Words of Wisdom for an Eighteen year old?

[tadhg]

Well, are there any things that you wish you had been told when you were young at the piano? I keep pushing myself to try and pay more and more difficult pieces, but than  thinking, i have all my life to play , why rush now.? Im sure that's universal advice, so are there any other wise words of wisdom for young pianists?!

[Jacey1973]

I read somewhere (think it was in "Notes from the pianist's bench" by Boris Berman) that concert pianists who practised very intensely when they were younger do less when they're older, and vise versa...

[bernhard]

I wish I had been told the following:

1.   Consistency is the key: you will get far more results from doing ten minutes daily never missing a day, than by doing 5 hours a day irregularly.

2.   Mindless practice is useless, no matter how much effort you put into it. I truly wish I had access to Bernhard’s posts on practising technology when I was a teenager.

3.   Only play what you love, pieces that you would like to have in your repertory. These pieces will open all doors, if you don’t look at them as some key pressing activity, but regard them in their totality (movements, theory, musical history etc.). Never waste time on stuff you have no interest in, but which you think may have some benefit. Whatever is of benefit to you will naturally grow from the things you like.

4.   Don’t follow blindly what a teacher says. Rather take it as a starting point to your own investigations. Then come back to the teacher and question him/her (in the spirit of discussion rather than argument, searching for light rather than for heat).

5.   Pay no attention to your emotional reactions – some days you will feel elated from your playing, some days you will feel depressed – Just keep practising/working. Learn to completely disregard such shallow feelings, they always come from a part of you that is utterly false.

6.   Always have initiative. It is your job to decide the pieces you want to play. It is not your teacher’s job to do so. His/her job is to give you the resources to get where you want to go. If you have no initiative, you will end up following other people’s initiatives.

7.   Pay the utmost attention to that inner part of you that tells you what is right or wrong, and always take a firm stand on what is right. Don’t sell yourself to anyone or to any system of thoughts/beliefs. If you feel uneasy about any of your actions (e.g most Bush voters) don’t do it. This feeling of uneasiness is all you need to know that you should not do it.

8.   Decide on your priorities and then be ruthless in your social life: get rid of anyone who does not further your priorities, surround yourself with people that do.

9.   Use fear as an advisor, not as a block. Listen to what your fear has to tell you, and then do it. And remember that a much better (in fact, the best) adviser is death. Always ask the three questions:

a.   What would I do if I knew I was going to die tomorrow?
b.   What would I do if I knew I was going to die in six months?
c.   What would I do if I knew I was going to die in five years time?

This will clarify your short term plans, your middle term plans and your long term plans.

10.   Tell him/her you like him/her. Usually people fear rejection, but the truth is, even if someone is not interested in you, the simple fact that you are interested in them is a powerful aphrodisiac.

Finally: Time is your most valuable asset. (Also understand that the advice above is what I would have told myself. For other people other advice may have been more appropriate).

Tip of the iceberg.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[thalbergmad]

I wish i had been told numbers 1 & 4 from your list.

[bernhard]

I wish i had been told numbers 1 & 4 from your list.

Now you have!

[ted]

 I think number 7 is clearly the most important, in art as well as life. You must be yourself in your music. It took me far too long to realise that my musical personality and ideas were valid after all and one or two were probably quite good. I wasted years trying to play and write like other people for all the wrong reasons. The more naturally different you are, the more acute this particular difficulty will be.  Don't waste your energy on  somebody else's dream.

I refrain from commenting on number 10. Following that landed me in heaps of trouble with women when I was younger. Nonetheless, most people are too reticent, and for them the advice is good.

Nowadays there is a prevailing philosophy of push and shove, striving and struggling, all over the place. Neurotic, mindless activity is presented as right and good when, in fact, it is the very opposite. People confuse this with healthy discipline and give themselves physical and mental problems in consequence. Learn to heed your brain and body. Rest is not laziness, but an important part of health and happiness. If you gain benefit from spending two hours on a certain task it does NOT follow that spending four hours on it will be twice as good. Yet this is the utterly stupid philosophy promulgated by everyone from governments downward. Human beings are much more complicated creatures and defy linear models in anything. 

[m1469]

I wasted years trying to play and write like other people for all the wrong reasons.

(well, I just have to ask and perhaps it is still pertinent to this topic, but, Ted do you really think these years were truly a waste ?  It does not seem so from my perspective, for several reasons.   m1469)

[ted]

m1469:

As usual in these discussions, English is the problem. "Wasted years" isn't quite appropriate and there is a consequent exaggeration. A large percentage of my musical activity in those days was very constructive, as you suggest. I should have phrased it in a positive way:

In earlier years I paid far too little heed to worthwhile ideas which were peculiarly mine, and spent far too much time attempting to force my musical impulse into the keyboard language of others.

That might be a better way of saying it.

[m1469]

Yes, okay.  Beyond the words, I suppose I just wanted to get at the state of mind behind them, I understand now.  I do personally  prefer your second choice of wording.

m1469

[possom46]

I wish I had been told the following:

If you feel uneasy about any of your actions (e.g most Bush voters) don’t do it.

Excellent 



On a serious note, a lot of good advice there for a pianist/musician of any age, thanks Bernhard.

[AvoidedCadence]

Is Bernhard's list a moral philosophy?  A veritable Ten Commandments of music?

That said, I'm not sure I agree with number five. I don't really understand it - should we take this to mean that we should practice even when we don't want to?

Number 10 also looks funny on the list.  Er...  I guess this pre-supposes that one has a social life. 

I would add (to the original poster): someone will always have a better technique and a better memory than you, wherever you are.  Hold your head high, carry on, and make music, for this is your sacred task.

(I know that because I'm 18 too)

Also learn everything you can about playing the piano.  Remember:

"... we are all Philosophers, we Hyperboreans!"

and we musicians too.  Good luck!

[m1469]

I wish I had been told the following:

1.   Consistency is the key: you will get far more results from doing ten minutes daily never missing a day, than by doing 5 hours a day irregularly.

2.   Mindless practice is useless, no matter how much effort you put into it. I truly wish I had access to Bernhard’s posts on practising technology when I was a teenager.

3.   Only play what you love, pieces that you would like to have in your repertory. These pieces will open all doors, if you don’t look at them as some key pressing activity, but regard them in their totality (movements, theory, musical history etc.). Never waste time on stuff you have no interest in, but which you think may have some benefit. Whatever is of benefit to you will naturally grow from the things you like.

4.   Don’t follow blindly what a teacher says. Rather take it as a starting point to your own investigations. Then come back to the teacher and question him/her (in the spirit of discussion rather than argument, searching for light rather than for heat).

5.   Pay no attention to your emotional reactions – some days you will feel elated from your playing, some days you will feel depressed – Just keep practising/working. Learn to completely disregard such shallow feelings, they always come from a part of you that is utterly false.

6.   Always have initiative. It is your job to decide the pieces you want to play. It is not your teacher’s job to do so. His/her job is to give you the resources to get where you want to go. If you have no initiative, you will end up following other people’s initiatives.

7.   Pay the utmost attention to that inner part of you that tells you what is right or wrong, and always take a firm stand on what is right. Don’t sell yourself to anyone or to any system of thoughts/beliefs. If you feel uneasy about any of your actions (e.g most Bush voters) don’t do it. This feeling of uneasiness is all you need to know that you should not do it.

8.   Decide on your priorities and then be ruthless in your social life: get rid of anyone who does not further your priorities, surround yourself with people that do.

9.   Use fear as an advisor, not as a block. Listen to what your fear has to tell you, and then do it. And remember that a much better (in fact, the best) adviser is death. Always ask the three questions:

a.   What would I do if I knew I was going to die tomorrow?
b.   What would I do if I knew I was going to die in six months?
c.   What would I do if I knew I was going to die in five years time?

This will clarify your short term plans, your middle term plans and your long term plans.

10.   Tell him/her you like him/her. Usually people fear rejection, but the truth is, even if someone is not interested in you, the simple fact that you are interested in them is a powerful aphrodisiac.

Finally: Time is your most valuable asset. (Also understand that the advice above is what I would have told myself. For other people other advice may have been more appropriate).

Tip of the iceberg.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Yeah, these are wonderful, they have hit me deep.  I feel like #5 is one of the most important things for me to consider and put into practice right now... and # 9... and #1... he he... and # ....

with ice axe in hand and with crampon-shod feets *wonders what is beyond the tip of the iceberg*... he he, where does patience fall into this mix ?  Are we there yet  ? yet ?

My little snippet of "wisdom".. learn from everyone and everything.


m1469

[Floristan]

Brilliant as ever, Bernhard.

I've always been good at #7, thank god,  but not so good at #8 when younger (better at it now).  #8 is definitely one I wish I had learned sooner.

#1-#6 -- all important to me, all good to hear again.

[Bob]

Don't be afraid to try things that you may not think you're ready for -- like a challenging piece or starting to teach. 

It's not so much that you have success or fail, it's that you add more experience and knowledge to what you have.  You have to start somewhere and will not be finished ever really.  So just dive in and start learning and don't be so concerned with whether you're doing well or not.  Of course, if it's presenting something to someone, like in teaching or a performance, you can clean up the edges on things to make a nice presentation.

Work your rear end off, and always keep working on something -- Don't put all your eggs into one basket for a performance.

Get to know successful people.  Some of their success can rub off on you without too much effort on your part.

Don't be afraid to do things just for the sake of doing them.  If you have little experience, you can do thing (teaching, performances) for free or very little money.  People like free things and won't be overly critical since they don't pay much for it.  "How nice that you donate your performance."  "How nice that you charge a little less than all the other local music teachers."  They cut you more slack.  You get the experience and can do better later on after muddling through these initial experiences.   Don't be afraid to give time and money.  If you're doing things you love, the money and time you put in can come back.  "Do what you love and the money will follow,"  that idea.  Temper that with being realistic and not giving too much or being too nice -- try to make sure you benefit from the thing you do for free.

Study lots of areas of music and try performing many styles.  You never know what's in the future and a quick introduction to something now many be a lifesaver some time in the future.  Or at least you would be aware of another area of music and may use that as a starting point for developing in the future.

Don't "threaten" your teachers when you confront them about why they do things the way they do. 

Try to keep in contact with the important people in your schooling.

[Torp]

1. Reasons are stronger than goals.  Goals are the 'what;' reasons are the 'why'.  Define your reasons before you seek your goals.

2. We can never be better than our internal belief system believes we can be.  If you're not achieving all you think you could, look inside; the answers and solutions are there.

3. The destination makes up a miniscule part of a journey.  Learn to find pleasure in the ride, even when the ride takes you through the middle of a torrential storm.

4. Your integrity has no price, until you sell out.  Then, no amount of money will ever buy it back.

5. Listen more than you speak.  Don't just hear, listen!

Jef

[m1469]

5. .... Don't just hear, listen!

Jef

Yes, okay.


m1469 

[bernhard]

Is Bernhard's list a moral philosophy? 

I hope not. Immorality is far more fun

That said, I'm not sure I agree with number five. I don't really understand it - should we take this to mean that we should practice even when we don't want to?

Number 10 also looks funny on the list.  Er...  I guess this pre-supposes that one has a social life. 

Er... As I said, these are advices I would give myself if I had a time machine and could go back and meet my younger self (I'm starting to sound like Irobot now... )

As such they tell more about what I was like as a teenager than about how good the advices are to the general public. A lot of advice I would give to other people I would not need to give to my younger self and vice-versa.

But yes, if you are to have any consistency in your practice you must practise even if you don't want to (in the immortal words of Christopher Lambert in "Highlander": - You want? You want? Is that all you can think about? what you want? - said to a lady who wanted to see his sword. Although in a metaphorical sense later on in the movie she did. But I digress). I may even say that it is when you don't want to practise that is the most important that you do it.

In regards to the second point, one can easily have a social life and have no sexual life. As I said elsewhere, for a period of 15 years I was completley celibate. Then it was my 16th year birthday

And by the way, If my older self came from the future to advise me, most likely I would not listen to him.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Daevren]

I think no.3 is the most important.

I am also celibate by choice. I wouldn't go as far as to reccomend it.

[Vanillawafer]

I think no.3 is the most important.

I am also celibate by choice. I wouldn't go as far as to reccomend it.

I mean I kind of understand #3 as being valuable for someone who might "quit if they don't like it" but is there not some value that comes from forcing yourself to learn various pieces for the experience aspect of it?  I'm asking because I realy don't know... I find that I force my-self to play a lot of music that I wouldn't just sit down and pick out to learn, for the purpose of learning.  I guess some of this has to do with the fact that the music I really love to play... (Elton John, Ben Folds... ) can be above my level, so I resort back to easier books of music to learn from.  I can always learn any Elton John, and Ben Folds stuff, but I often times feel like I don't quite get everything out of it because I knew the rhythms and how it should sound before I started learning it...  Humm, always confused about what I should be working on in terms of music to improve my skills 

[Daevren]

How can you force music you don't like? How can you play the music vs playing the notes?

There is tons of nice music out there. If you can't find pieces to learn then start listening or find another artform/hobby/spare time.

For me, if I don't like the music it has no value, no meaning. In some sense it is not even music.

I really get the feeling only about 20% of the people here actually love music. There are tons of topics with people asking people to force them to learn pieces.

[Vanillawafer]

There is tons of nice music out there. If you can't find pieces to learn then start listening or find another artform/hobby/spare time.

Uh, yeah, give up, that's the answer    Just throw away your artform/hobby because you're having trouble finding what music you should play to better yourself 

For me, if I don't like the music it has no value, no meaning. In some sense it is not even music.

Do you like doing scales, arpeggios, theory?  My guess is no, it's not what you would prefer to do, but you do them why?  Because it might make you that much better at making the music you love, and because in the end it will help you to play the pieces you love.  That's the point to my question, are there not some musical pieces that we wouldn't necessarily choose to play, but are good to play because they might help us to improve?  That's all I'm getting at...

[Daevren]

I already did years of arps and scales on other instruments. I don't want to do that all over again.

I don't understand why one would want to play piano if they don't even know what to play. I am not saying people should give up.

[TheHammer]

Do you like doing scales, arpeggios, theory?  My guess is no, it's not what you would prefer to do, but you do them why?  Because it might make you that much better at making the music you love, and because in the end it will help you to play the pieces you love.  That's the point to my question, are there not some musical pieces that we wouldn't necessarily choose to play, but are good to play because they might help us to improve?  That's all I'm getting at...

Speaking for myself, I never liked such technical exercises, and nowadays refrain from doing so, even if I would think they could help me with my technique (but then again, I am (hopefully) no beginner anymore, nor do I want to become a performer...it is just that I want to play piano music).
If I have struggle with a arpeggio passage in a piece, I devise a exercise to master it. After mastering it, I will never do this exercise again, and I always hope that the process of mastering is over as soon as possible.
If you degrade your current pieces to technical exercises just in preparation for the "real" pieces you might play some day, you are missing the point. There are pieces which are beautiful, which you probably will love, and which will lead to technical development and progress as well. Search for them (PF, eh no, PS-Forum) and have fun NOW. It will not damage your playing, quite the contrary. If you bore yourself now, you will probably abandon piano soon enough (ah, the memories...I once felt exactly this way, did not like my pieces, wanted to quit. Then I discovered Beethoven ).

[c18cont]

Does anyone ever wonder,

Maybe this whole forum is improperly named...

John Cont

[i_m_robot]

Wise man say:

Berhard's posts are like the wind, bringing only truth whether you are expecting it or not.

self tried

[Mozartian]

Something I'm learning..
Never miss a chance to shut your mouth. 
It's a good idea, trust me.

[i_m_robot]

ah

better keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool

that to open it and remove all doubt

[Torp]

Something I'm learning..
Never miss a chance to shut your mouth. 
It's a good idea, trust me.

Especially on a motorcycle...blech...

[c18cont]

Mozartian and, i-m-robot, and torp as well,

Yes  "keep mouth shut....'...Indeed, I am learning that principle again on this forum....

Best,  John

[Torp]

Mozartian and, i-m-robot, and torp as well,

Yes  "keep mouth shut....'...Indeed, I am learning that principle again on this forum....

Best,  John

Yes, I have to watch that too.  If my mouth is open while I'm typing I have a tendency to drool on my keyboard...not a pretty sight.

[Mozartian]

ah

better keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool

that to open it and remove all doubt

Very sound philosophy.. a pity you don't follow it..

oh wait wait this is one of the times I should shut up. 

 

[whynot]

Referring to earlier in the thread, I liked Bernhard's list, especially #5.  I have to be very honest with myself when things aren't going well:  HOW aren't they going well.  If I'm really tired or feel sick and I'm not getting anything done, I quit practicing.  But when "not going well" just means that I don't like how I sound that day, or I'm not having fun, then I stay on the bench and get something done.  I'm pretty lazy; if I let myself off the hook too easily, I'll just go play with the cat and not learn anything.   

My own bit of advice from a friend:  "There is not a finite amount of beauty in the world." 
Someone else making beautiful music doesn't take anything away from you or what you have to give.  With competitions, comparisons, critiques, we  forget this.  Listen to other people's music with a big heart, and play with a big heart.

And something I learned long ago from m1469:  beautiful music belongs to everyone.
     

[thalberg]

Advice for an 18-year old: 

There's a ton of great books on piano technique and overall piano playing out there.  READ THEM. 

[AvoidedCadence]

Immorality is far more fun

Bernhard is revealed as an immoralist!  I had suspected as much from his previous posts on authority, but now he admits it himself.  (In my reference to the Commandments of piano playing I was being somewhat ... er ... not entirely serious...)

A related piece of wisdom:  Don't be a moralist, in your life or in your piano playing.  What I mean by that is: Ignore commandments! "X is a moral command, therefore obey X because X is a moral command."  (Circular logic/tautology - why should we obey moral commands?)  This sort of reasoning will get you nowhere.
The analogy in piano:  Ignore it when people tell you about a law of piano playing, without giving a reason.  (I'm sure this one has come up 10^10^10 times on this forum already)  THIS sort of reason may cause you to, like a crab, ... go backwards.  And:  don't learn a piece you don't like, even if everyone else loves it.  And:  don't NOT learn a piece you enjoy, just because everyone else hates it.  And:  don't NOT learn a piece you enjoy, just because everyone else is playing it.

Therefore:  question everything.
Remember:  every action not directed at a goal (conscious or unconscious) is wasted.  (What does this tell you about how most preachers of morality and lofty self-sacrifice live their lives?)

On an unrelated topic -

Speaking for myself, I never liked such technical exercises, and nowadays refrain from doing so, even if I would think they could help me with my technique (but then again, I am (hopefully) no beginner anymore, nor do I want to become a performer...it is just that I want to play piano music).
If I have struggle with a arpeggio passage in a piece, I devise a exercise to master it. After mastering it, I will never do this exercise again, and I always hope that the process of mastering is over as soon as possible.
If you degrade your current pieces to technical exercises just in preparation for the "real" pieces you might play some day, you are missing the point. There are pieces which are beautiful, which you probably will love, and which will lead to technical development and progress as well. Search for them (PF, eh no, PS-Forum) and have fun NOW. It will not damage your playing, quite the contrary. If you bore yourself now, you will probably abandon piano soon enough (ah, the memories...I once felt exactly this way, did not like my pieces, wanted to quit. Then I discovered Beethoven ).

I agree - there is a big difference between studying theory (and other aspects of music) from practicing technical studies UNCONNECTED to what you are working on.  If you don't work on technical problems in the pieces you like and are learning, that's just laziness.  (I'm sure that sentence was a paraphrase of Bernhard)  On the other hand, it's ridiculous to go out and play every etude you can, by every obscure mediocrity, just because it's a technical exercise.

Similarly, theory can (and should) be applied to every piece of music you study.

Now, if only I were smart enough to follow my own advice...

[happyface94]

I always question my teacher's motive when it is something that I wouldn't have done. (Like a tempo question or dynamic question), but in the end I'm kind of forced to play it like she wants me to play it. I do have a certain will in my interpretation, but then again it isnt really like that. Just this year I've been able to actually choose the pieces I wanted to play, before they were all chosen by my teacher, and only 1 year I liked my pieces my performance was much better. Now I guess I'll have a much greater year (except for that Rach 1 where i have no chance of performing well)

[Daevren]

What about #10?