Todays concert pianists BORING?!

[pianowelsh]

I recently read an Arts supplement which lamented the 'fact' that today many of the pianists who are being turned out of the major conservatories (Julliard Moscow etc) are just boring and that so many of the recordings being made today are just fodder and dont satnd a patch to older recordings! What do you guys think? As a conservatoire graduate I would love to know what particularly the older forum members think and if there is a noticeable downturn in the inspirational qualities of young pianists why do you think this is?

[BoliverAllmon]

I find that was is being recorded tends to be garbage, but I have heard some no name pianists play amazingly beautiful on par with the greats. That phenomenon amazes me.

boliver

[Floristan]

This has been going on for a while now; it didn't just happen all of a sudden.  I think it started in the 70s.  The generation when Argerich came on the scene, from say 1950-1970, gave us an incredible number of top-rate artists.  She was the rare bird in having both unbelievable technique AND incredible musicality.  Her and Richter.  And Horowitz reemerged.  Garrick Ohlsson, Radu Lupu, someone else complete this list for me.  (It's early in the morning here and I'm having brain freeze.  I thought it was FRIDAY until I got on the bus and someone told me otherwise.  UGH.)

But then in the 70s, the conservatories started producing graduates with incredible techniques and little musicality.  The problem has been ongoing since then, IMO.  And I agree with Bolivar Allmon -- I have heard no-name pianists who have excellent technique and lots of musicality, and in the past this would have made them stand out, but now they go nowhere.  Since the 70s, if a pianist does not play the most difficult repertoire publically, it's like they don't exist. 

I wonder if concert promoters and record producers say things like, "Let me hear your 'Campanella,' your Rach3, your toccatas (yes, all of them since Schumann), your Godowsky-Chopin (you pick), that 'Transcendental Etude' no one can play, etc."  And I imagine the pianist replying, "Well, how about Beethoven, Op. 111?  I've got that.  Or Schubert's 'Wanderer.'  I've got that.  Or the 'Goldberg Variations.'  I can do that with the repeats!"  And then the promoter/producer replies: "Sorry, not enough pizazz, kid.  You're competing with Yundi Li and Lang Lang and that Hamelin fella.  That's what people want to hear, MONSTER PIANO!!!"  "But what about Mitsuko Uschida," the pianist asks.  "Fluke, total fluke, under the radar, and believe me, her star is fading fast.  Glad I don't manager her."

Just my little fantasy!     I could be all wrong! 

[BoliverAllmon]

I don't think you are that wrong though.

[Nightscape]

Yes!  I agree with Floristan.  However, this does not mean that there are no pianists alive today who play as well as the greats of the past.  The difference is that these pianists are virtually unknown.....  Once in a while, I come across a new recording that is simply spectatular in the revelations it brings to the music.  For example, Pierre-Laurent Aimard's recording of the Debussy Images and Etudes.

I think conservatories spew out the technical wizards because it is far easier to find and train pianists with flawless technique than pianists with flawless musical insight.  And conservatories often want to graduate as many pianists as possible to compete with other conservatories in today's market.

[thalbergmad]

I might be making a gross generalisation, but from what i have heard of the pianists today, they seem to be all fingers and no soul.

The previous comments seem to sum things up rather nicely. I have heard nothing that compares to Richter, Horowitz, Arrau etc.

[Motrax]

There's one pianist I'm particularly interested in who can be compared with the likes of Horowitz et. al. (In my most humble opinion ).

For the most part, it's true that the piano world is in a deplorable state. However, I think there is some small portion of "golden age" pianists waiting patiently to be noticed. Child prodigies with ridiculous technique will lose their appeal soon enough, and the music world will be back in the hands of the good guys.  It just might take a few decades to happen.

[BoliverAllmon]

I personally would rather have a pianist play amazingly well and have a smaller repertoire instead of playing everything and being average. Why don't the cd companies see this?

[thracozaag]

I personally would rather have a pianist play amazingly well and have a smaller repertoire instead of playing everything and being average. Why don't the cd companies see this?

  It simply doesn't sell.

koji

[BoliverAllmon]

  It simply doesn't sell.

koji

one word.


HOROWITZ

[thracozaag]

one word.


HOROWITZ

  Not all of Horowitz's albums sold well, the Clementi was a flop, for example.

koji

[BoliverAllmon]

  Not all of Horowitz's albums sold well, the Clementi was a flop, for example.

koji

maybe so, but alot of his stuff sold real well.

[BoliverAllmon]

This is what I don't understand. Why wouldn't the recording companies do something like this.

Look at the musicality of the pianist and nothing else. If they have great ability more than likely they could record a CD or two. In the contract require them to make one CD and they work on new repertoire each to make a CD either every year or every other year. I think that is reasonable. A competent pianist could learn an hour's worth of music quite easily in a year. If the pianist has a 40 year career, that would quite a discography.

boliver

[piazzo23]

Brighter voiced pianos, performer's lighter technique. They don't sing, there´s no real legato.

Take an example: Krystian Zimerman, incredible musicality!!! incredible speed , but he doesn´t use much arm weight, he doesn´t press down.

That´s my idea. It´s like someone said on other post from the russian school, the whole body involved, there´s no such thing anymore in most of today´s pianists.

They want a crisp, tiny, clean sound. And so they want their pianos to sound too.

Compare De Pachman's  or Richter hands' musculature with today's pianists.

De Pachman was the one who said  milking cows was the best exercise a pianist could do.

Am I wrong? Probably...

I still like K. Zimerman, and think is one of the best alive.

[Nightscape]

I agree that that "crisp, clean" sound isn't the best for a lot of music - especially romantic period music (the most popular period for classical audiences).  But that approach is certainly appropriate in many cases - like playing certain pieces by Bach, Mozart, and certain pieces by Ravel (like the piano concerto in G, K. Zimmerman's recording of that is in my opinion the best out there).

But a truly great pianist should be able to produce a variety of sounds and colors - that Ravel disc is the only one by K. Zimmerman I own, so I'm not familiar with any of his other work.

[pianowelsh]

Interesting ideas guys! I am particularly interested in the idea that things have degraded? since the 1970's in the origionality stakes. Why do people think this is - are we a less musical group of people these days? Is the training at fault? is it the instruments? or even the society pressure we grow up in? but why is the notion of pianists being boring beginning to be the status quo amongst the critics and what can we do about it?

[thracozaag]

maybe so, but alot of his stuff sold real well.

  But Columbia and RCA ended up actually LOSING money on some of his albums after all the promotion, etc

koji

[prometheus]

Its pop culture.

And classical music has become part of it.

[thracozaag]

Its pop culture.

And classical music has become part of it.

  Very true (for better or worse).

koji

[wintervind]

The trouble I see is that pianists these days have had to live up to the greats, or in other words mimic what they have done in order to create popularity.

In my opinion their isn't enough independent experimentation without a teacher and so these "piano monkeys" (if i may say so produce thoughless, going through the motions  performances that are clearly choreographed by the teacher.

There is one thing us pianists need to understand. People like familiarity. Look at the popularity of fast food. They want to hear/eat something familiar, or in the words of my father, "I want to hear something I can tap my foot to"

So keep playing that Mozart and Lizst!
 

[Teddybear]

I wonder if concert promoters and record producers say things like, "Let me hear your 'Campanella,' your Rach3, your toccatas (yes, all of them since Schumann), your Godowsky-Chopin (you pick), that 'Transcendental Etude' no one can play, etc."  And I imagine the pianist replying, "Well, how about Beethoven, Op. 111?  I've got that.  Or Schubert's 'Wanderer.'  I've got that.  Or the 'Goldberg Variations.'  I can do that with the repeats!"  And then the promoter/producer replies: "Sorry, not enough pizazz, kid.  You're competing with Yundi Li and Lang Lang and that Hamelin fella.  That's what people want to hear, MONSTER PIANO!!!"  "But what about Mitsuko Uschida," the pianist asks.  "Fluke, total fluke, under the radar, and believe me, her star is fading fast.  Glad I don't manager her."

This is the funniest thing I've seen in months.

T

[Floristan]

    I try....

[piazzo23]

I´m sick of all that asian pianists!! Lang-lang, Yundi Li, Uchida, Argerich.

[thracozaag]

I´m sick of all that asian pianists!! Argerich.

LMAO

koji

[Dazzer]

yes i know we're all boring...

- waves singapore flag -

[piazzo23]

 ;

LMAO

koji

[pita bread]

Iґm sick of all that asian pianists!! Lang-lang, Yundi Li, Uchida, Argerich.

But there's so many more of us 

[wintervind]

I´m sick of all that asian pianists!! Lang-lang, Yundi Li, Uchida, Argerich.

take the racist statements somewhere else please. The don't belong on this forum.

[Dazzer]

;

if you read the post clearly, you'll figure out why koji is laughing.

i for one don't remember when argerich was asian.

[bernhard]

i for one don't remember when argerich was asian.

A while ago, there was a website called “The Argerich conspiracy” on which a very good case was made for the theory that Argerich and Mitsuko Uchida were actually the same person (photo comparisons, the fact that the two of them were never seen together, etc.). Unfortunately the site has been shut down (a cover-up?), so I cannot direct you there.

So, as you see, if this theory turns out to be the truth, then there is a good case for Argerich being Asian after all.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[danyal]

Lukas Vondracek

The one and only student of Ashkenazy. About 18 now. He's absolutely incredible!

I think the only reason the masses of todays pianists are boring and dont compare with the greats is that, only the greats made it. There were obviously also the masses then bbut they are not worth talking about now. Dont worry, only the best of us will shine in 50 years.