Thank you Bono

[mikeyg]

You suck.   I was just reading through time, and lo and behold, what do i see?  Ther "G8" leaders have agreed to double their aid to africa.  what the ***?  this really pisses mi off.  thanks to you ad the rest of your retarded philanthropical celebrity friends, more of my money has been stolen from my pocket.  I can't wait till you go to hell, you *** son of a pregnant dog, I'm gonna take a leak on your grave.

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[BoliverAllmon]

You suck.   I was just reading through time, and lo and behold, what do i see?  Ther "G8" leaders have agreed to double their aid to africa.  what the ***?  this really pisses mi off.  thanks to you ad the rest of your retarded philanthropical celebrity friends, more of my money has been stolen from my pocket.  I can't wait till you go to hell, you *** son of a pregnant dog, I'm gonna take a leak on your grave.

isn't democracy great?

[mikeyg]

I don't see any three year olds here.  And I find this subject particularly enraging.  Another defeat for those with >half a brain

[mikeyg]

isn't democracy great?

No.  Anything involving the government is inherently bad.  But, democracy is the best alternative.

[BoliverAllmon]

without government there would be chaos. it is a necessary evil. I think we should curb the govt for sure though.

[mikeyg]

Exaactly.  I understand the need for some group that has police and stuff like that, but the government is just too large.

[BoliverAllmon]

indeed. how small do you think it should be?

[mikeyg]

Police, military, transportation, things like that.  They have no business being in the charity organizations like medicare and social security and welfare.

[BoliverAllmon]

most young people are against social security and medicare, but ask them again when they are older and they want their pills and they want them for FREE. hypocritcal really, but funny.

[mikeyg]

well, if you didn't take away a third of my paycheck, perhaps I could save some up for later.  not to mention, that doesn't mean that there won't be charities out there, they just won't be government run.

[keys]

K, so let’s classify “government” as any person who can take something from you by force. That takes care of the political aspect, as well as criminals in general. I think we need just enough political government to keep the other types of crooks in place. I’d say that the military and policing would be reasonable. Why transportation Mikeyg? Hehe, your political posts make me so happy.

[greyrune]

How do these posts not get blown to pieces? Will no one back me up, is this a conservative board, am i surrounded by talented, intelligent idiots?  I'm not even going to rant on this one, just voice my incredible dissapointment at the state of a board that lets a thread like this get by unrebuked  (well except by me).  Ah damn i can't help it.

most young people are against social security and medicare, but ask them again when they are older and they want their pills and they want them for FREE. hypocritcal really, but funny.

I thought it was the other way round, according to churchill (i think, someone like that)

"If at 20 a man is not a socialist, he has no heart.  If at 40 he's not a conservative he has no head."  Now i may be 19 and a socialist (or close) but i hope that at 40 i'll still at least be liberal.

No free health care??? how can this be good, if you have no money and need a bypass should you just go ahead and die?

Ok i'll restrain myself to that, i could go on and on and on, but that'd just be boring.

[BoliverAllmon]

well, if you didn't take away a third of my paycheck, perhaps I could save some up for later.  not to mention, that doesn't mean that there won't be charities out there, they just won't be government run.

humans would just spend it and still not save.

I get paid 800 bucks a month and I can pay by 250 dollar car payment, all of my gas, food, 100 dollars for tithing and 100 dollars for investment/retirement. If you want to save you can find ways to. getting more money would just mean everyone would spend more.

[keys]

oh greyrune, calm down.  I'm not saying that if you're poor and can't afford healthcare, you should die! I'm saying that the government is doing infinitely more harm then good providing health care! Our Canadian health care system has killed so many people, because the Government is grossly inefficient. You have to wait forever for diagnostic care, not because we don't have the resources to diagnose but because it is easier to tell people to wait for a MRI then to tell people to wait for surgery. It is just so messed up! And we aren't even aloud to have a public/private system, which defies all logic. If we had a two tiered health care system, the ones who could afford to pay for Medicare would, and that would make the wait-list shorter for the people who can't. We've tried public health care and proved it doesn't work. Same with public school. I don't get why we're still so scared of reform.

The Government isn't compassionate; it isn't the benchmark of morality. People are compassionate. Who would let their neighbor die if they had the means to support them? You have completely dismissed the good in people, and put your trust in the good of Government. What in all of your life's experiences made you think that that is a good idea? The Government has no means to support anyone. They are a burden. For every person they help, they harm ten more in the process.

[BoliverAllmon]

surprisingly alot of people would let their neighbors die.

[BoliverAllmon]

I meant to add that my parents make 8000 a month and can barely make the same amout in savings as I do. yes, they have more bills, but they are also terrible with money. They blow it on the stupidest things.

[keys]

humans would just spend it and still not save.

I get paid 800 bucks a month and I can pay by 250 dollar car payment, all of my gas, food, 100 dollars for tithing and 100 dollars for investment/retirement. If you want to save you can find ways to. getting more money would just mean everyone would spend more.

I think the issue is more that the government has taken away the feeling of personal responsibility.  If government services were removed we would all be fine. I would argue that we would all be much better off then we are now. 

[keys]

These “issues” are very similar to the ones we had to overcome to abolish slavery. People couldn’t imagine life without slaves; slaves were central to their lively hood. I’m sure there were many of the same types of arguments posed in favor of slavery as are now being posed in favor of taxation. The fact is that we do not need taxation for social programs, if we had no government run social programs the less fortunate would be much better off. Taxation is nothing but theft. It is just as morally wrong as slavery was, only it has now harmed far more people. And it hurts the poor the most. Anyone who is in favor of government run social programs does not have the interests of the poor at heart.  You feel the effects of the theft a lot more when you have no money. And it hurts a lot more to see what little money you have wasted by do-gooders out to appease their own consciences while living comfortably.

[mikeyg]

I meant to add that my parents make 8000 a month and can barely make the same amout in savings as I do. yes, they have more bills, but they are also terrible with money. They blow it on the stupidest things.

Other peoples lack of fiscal responsivility is not my problem.

[BoliverAllmon]

Other peoples lack of fiscal responsivility is not my problem.

not your problem no, but because tons of people are stupid with money, they will gripe at the govt when they want to retire. That is what happened originally and that is why we now have social security.