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Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering (Read 7578 times)

Offline fra ungdomsdagene

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Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
« on: July 17, 2005, 10:16:14 AM »

Fra

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #1 on: July 17, 2005, 11:20:45 AM »
You mean the fingering for the whole piece? This may take a while...

(I may just do it, but I cannot promise you when). ;)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline fra ungdomsdagene

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #2 on: July 17, 2005, 09:50:49 PM »
Fra

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #3 on: July 19, 2005, 08:00:23 PM »
Let us have a look at how to go about fingering on the Sinfonia.

First read through this thread where the basics are explained:


http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2458.msg21365.html#msg21365
(Mental practice – tips for fingering)


Now keep in mind that the fingering I am providing is a suggestion , so feel free to modify it to accommodate your physicality.

Consider the first two bars:



The top score is a possible fingering. The score below is the fingering I use. Is the top score wrong? Not necessarily. So why don’t I use it? If you look at the three places where I have circled, and if you try that fingering at the piano, you will see (and feel) that in those circled notes there is a strong contraction of the hand. I find this sort of contraction not only uncomfortable, but unnecessary.

If you now try my fingering you should feel immediately how much more comfortable it is since it involves no contraction of the hand. However it does involve a lot of passing over of the fingers over the thumb – which for me are not a problem – but maybe for someone else it is – so s/he would rather use the first fingering instead. So as you can see, there is no ideal “right for all” fingering, and ultimately the final fingering you arrive at will always be a compromise. However do not conclude for that that any fingering will do. There may be 5 or 6 fingerings that will work, but an infinite number that will simply be wrong.

In this particular piece one of the priorities is the holding of notes that need to be held and the release of notes that need to be released. So some awkward fingerings must be put up with in order to render the piece as written.

Perhaps the worst offender in this piece is the section below encircled (bar 9). It is a very awkward fingering and you will have to practise it consistently and repeatedly until it becomes second nature. (I certainly would be interested if anyone can come up with a less awkward fingering for it).



One important point is that fingering implies movement, so much of the awkwardness of a particular fingering may be due not to the fingering proper but to the movement associated with it. Most of the times, when faced wit a truly awkward fingering, a simple change of movement can render the fingering easy and effortless, so do not get stuck into weird limitations (“never play black notes with the thumb”; “always keep the forearms perpendicular to the piano”). Instead investigate a number of different movements until you hit the right co-ordinations. A very good example is to be found in bar 14, where what appears at first to be a really awkward fingering turns up to be totally effortless if you get the movements right:



The full fingering for this sinfonia is in the post below (and since I am at it, I also realised the ornaments). :D

Now your homework is to do the same for the English suite. :P ;)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #4 on: July 19, 2005, 08:01:46 PM »
Full fingering and ornaments for Sinfonia 1 in C.

Notes with round heads are to be played with the right hand.
Notes with square heads are to be played with the left.

(as with fingering, hand distribution is personal – there is some leeway on it).






Enjoy! :D

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #5 on: July 20, 2005, 07:36:31 AM »
These scores are not very clear, are they >:( I looked at them in the hosting site and they are fine and very clear. Perhaps they are too large to show the details here. I will try to post them again later line by line.

Sorry about that. :-\

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #6 on: July 20, 2005, 11:20:52 AM »
Just a test to see what a single line will look like. ???


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #7 on: July 20, 2005, 11:21:53 AM »
Still not very good. Here is just bar 1:



This is much better :D. I will post the other bars later today :P.

(round note heads - right hand / square note heads - left hand)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline Egghead

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #8 on: July 20, 2005, 12:09:42 PM »
Still not very good. Here is just bar 1:
...This is much better :D. I will post the other bars later today :P.
...Bernhard.
Hi Bernhard,
excellent stuff - I have been wondering whether your system supports colour.

I wonder if it's possible to simply print the fingering (i.e. the numbers) much larger. This might save you some work by allowing lower resolution - you can post the whole page in one go and we can still read it. :)
Even if the numbers overlap or partially hide the notes - no problem. The recipient already has the music!
Just an idea.

Kind regards,
Egghead
tell me why I only practice on days I eat

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #9 on: July 20, 2005, 01:59:40 PM »
Quote
I have been wondering whether your system supports colour.


Unfortunately it does not (I use “Personal composer”). I wish it did. :'(

Quote
I wonder if it's possible to simply print the fingering (i.e. the numbers) much larger. This might save you some work by allowing lower resolution - you can post the whole page in one go and we can still read it. 
Even if the numbers overlap or partially hide the notes - no problem. The recipient already has the music!
Just an idea.

In principle yes. But I doubt it would increase visibility, and it would actually be more work, since the fingerings as they are I already have. It is far less work to create new figures bar by bar, than it is to refinger the whole piece with a different font.

But thanks anyway for the suggestions :D. By the way did you get my last PM?

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

PS – See below for the remaining bars.

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #10 on: July 20, 2005, 02:00:19 PM »
bar 2



The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #11 on: July 20, 2005, 02:02:34 PM »
bar 3



The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #12 on: July 20, 2005, 02:05:27 PM »
bar 4


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #13 on: July 20, 2005, 02:07:43 PM »
 bar 5


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #14 on: July 20, 2005, 02:09:02 PM »
bar 6


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #15 on: July 20, 2005, 02:10:34 PM »
bar 7


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #16 on: July 20, 2005, 03:13:33 PM »
bar 8


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #17 on: July 20, 2005, 03:14:04 PM »
bar 9


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #18 on: July 20, 2005, 03:14:37 PM »
bar 10


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #19 on: July 20, 2005, 03:16:30 PM »
bar 11


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #20 on: July 20, 2005, 03:25:06 PM »
bar 12


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #21 on: July 20, 2005, 03:31:04 PM »
bar 13


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #22 on: July 20, 2005, 03:32:42 PM »
bar 14


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #23 on: July 20, 2005, 03:35:36 PM »
bar 15


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #24 on: July 20, 2005, 03:37:27 PM »
bar 16


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #25 on: July 20, 2005, 03:55:48 PM »
bar 17


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #26 on: July 20, 2005, 03:58:23 PM »
bar 18


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #27 on: July 20, 2005, 04:01:36 PM »
bar 19


The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #28 on: July 20, 2005, 04:08:06 PM »
bar 20 – 21



Best wishes,
Bernhard.
 :P :P :P
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline fra ungdomsdagene

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #29 on: August 27, 2005, 12:16:29 PM »
Dear Bernhard

Thanks a lot for your precious help, I really appreciated it !
You're right, with your fingering it is way more comfortable and there's way less contraction

Well, I don't know what to say if not: thank you, thank you, thank you!!

Fra

Offline ranakor

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Re: Bach: (Sinfonia1 - English SuiteII) fingering
«Reply #30 on: August 27, 2005, 04:19:26 PM »
bernhard when images get unclear here it's because when your browser resizes it to fit it does so without any filtering i suggest you get a freeware image program & resize them way down with a good filter so it fits the page & remains clear (& eventually to make that image a clickable link to the highter resolution image) it's a bit of work but much less than doing bars 1 per 1 for you