How do I explain the price of a piano to my family members?

[thalberg]

I have an older brother who works in banking.

We were talking tonight about what we're up to--and I just finished school, so I have a new job, a new house, and now I'm piano shopping.  I happened to remark that I was very stressed about where I was going to come up with the money for a piano since I had no piano.  I should have known better!  I told him the kind of piano I'd ideally like to have--eventually.

He said to me, "Philip, do NOT spend fifty f***ing grand on a piano!  It's a waste of money! Can't you just play the pianos at school?"

I just finished ten years of school for piano, and it's my profession--I've been hired full time as a professor (hence the "pianos at school" comment).  I am just in shock that he would say something like that.  I could think of absolutely no comeback for  that.  He not only placed extremely harsh judgment on me, but showed no respect or understanding for what I do--how could I NOT have a piano in my house?  Has anyone else had an experience like this?  What on earth do I say?  I'd like some advice or insight.

[gfiore]

 It's quite simple.  First off, it's really none of his business. Second, if you feel you need to explain, just state that you are investing in your future,  happiness, and your profession. It is what you enjoy, and it will keep rewarding you with the joy of music for the rest of your life.
 You can also make them aware that some people gamble, snort, shoot and drink this same amount of money during their lifetime, with no return or other artistic rewards. You though, will be a better person in the end. 
 

[thalberg]

Well, that's a good point.  If I really want to win the argument, I could bring up the fact that HE has definitely spent that amount on entertainment in the seven years since he finished college.  Plus, he probably has spent enough money on Armani suits to pay for a piano.  If he doesn't buy cheap suits, why should I buy a cheap piano?

[gkatele]

If he doesn't buy cheap suits, why should I buy a cheap piano?

Perfect. I am a bit different. I'm at the end of my career, and have made a good living. However, I've NEVER gone and bought "toys." Yeah, I have a nice computer, we bought a retirement house back in '96, and all that. However, I've never bought a fancy car - I drive a 5 year old Jeep (my partners buy BMW's and one has a Cayenne). I buy my clothes at Kohls (my partners go to Mark Shale).

But I also have 3 kids in college - as I like to say - a Bosendorfer a year!

So when I mentioned to my wife that my 30 year old Baldwin Hamilton is seeing the end of its useful life, she was apalled when I said what price range of piano I'm looking at (a Mason A).

But it's the only thing I'll ever buy for myself that will be "just for ME."


George

[thalberg]

Well, you obviously play well enough to appreciate a fine piano.  After all those years of living beneath your means and providing excellently for her and for your children beyond what other parents do (many kids pay for their own college) I would think she would refrain from denying you the one thing you want.  Plus, a piano is hardly a frivolous expenditure--it doesn't depreciate like a car, it lasts at LEAST 50 years, and the more expensive pianos are WORTH the money, unlike more expensive cars, which don't do a better job of driving 55mph than a regular car.  Plus, piano playing is a really noble endeavor, unlike what most folks spend their money on.  My opinion: pretend your kids all went to college one more year and get a BB.  Seriously, I just finished school, and as a professor I'll never end up making enough to pay anyone's college tuition, and I'm buying a 7-foot right away anyhow.  It's going to stress me out financially a lot.  (But it's also an insurance policy to get one now, before I meet someone and get married.)

[jeremyjchilds]

I was on the other end of the financial spectrum. When i first started teaching, We had no money because I had just graduated. Well, we had about 5000 saved up for a piano (CDN) which put me in the price range of the chinese-Korean pianos. Not that they were terrible pianos, but I really wanted something more, Of course My wife (who doesent play) thought the young Chang woulg be fine

To make a long story short, I fell in love with the tone of the Seiler (Even though I wasnt so big on the touch) and it cost substantially more...well close to 3x

Now to the realavant aspect of this post.
As soon as I bought the piano, my Student enrollment went from 10-25, and a year later, I am at 50 students and have a waiting list. Now of course, It's not like people walked past my place and sensed a piano they wanted to play, But I think that the change happened to me. I had a more serious piano, and also a more serious work ethic. Having an exciting piano has caused me to be a dilligent practicer, and my playing has shot up recently. If you think about it, We are "performance" pianists. If I was a "performance" drag racer. then I would probably spend 400K on my car...

Anyways, I'm done

[keith d kerman]

I don't even know where to begin.  My initial reaction is pretty much the same as Curry's.  None of your business.  But in the interest of family harmony, you might suggest that he should try and research a bit about what it takes to be a classical pianist at a professional
level.  And what it takes to build an appropriate tool for a professional pianist.
On the banking side, a new piano is an asset that a pro can depreciate over, I think 7 years ( check with your CPA) and is deductable. 
The real difficulty is your brother's total lack of understanding of what you do and need, combined with this not stopping him from advising you.
Why should your family be any different from anyone elses?

[gkatele]

a pro can depreciate over, I think 7 years ( check with your CPA) and is deductable. 

So, anyone wanna call me a "pro" so I can depreciate my purchase over the next few years?

 


George

[jr11]

Explaining this to him is quite simple. You are a professor... that is a professional. A piano is a tool of your trade, and thus a business asset. A professional cannot be expected to use tools geared towards amateurs, in any occupation.

Perhaps what he was implying was if there were more cost effective solutions? If so, he is likely correct. You can probably find a suitable instrument in the $30-35k range as a lease return, used, or rebuilt.

[Bob]

It's really your decision.

50 k is a lot of money, but it is your job and your life.

And really, it's just money.  You've invested a lot of time and energy (your life)into music.  A 100K piano isn't out of the question, is it?  If you buy it now, you have the rest of your life to use it.  And you obviously will be using it.  And you won't be stuck at school.  I know a few professors who have to practice at school.  I can't imagine it would be the same as being able to practice at home.

Since it holds it value, you could sell it later on if you had to.  Then the depreciated money you lost would be more like you were renting it.

Buy it while you can.  Up your lesson rates, take on a few more private students, and have your students help you pay it off over the long term.  1K in lesson fees over 25 years pays for half of it right?

[iumonito]

Ask your brother how much was spent in golf last year and how much are the lease payment on his car.  You can kill by asking how much did his watch cost.  Ever been to Hawaii?

A grand piano is an expensive thing (and you can get a spectacular piano for 3/5 of 50k), but is not the most extravagant thing in the world.  I think any bottle of wine over $25 is. 

[dinosaurtales]

This is soooooo common! The folks I know who are appalled and have no problem saying how RIDICULOUS it is to spend 50k+ on a piano have no problem blowing that much and more on a Lexus sport ut!  They'll even blow an extra 10 k to get the leather covered dashboard and vent slats!  no joke!  They'll also freak out if a sofa costs more than 1500, too, which really cracks me up, since the leather seats in their car cost more!

People are funny sometimes.  I say ignore him and do what you want.

Also, I have a problem with feeling like you have to "play well enough" for a good piano.  To hell with that!

[yoda_moppet]

First NYB...None of you buisness!

Second, the piano is an enriching object. 

Take a "normal" american.  Nice house, nice car, nice clothes, whatever.  Take that away.  What do you have?  Absolutely nothing.

Musician.  Same, add their ability to play their instrument.  You have changed.  This can never be taken away.

The fact that your brother said "f!#!@#" puts him in his own class.  lol.

enjoy your new instrument.

[thalberg]

Thanks, everyone.  Your support has made me feel much better.  And you're right, his language does put him in his own class, unfortunately. 

And you're right about the Lexus and the traveling and the ridiculous status and entertainment expenditures.  My brother spends enormous amounts on luxury and status items that depreciate quickly and must be replaced.  Yet he sees a piano for a professor as a waste of money.  Where's the sense?  He just doesn't value what I value, and can't step out of his own frame of reference.  He thinks everyone should live like he does--earn as much as you can and have as much fun as you can.  (If you enjoy his types of activities.)

As a piano teacher, I see this kind of senselessness often.  One woman had her daughter take lessons with me, but they didn't have a piano--the girl would need to be driven to grandma's house to practice. .  (At the time, I had to take every student I could.)  I told them they could get a nice used upright for 500-2000 dollars, and it was like I was asking them to gouge their eyes out--where would they get that kind of money?  A few months later, this same mother pulled up in a new $45,000 SUV.  It's all about priorities and values.

How are we supposed to understand this culture around us?  Oh, well, at least my parents are supportive, and their opinion affects me a whole lot more than my brother's.

[catherinel]

You were correct when you said: "It's all about priorities and values." I have a brother like that - the cars, yacht, summer home - but his kids are screwed-up! I do not share with him those things that he cannot comprehend! Saves me grief! Enjoy your piano!

[thalberg]

Catherine, I need to do what you do--not share with people things they cannot comprehend.  I will do that from now on, and you're right, it will save grief.  And I will enjoy my piano!

[eins]

I'd tell this brother two things:

a) why does he have a computer at home if he can use the one at work?

b) for the money he spends, he's got a f*****g cheap watch!

 

[thalberg]

Nice, eins.  I like it.

[tonyf]

Looking at it from a different approach, you are now a graduate, are gainfully employed in a good profession, have a home, and are getting your life together. The missing element seems to be self confidence with yourself and your decisions. It should not matter what your family says or their opinions. This is your life but they probably having as difficult a time seeing you all grown up as you are in spreading your wings at being an independent mature person. I would not see a need for you to explain anything to your family, just tell them, with confidence, that this is a decision you made and a well thought out decision at that. Tell them that you are going to enjoy every minute of playing the piano and if they are in the neighborhood, they are always welcome to stop by to hear you play and to see how happy you are with your new life. Take your new stance and position in society PROUDLY. Telling them to mind their own business will just raise the hair on their back and instill disharmony. If they contributed to your financial support during the education phase, they were under no obligation to do this, however, you fulfilled their dream and youre's by graduating.

[catherinel]

Well Said!

[eins]

tonyf,
I think thalberg was mentioning this piano purchase to his (well off banker guy) bro on the background of being short of funds to finance this purchase. I would interpret thalberg's comment as a careful probing of his bro's willingness to help financially or maybe giving him some professional advice on how to  go about it. 

It does not look to me as if thalberg was looking for his family's approval.

just my 2c

[pianonut]

thalberg, you mentioned that if you had to send kids to college, you'd probably not know where to get it.  well, since you said you bought a home - before the piano -it's not like you're not making priorities.  if you hadn't bought the home, there would be less investment.  if you take care of your home, as i'm sure you do, it is a REALLY good investment.  we bought a home in pa (2nd home) and within 2 years made 100,000 appreciation (according to home sales in the area).  thankfully, it's a well made house and we haven't had to replace the roof or anything.

the secret to investments (in houses) is to start with as good of quality and location as you can afford.  then keep reselling.  that's the way to your kids education.  (may disagree with suze orman, too, because she says pay off the house asap -  BUT - i think the interest being higher is tax deductable and saves you abundle).  from an unsavy, but shrewd pianist.  another thing is that pianos are the same way.  if you take good care of each one you have, you can use it to lever up to the bosendorfer. (am too lazy to bother with my kawaii because i like it so much - but i bought it from a lady who used it for furniture? and never played it).  

[rich_galassini]

thalberg,

Much has been said here already and every bit of it is good. I want to add that pianists (and classical musicians in general) immerse themselves not just in the study of music, but also in the study of culture, politics, language, and all other arts as well.

Music does not get written in a vacuum and performance can be enhanced by understanding the influences around the composer and original performers of any piece. To be an effective musician is to be a scholar.  Unfortunately, to practice this craft you need an artistic instrument.

I am not sure what type of banking your brother does, but if he is like some finance "professionals" I have met, he may only need a good "pitch", a wide grin, and an Armani suit to be successful. There is no comparison.

Good Luck,

[thalberg]

Wow, you all have a lot of great insight.  I particularly appreciate the support and encouragement.

To address an issue from above---What were my motives behind telling my brother I was stressed about coming up with piano money?

My motives were this:  My brother never talks.  He makes me carry the whole conversation.  I needed something to say, and since the piano was on my mind, it was a convenient topic.  Very stupid, but I've learned my lesson.

Well, pianonut, you have some good financial advice. I like it. I will take your advice.  One thing I forgot to  mention--I was hired at a college, and at most colleges one of the perks is that your kids go for free.  I have no kids and might never, but I was just telling George he'd done a good job by providing this to his children.  If I had to do so, I think it would be tough! 

[eins]

well, in that case, thalberg, I'd hurry and make a lot of children, to maximise benefits 

[thalberg]

I love kids.  I'd have some immediately, but I'm not married.  (I'm 28).

[anony]

A rational investor bases purchase decisions on their associated opportunity cost. Assuming similar economic trends to the last century, $50k can be properly invested to grow to the order of half a million dollars in about thirty years, after inflation. Given this, one should purchase and keep a $50k item today if it would prove more useful than something worth ten times that amount in three decades.