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chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp) (Read 9406 times)

Offline stzorfas

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chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
« on: July 21, 2005, 04:28:52 PM »
I am playing the chopin etude in A-flat major opus 25 #1.  When playing the fourths and fifths
in the left hand against the sixths in the right hand, are any of the notes in the right hand
played in unison with the notes in the left hand?? or are all the notes syncopated.  If this
is not clear let me know.

Offline Etude

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #1 on: July 21, 2005, 08:22:15 PM »
Do you mean the sextuplets against semiquavers and quintuplets?  In one hand if you have four notes, and the other six, the four notes should be played in the same time as the six, and should be equal in length to each other.

Offline stzorfas

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #2 on: July 21, 2005, 11:52:58 PM »
to etude-de-conc: In measure 18, does the E note in the bass play in unison with the
C note in the right hand and do all the subsequent notes in the fourths play in unison
with the sixths in the right hand are all the notes "staggered" between the
hands.  Also, how do I play the fifths(quintuplets) starting in measure 30 ?

 

Offline pianohopper

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #3 on: July 23, 2005, 02:31:52 AM »
I always just played it all over and uneven, and nobody complained. 

Also I have heard it referred to as "Shepard Boy"
"Today's dog in the alley is tomorrow's moo goo gai pan."  ~ Chinese proverb

Offline steinwayguy

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #4 on: July 23, 2005, 02:53:35 AM »
Does
not
matter.

Offline stzorfas

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #5 on: July 23, 2005, 07:42:51 AM »
To all who answered my question thanks so much.  Obviously, I was being too
technical. 

Offline bernhard

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #6 on: July 23, 2005, 08:08:31 PM »
Here is how you do it:

If we start with bar 18:

Figure no. 1



You play it like so:

Figure no. 2



Notes enclosed in rectangles are to be played together, the lines indicated where the notes fall when not played together. Notice that the notes that are not palyed together are exactly halfway between notes (this is mathematical).  If we isolate just one figuration (enclosed in a circle on figure no.1 above) we can see the relationship between the time values:

Figure no. 3



Treat likewise all similar bars.

[To be continued…]
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #7 on: July 23, 2005, 08:30:30 PM »

[…continued from previous post]

Next, here is bar 22:

Figure no. 4


This is very similar to bar 18 above, except that in the left hand the last fourplet reverts to a triplet on the last three notes.

Here is how you play it:

Figure no. 5


Finally bar 30:

Figure no. 6


Play it like that:

Figure no. 7


The exact placement of the notes can be mathematically calculated, and this is what you get (applied only to the encircled figuration on figure no. 6)

Figure no. 8


I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.



The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline stzorfas

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #8 on: July 24, 2005, 07:47:58 PM »
 To bernhard:  Thank you so much for your thorough explanation.  I now
understand exactly how to play the "fourths" and "fifths" in the left hand.
It was important to me to get this right!!!

Offline sharon_f

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #9 on: July 24, 2005, 09:22:11 PM »
I am also learning this Etude and thank Bernhard for his exceptionally clear and helpful post.

BTW, stzorfas, how's it going? My hands are not terribly large and I am having a difficult time of it right now, but I know it will come eventually.
There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music and cats.
Albert Schweitzer

Offline pianoky

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #10 on: July 25, 2005, 10:02:37 AM »
hi

i am also learning this etude :).  my hands are not small but i think flexibility is more important than having big hands.  My teacher didn't want me to stretch my hands. 

Offline stzorfas

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #11 on: July 26, 2005, 05:19:53 AM »
To sharon:  so far so good.  I am finally on the last page.  I have found that memorizing the piece early on helps a great deal.  I have been using the metronome to build up my speed and legato and now I am trying to make it as expressive as possible.  It is
truly a remarkable piano composition!  I would suggest hearing Don Betts play this
piece- he brings out the melody in the uppermost notes in the right hand but also very skillfully brings out more of the "inner voices". Link on to his site and you will see what I mean- http://innig.net/music/betts-chopin/.  Good luck!  Bernhard's explanation of the
"fifths" in the left hand towards the end really helped me out.

Offline bernhard

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #12 on: July 26, 2005, 03:44:14 PM »
hi

i am also learning this etude :).  my hands are not small but i think flexibility is more important than having big hands.  My teacher didn't want me to stretch my hands. 

You are all welcome. :)

Your teacher is right. There is no need to stretch hands. In fact this etude teaches circular (elliptical) movement of the forearms in order to bring the fingers into position (all the while keeping an accommodating wrist). To stretch the hands over the notes and then try to play the notes by lifting the fingers like little hammers (a la Hanon) is a sure way to fail in playing it properly.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline pianoky

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Re: chopin etude opus 25 #1 (Aeolian Harp)
«Reply #13 on: July 26, 2005, 03:53:22 PM »
hi everyone,

Yes.  that's what my teacher taught me about this circular movement of the forearms in order to bring fingers into position as bernhard said.
 
Nice to meet you guys