichever government it may be. It is vital to consider the subject by distinguishing between those who might apply (or have applied) for permission to live in UK and those who are already entitled to do so; the latter group includes all British citizens and most British subjects currently living outside UK and all citizens from the other 26 EU countries. It is also necessary to consider emigration which whilst not governed by "policies" in the same way, nevertheless does happen and on a not particularly small scale. Of course it is true that UK cannot support as many people as can France because its land mass is so much smaller, but I'm not quite sure what can be done about it. We cannot simply pull up the drawbridge to those already entitled to be here and, if we did, those people would come here anyway and be able to do so without breaking the law; indeed UK would be breaking its own as well as EU law if it tried to do so.

Of course the BNP have very little credibility and no chance to govern, but to deny they have no valid points that appeal to certain parts of the electorate is stupidity, as it would be to deny that the Labour Party have done more to increase their voteshare than they could ever have managed themselves.

That may not be entirely untrue, but I strongly suspect that the number of votes BNP gets at the next General Election will be very small compared even to the numbers of voters who decline to vote at all.

Extremist parties can develop best when a Country is in chaos and there is large scale concerns about an existing government. The Labour Party's motto was "education, education, education". The motto should be "deportation, deportation, deportation".

The first part of this is true and can be demonstrated by precedent, not least that of Germany during the 1930s. The latter part is nonsense; we have no statutes to permit deportation other than of certain proven criminals or illegal immigrants - nor should we.

Lastly, just because I happen to hold British citizenship and an EU passport, I do not feel possessive over Britain; I may be entitled to live here, but the extent to which I feel it is "my" country (especially as I will be emigrating from it in due course) is a good deal more limited than some people's - especially yours, I imagine!

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

The latter part is nonsense; we have no statutes to permit deportation other than of certain proven criminals or illegal immigrants - nor should we.

Rubbish, If i have not yet made my stance clear, i will do so now. I have no problem with immigrants who want to come here legally, abide by our laws, work & pay taxes. Illegals, criminals and those whose only desire is to live off the State should be deported. Regretfully, the Human Rights Act brought in by Blair so his wife and cronies could make millions, makes things harder than they should be.

It is costing millions of pounds every year to keep foreign prisoners in our cushy jails whereas it would would cost much less if they were deported when convicted. Similarly, deporting illegals immediately upon entry would save millions of pounds on hearings and appeals and trying to find them at a later date.

In case it has escaped your notice, the rest of Europe seems to be out of recession whilst jolly old England is still in. Soon, immigrants will stop wanting to come here when this Country becomes worse than the craphole they came from.

There is some light on the horizon though as it appears that Libya are assisting in closing down one of the routes into Europe and the Italians are stiffening their resolve against a flood of unwanteds, so hopefully, the numbers that arrive at Calais awaiting to infest our shores will decrease.

We have enough crap of our own. We do not need any more.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

That may not be entirely untrue, but I strongly suspect that the number of votes BNP gets at the next General Election will be very small compared even to the numbers of voters who decline to vote at all.

No doubt, but obviously seats and elections are won by people that DO vote, not by people that stay at home. If you feel strongly enough to support a party like the BNP, it is highly unlikely that you would to decline to vote.

Thal