Rubinstein vs. Yundi Li

[vladhorwz]

Ok.  I have always favored Rubinstein's Chopin, his recordings and videos are phenomenal.  I got Yundi Li's CD and the more I listen to it, I am not finding much I don't like about it.  Age adjusted, who do you think is better??

[hazypurple21]

My personal preference is Yundi, but then again, I don't really care too much for Rubinstein's interpretations, it just doesn't speak to me. (imagine the response I usually get when I say that) To me, Yundi has such an energy in his performances,  and you can tell he loves it. He's always heartfelt, and plays a very convincing Chopin, even with the pieces I'm not in love with.

[yoshiki]

I think Rubinstein played Chopin too fast...... Yundi plays at the right speed therefore his chopin is more comfortable to listen to.

[donjuan]

I got Yundi Li's CD and the more I listen to it, I am not finding much I don't like about it.

Thats so not what music is about.  It's more about finding things you do like and cant imagine the music being without. Artur Rubinstein has the most amazing sincerity in his playing that perhaps no living pianist today can match.


....imho!

[felia]

i think both are them are equavelent good. Sometimes i find that Rubinstein's recording are more mature maybe because of his experience of life i think. On the other hand, Yundi's Chopin is much more younger and innocent, he shows Chopin's ripe and young ages.

Anyway i like both of them, one is sweet another is bitter sweet. 

[Barbosa-piano]

i think both are them are equavelent good. Sometimes i find that Rubinstein's recording are more mature maybe because of his experience of life i think. On the other hand, Yundi's Chopin is much more younger and innocent, he shows Chopin's ripe and young ages.

Anyway i like both of them, one is sweet another is bitter sweet.

I agree, both are exceptional in their own ways.

[vladhorwz]

Thats so not what music is about.  It's more about finding things you do like and cant imagine the music being without. Artur Rubinstein has the most amazing sincerity in his playing that perhaps no living pianist today can match.


....imho!

Saying there is not much I don't like about it is a round about, double negative way of saying I like everything about it    Therefore my post fits your criteria for what music is about I hope 

And I agree with you on Rubinstein, he loved Chopin and it was obvious when he performed.  He was my favorite for the last 25 years.  I will see Yundi next April he'll be performing Chopin's Grand Polonaise brillante and I guess we'll see how good he is.  His tone is great though.

[musicsdarkangel]

Yundi.

[pita bread]

Rubinstein was a master.

Yundi Li is still young but he already shows great potential in both Chopin and Liszt, give him some time and he'll get even better.

[steinwayguy]

Rubinstein will always be known as one of the greatest Chopin interpreters of all time. However, Yundi Li might very well be too. I have only heard his scherzi, but they are absolutely electrifying!!

[dikai_yang]

just watched li yundi's chopin piano concerto no. 1 from the competition final....
that's the slowest recording i've ever heard
it's quite amazing how he can keep at that speed throughout without speeding up....
---
other than the concerto, quite impressive....
but he can't really be compared to rubinstein...
rubinstein is the legend... he owns it!!

[march05]

i wouldn't say 'honest' to describe rubinstein's chopin...

i like yundi li's chopin cd very much (except sonata no 3 1st mvt). but honestly, what happened since 2001? 4 years, and still nothing but chopin and liszt?? he studied in germany all these while, but why nothing of beethoven, bach in his repertoire? now he's going to russia i heard, wonder what he's up to... 

[etudes]

yep now he study with Lev Naumov (spelling)very famous russian piano pedagogy
he just finished study with Arie Vardi in Hannover

[hazypurple21]

i wouldn't say 'honest' to describe rubinstein's chopin...

i like yundi li's chopin cd very much (except sonata no 3 1st mvt). but honestly, what happened since 2001? 4 years, and still nothing but chopin and liszt?? he studied in germany all these while, but why nothing of beethoven, bach in his repertoire? now he's going to russia i heard, wonder what he's up to... 

Agreed. He's gotta be a little more versatile. Especially with some real core repertoire. I'd love to hear some Well Tempered Clavier or French Suites from him, or some Beethoven sonatas.

[brewtality]

Simply put, Yundi Li cannot compare to Rubinstein who I feel is the pianist who plays the largest amount of Chopin well, even Cortot isn't as consistent. Rubinstein's first mazurkas cycle is the benchmark for me (although for some individual mazurkas I prefer Freidman, Rosenthal and Horowitz).

[pita bread]

Agreed. He's gotta be a little more versatile. Especially with some real core repertoire. I'd love to hear some Well Tempered Clavier or French Suites from him, or some Beethoven sonatas.

Why is that such a necessity? If you want to hear Beethoven and Bach, just listen to someone else.

[yoshiki]

Yundi Li once claim that that is no hurry for him to play other composers yet. He would rather polish up all his Chopin first.
P.S. I wouldn't mind if I can only play Chopin but not other composers.

[brewtality]

Yundi Li once claim that that is no hurry for him to play other composers yet. He would rather polish up all his Chopin first.
P.S. I wouldn't mind if I can only play Chopin but not other composers.

That would get frightfully dull. I don't care if Li only plays Chopin and Liszt but ,as fast as his octaves are, I am so sick of hearing him play La Campanella. A bit of variety would be nice.

[musicsdarkangel]

I am interested in how he would interpret Rachmaninoff.

I have a feeling it would be either excellent or mediocre.

[keys]

I love Rubinstein. I hadn't heard of Yundi Li until I joined this forum.

[stevie]

the perplexing fact is - he apparently practices 8 hours a day, and takes half of the year off touring to study.....what the hell does he do in all this time? polish up his fantasie impromptu?

[pita bread]

No, he's working on beating Cziffra's octaves and developing the world's fastest 1-3 chromatics... oh yeah, and performing the Chopin Piano Concerto #1 with a huge memory slip in the second movement.

[thierry13]

I am interested in how he would interpret Rachmaninoff.

I have a feeling it would be either excellent or mediocre.

It would be mediocre if you want my opinion. But his chopin is excellent !

[piazzo23]

I only downloaded his Fantasy Impromptu video. I like his musicality, but his touch is too much on the air when pianissimo. I can do that too! It´s a "fake technique".

It´s ok too play on the air to gain speed, but in slow singable sections, there´s no purpose, it´s only a bad habit (he could lift the pedal in those sections if he could do a legitimate legato) . You have to gain control with pianissimo legato.

I like him, he will correct that eventually.

Rubinstein always did legato in slow pianissimo without the need of pedal.

[etudes]

No, he's working on beating Cziffra's octaves and developing the world's fastest 1-3 chromatics... oh yeah, and performing the Chopin Piano Concerto #1 with a huge memory slip in the second movement.

third movement!!!! in Chopin Competition
but i dont want to blame coz he is better than me
btw his octave technique can equal with horowitz and cziffra according to his campanella and rigoletto(in the ending)

[pita bread]

Third movement? I saw him play live, and he had a slip at the beginning of the second.

[musicsdarkangel]

there's no way Yundi's octaves can match up to Horowitz's.


Or Gilels', Cziffra is a possibility.


But seriously, Horowitz looked like he was spazzing when he did octaves!  That's how fast they were.  And accurate.

And to be honest, I think that the speed taken could only be achieved by using only 5 on all notes in the octave.

I know Horowitz didn't use 4, I'm not sure about Gilels, but if Gilels also used all 5, then that would make my point pretty evident.

Yundi uses 4.

[thierry13]

In what piece did horowitz show his ultimate octave skills?

[hodi]

check out horowit'z rach3 for his unbeatable octaves

i think that it's in the end of the cadenza in the 1st movement

[stevie]

also in live recordings of the tchaikovsky 1st, in the 3rd movement octave cadenza.. 

but still, i think yundi's octaves can match him, if you listen to alot of his playing..his ability is just as freakish as horowitz and cziffra.

[maxy]

I prefer Rubinstein.

Yundi is good, very good.  But, I always get the feeling that he tries too much to please in his playing, to the point that it feels superficial.

[vladhorwz]

I prefer Rubinstein.

Yundi is good, very good.  But, I always get the feeling that he tries too much to please in his playing, to the point that it feels superficial.

True.  Rubinstein was so relaxed at the piano.  He looked like he was playing because he loved the music.He never looks like he is trying to impress.  Maybe when you become a master you can fake the sincerity but he really looked like he was playing it for the sake of making beautiful music, not to be known as the best.  Maybe that's why he was considered one of the best because he didn't give the impression that's what he wanted.

[stevie]

there's no way Yundi's octaves can match up to Horowitz's.


Or Gilels', Cziffra is a possibility.


But seriously, Horowitz looked like he was spazzing when he did octaves!  That's how fast they were.  And accurate.

And to be honest, I think that the speed taken could only be achieved by using only 5 on all notes in the octave.

I know Horowitz didn't use 4, I'm not sure about Gilels, but if Gilels also used all 5, then that would make my point pretty evident.

Yundi uses 4.

are you serious? the exact opposite is true, every famous piansit uses 4 and 5

yundi is the only one who always uses 5, and thats one of the most astonishing things about him.

also bear in mind people, that yundi is only 22 or so, he has plenty time to mature, when rubinstein was that age, it was 1908...the recordings we hear of him are in his later life, its hard to judge fairly

[piazzo23]

True.  Rubinstein was so relaxed at the piano.  He looked like he was playing because he loved the music.He never looks like he is trying to impress.  Maybe when you become a master you can fake the sincerity but he really looked like he was playing it for the sake of making beautiful music, not to be known as the best.  Maybe that's why he was considered one of the best because he didn't give the impression that's what he wanted.

Yes, to play for the sssake of playing.

[etudes]

sorry to say that i think cziffra´s octave can match or even better than horowitz
listen his transcriptions esp.flight of bumblebee

[toymaker]

sorry to say that i think cziffra´s octave can match or even better than horowitz
listen his transcriptions esp.flight of bumblebee

Cziffra's video performing Liszt's "Grand Galop Chromatique" is one of the most jaw-dropping experiences I've had in my life.
However, none can beat Horowitz as long as octaves are concerned. If you can find, check: Liszt Sonata (Prestissimo section, near the end of the sonata), 1932 recording. I wish I had a visual on this.

[toymaker]

Check https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11260.msg117642.html#msg117642 for some very interesting stuff!

[musicsdarkangel]

sorry to say that i think cziffra´s octave can match or even better than horowitz
listen his transcriptions esp.flight of bumblebee

You've got to be kidding.

First of all, the bumblebee octaves are played Broken, they are not real octaves.  One hand takes each note.  This is why it doesn't sound extremely dense in lower bass or higher treble.

Second of all, Volodos plays that transcription faster than Cziffra does.

Thirdly, Horowitz was the king of octaves.  Period.  If he wanted to, he could slaughter anybody with pretty much any octave passage.  This was undeniable, and I'm starting to believe that no one who uses 4 on black keys could take him (like Cziffra).  The two fastest octave recording of the Tchaik 1 belong to Horowitz, and Gilels, who both used 5 on all octaves.

[musicsdarkangel]

are you serious? the exact opposite is true, every famous piansit uses 4 and 5

yundi is the only one who always uses 5, and thats one of the most astonishing things about him.

also bear in mind people, that yundi is only 22 or so, he has plenty time to mature, when rubinstein was that age, it was 1908...the recordings we hear of him are in his later life, its hard to judge fairly

Yundi always uses 5's?  Seriously?

[etudes]

You've got to be kidding.

First of all, the bumblebee octaves are played Broken, they are not real octaves.  One hand takes each note.  This is why it doesn't sound extremely dense in lower bass or higher treble.

Second of all, Volodos plays that transcription faster than Cziffra does.

Thirdly, Horowitz was the king of octaves.  Period.  If he wanted to, he could slaughter anybody with pretty much any octave passage.  This was undeniable, and I'm starting to believe that no one who uses 4 on black keys could take him (like Cziffra).  The two fastest octave recording of the Tchaik 1 belong to Horowitz, and Gilels, who both used 5 on all octaves.

i dont think volodos play it faster than cziffra and i know that piece i have a score
and try to play once

[brewtality]

Cziffra live in paris (57) time: 1'26"
Volodos studio time: 1'30"
 
Cziffra plays the opening octave passage MUCH faster than Volodos, so fast I had real trouble keeping up while following the score.

[felia]

are you serious? the exact opposite is true, every famous piansit uses 4 and 5

yundi is the only one who always uses 5, and thats one of the most astonishing things about him.

also bear in mind people, that yundi is only 22 or so, he has plenty time to mature, when rubinstein was that age, it was 1908...the recordings we hear of him are in his later life, its hard to judge fairly

agree. Yundi is still young. 4 and 5 should be the normal fingering for pianists.Yundi uses 5 maybe because of the size of his hand..

[musicsdarkangel]

Cziff and Volodos play it the same tempo really.

[stevie]

Cziffra's video performing Liszt's "Grand Galop Chromatique" is one of the most jaw-dropping experiences I've had in my life.
However, none can beat Horowitz as long as octaves are concerned. If you can find, check: Liszt Sonata (Prestissimo section, near the end of the sonata), 1932 recording. I wish I had a visual on this.

Lang Lang slaughtered Horowitz's octaves in the HR2 transcription

[etudes]

Cziffra live in paris (57) time: 1'26"
Volodos studio time: 1'30"
 
Cziffra plays the opening octave passage MUCH faster than Volodos, so fast I had real trouble keeping up while following the score.

yeah Cziffra play the octave passage at the beginning faster than volodos
about fingering of yundi li i agree that he has not so big hand he has to trill in campanella with 4 5 and after that part running in 32th notes with all 1 4 5 4 so i think he couldnt reach octave with 3rd finger

[stevie]

yeah Cziffra play the octave passage at the beginning faster than volodos
about fingering of yundi li i agree that he has not so big hand he has to trill in campanella with 4 5 and after that part running in 32th notes with all 1 4 5 4 so i think he couldnt reach octave with 3rd finger

either that or he wants to show off his 4/5 trill and dexterity

[vladhorwz]

I don't like Yundi Li's Campanalla at all.  His 4/5 trill though is pretty impressive.
I much prefer Evgeny Kissin's performance in London.  I know everyone here hates Kissin...    Just watching his hair fly around is worth the price of admission. 

[BoliverAllmon]

Lang Lang slaughtered Horowitz's octaves in the HR2 transcription

Hamelin is still better.

[stevie]

Hamelin is still better.

hamelin plays a different piece of music, how can you compare?

they are completely different kinds of pianists, hamelin emphasises smoothness, whereas langlang emphasises the contrasts in music.

i believe langlang is one of the most talented piansits living in the world today, what he does with his talent can be debated en mass, but noone can deny he is incredibly gifted.

[BoliverAllmon]

they both play HR2