wHaT sHoUlD I lEaRn?

[Franz_Liszt]

Here is my current repertoire
        6 Bach inventions - perfect
         Jesu Meine Freude- perfect
         Rondo Alla Turca- perfect
          Mozart Sonata 11- Learning it
         
What should I add to it?
A. 1 more Bach Invention
B. A Bach Prelude and Fugue
C. Chopin Etude No. 10 Op. 3
D. Bach's Italian Concerto
H. A mozart Concerto
Z. Beethoven Sonata No. 30
M. Islamey
R. Beethoven Sonata No. 29
G. Liszt's Liebestraum No. 1,2 or 3

[ThEmUsIcMaNBJ]

Yeah Islamey would be good then why don't you go and learn Rachs Piano concerto no. 2 and 3?  Yeah those would be good additions, maybe Hammerklavier...  Not just one etude though!  Go learn them all op 10 and op 25!  You can do it!  Few more weeks no problem right?
(If you're that lame, this is sarcasm)

You've been playing for a few months and you're 12!  You can't attempt things like Islamey!  Thats ridiculous~!

[dreamaurora]

Hmm, i seriously question your teacher's integrity. No sane teachers would allow their students to learn pieces beyond their levels. And I am surprised you learn Op 110 Beethoven Sonata, did your teacher allow this ? Frankly speaking, I don't believe what you are saying. The recent topics you have created border on the line of incredulous, the board members here are actual serious pianists ( including me ) , and we know what we are talking about.

[Rach3]

The serious pianists on the forum may not have noticed that many members are actually serious piano students, including me.

Liszt why restrict yourself to Bach inventions and WTC? How about his B flat partita?

[Rach3]

BTW what exactly do you mean by "perfect"?

[ThEmUsIcMaNBJ]

You know Franz I was just thinking of you...  I have a 12 year old sister and I would be amazed if she could write like you.  Are you a genius or very smart?  Especially since it seems to me that you know quite a lot of at least names and op. #'s of classical pieces.  At 12 most kids wouldn't even know the name of the piece they're playing.  Just wondering!

[Davek]

i would recomend liszt liebestraum number 3, maybe rach's prelude in c# minor.
yes and some more bach you can never get enough of him :

Dave King

[rachfan]

You've had a pretty good dose of Bach's Two-Part Inventions, although it wouldn't hurt to learn more of them still.  Speak to your teacher about trying one or two of the Sinfonias (Three-part Inventions) as the next logical step there.

Obviously you like Liszt (how would I have guessed?).  At your present level, take a look at the Consolations first, again under your teacher's guidance.

[Colette]

here's what i would add, from my own 12 yr. old learning experiences/repertoire.
1. chopin waltzes, preludes and nocturnes. starting on these early, nurtures musicality and maturity. and when you pick them up at a later date, you'll be fondly familiar with the notes and interpretation and will bring so much more to these compositions.
2. debussy's arabesque and ballade, and more of his smaller pieces, like jimbo's lullaby, (not a child's piece) the snow is dancing, and berceuse.
3. ah, you can never have too much bach. i'd try a prelude and fugue balanced with more iventions.
i'd stay away from any chopin etude, islamey (what is your teacher thinking?) and beethoven sonatas (again, what is your teacher thinking?) or any larger bach works.

[Hmoll]

I'm with dreamaurora. The repertoire you listed as played is too advanced for someone who has been studying piano for only 8 mnths cold.  By the way, what do you mean by "perfect?" I'm sure if you played any of these pieces for a jury of piano teachers, they would be able to find some actionable feedback on your performance.

You might want to think about Clementi sonatinas, 3 part inventions, Chopin mazurkas or prelude #4.

(Chopin etudes, Islamey, Beethoven op109 or 110? Don't make me laugh.)

[Diabolos]

I agree with h-moll (you're German, aren't you?) and Colette; some of the pieces you listed are, although I'm not in the position to judge on you playing since I never heard it, far beyond a level that can be reached by playing Mozart's alla turca or Bach inventios.

The next logical step would be completing the Mozart sonata, looking at some other ones; then it'd be time to check on Haydn. Some Scarlatti and Clementi would be good, too. But stay away from Beethoven - I'm not sure you're up to that yet. I you badly want to play some of his works, don't go for the late sonatas; start with the sonatinas, play them at sonata level, then learn the two small sonatars, and afteron start with the Kürfürsten-sonatas.

As for romantic music, why does it always have to be Chopin? His music's similar to beethoven - tough stuff, to speak frankly. You could check on some mazurkas and the Waltz in a-minor KV ?? (sorry, can't recall the number); don't try the preludes yet - these pieces are 10 % technique and accuracy and 90% interpreting.

Debussy Arabesques would also be a good start; and I'd wait for that list after really succesfully playing the Chopin etudes; Liszt's music isn't about technique, it's all about what lies in it - accuracy and virtuosity are full requirements, not something to learn while working on them.

Good luck!

Regards,

[88keys]

Franz_Liszt, I've noticed that your original list is numbered in a strange way:

A, B, C, D, then it jumps to H, then to Z, then back to M...

Is this part of a larger list? Perhaps a list of (at least) 26 pieces you would like to learn?

If so, you might want to give the complete list here. And we could help you order them into a study-plan which makes chronological sense.

[88keys]

By the way,

For all those who don't see how Franz_Liszt's teacher approved of him learning Beethoven's Op. 109, the answer is simple:

Franz_Liszt didn't ask his teacher! He just wanted to play the piece, and went right down to it. Perhaps he did ask his teacher to learn in, and the teacher said no (for obvious reasons)... But that didn't stop him from trying it anyway.

Now, fellas. Instead of accusing Franz_Liszt of being a liar (or even hinting at something of the sort), you should commend him for wanting to play pieces without his teacher's guidance.

Of-course, his choice of Beethoven's Op. 109 and Op. 110 is not a good one (to say the least), but that's no reason to loose paitence and doubting his integrity.

Why am I so eager to defend Franz_Liszt? Because I too was a beginner once. And just like him, I also liked "playing around" with the Beethoven Late Sonatas, so apperantly it isn't so 'unrealistic' as some of the members here think.

[dreamaurora]

Well, speaking from my own experience, I was guilty with the same mistake that the thread starter was in now too. However, I came to realise that practicing pieces that are way above my skill level would result in following things:

- "Unfinished piece" syndome, this is very common syndrome among many aspiring pianists, try a very difficult piece, learn it halfway, then stop, in the end never complete a single piece, I know many people that try to learn a Beethoven sonata , but then they could not persevere even to the end of first movement, because they complained it was too long and difficult for them.

- Waste of time, the time spent learning a piece outside realistic skill and musical limit is better spent acquiring real repertoire that i can perform comfortably. Not to mention the stress that arise from encountering enormous technical and musical difficulties. Doing this is the quickest road to nervous breakdown.

These are two most obvious disadvantages of learnin pieces above realistic limit. So to those aspiring pianists out there, you may be hardworkin and progress faster, but do not skip the musical progression that every good pianist go through.

In the end, compete with yourself about making better music, theres no point boasting about how difficult a piece you can play, but if you don't make music, theres no point at all.

[Hmoll]

88keys,

You are right in a sense, that Franz_Liszt should be commended for his enthusiasm.  My post could have been perhaps more constructive and less abrupt, but I wanted to emphatically suggest that what he listed is too hard for him (or her).
Also, I don't think he is being dishonest, he just wants to know what he should play - although I still don't know what he means when he says he plays something "perfectly."

[88keys]

Oh, Hmoll, I was not referring to you. The guys I'm talking about know who they are...

Anyway, it is kind of a moot point right now, given that Franz_Liszt seemed to have left the forum due to the insulting remarks.

[Franz_Liszt_X]

Actually I left because of issues with my computer.

     Anyway, I didn't mean to actually learn those difficult pieces, I just wanted to have a detailed list of reasons why I shouldn't. You seemed to have fulfilled my purpose. Thank you for accomplishing your mission.
The pieces I would wish to learn are:
A. Another Bach Invention
B. A Fugue and Prelude
C. Liebestraum
D. Reverie (Debussy)
E. One of my own pieces.

[88keys]

What about the random letters on your first post? It would be nice to see the entire list of the pieces you wish to (eventually) learn.

By the way,

Next time you want to ask a question, it would be nice if you actually ask it directly.

You'll get an answer quicker this way, too.

[88keys]

By the way, why are you now "Franz_Liszt_X"?

[Franz_Liszt_X]

  88keys, an excellent job in raising my spirits. I had no clue that I would not be able to play this piece up to tempo. But really, I had no clue that when I started the playing that Polyphony was so difficult. It took 3 times longer for me to learn a Bach Invention than an equally long segment of a homophonic piece.

[88keys]

Yeah, I know... Beethoven's Op. 110 can be a viscious trap for beginners.

Not only it starts easy, but the first few bars have the quality... the innocence of a children's piece. And this innocence lasts just long enough to convince you that the entire piece is like that. Of-course it isn't... but once you're convinced, it becomes very hard to change your mind even when various difficulties pop right in your face.

The truth about Op. 110 is, of-course, anything but innocent:

It is a fiendishly difficult piece to perform.

Forget the fugue, because you won't even get there. Your troubles will begin about 30 seconds into the 1st movement:

Look at the 1/32nd notes starting on measure 12. Can you play them at tempo?

Perhaps you can. But can you play them evenly and softly, as written?

[Franz_Liszt_X]

    The edition I have has the tempo of the first movement as Quarter Note = 65, making the 32nd notes similar to 16th notes, I must have forgot the fact that they were pianissimo because I find playing pp difficult at any thing faster than M.M. = 120 for 16th notes, and since my edition makes it 32nd = 65, which is 16th = 130, it will be difficult even with the ridiculously slow tempo. It is a nice piece though. I guess I have to wait 3 - 10 years.  

[88keys]

Well it says piano, not pianissimo. But still, very hard to control at tempo.

My guess is, you will be TECHNICALLY ready for playing this section (and the entire first movement) in a year or two. But if you want to do Beethoven justice, don't rush into his late sonatas until you are MUSICALLY ready - it took Beethoven himself around 30 years to reach this level of depth in his composition, so take your time.