A question for republicans

[i_m_robot]

Answer self, if you would, honestly and truly


why did you vote for bush?


this is not a bush bashing topic

self does not understand why

and would really like to know

if you would

[musik_man]

Because we agree with Bush more often than we did with Kerry.

[i_m_robot]

sorry self meant personally

not as a group

[vences5]

Changing presidents at a time of war is not a very good idea. Among a few other things...

[c18cont]

BUT..BUTttttt,

There would BE NO war...(of any kind...) if not for the entire ADMINISTRATION..(NOT Bush alone, or even plural...DON'T blame it on him...look to Pearl and Rove and Cheney and a dozen others, who are the REAL administration...Read all you can find..)

Surely some realize what is going on, is a continuance of FARRRR right ideas pre-dating even the World Wars...(Boy, we can't go there can we....?) Disclaimer: I am NOT saying what is best...I am only saying be careful at taking things at face (or less), value.

Remember that this group has VOWED to destroy the social program "New Deal" ideas, in particular Social Security and Middle American ideas of equality of nations, rather than Government of conquest...They WANT International Conquest...They WANT the United States to be the world leader; even conquerer!...(That MAY or MAY NOT be a good idea...You decide)..

Remember the ideas about stopping SS were brought forth anew, according to some sources..(Anybody remember?) in Texas, in the EARLY 1990's, and they began grooming a candidate to do so AT THAT TIME...(If you want the quotes...I am not able to repeat them, but many agree it is from reliable sources, and at least begs a careful look, Anyone have info at hand?)?

As does the possible Bilderberg connection..(Boy, I have really left the mainstream now, I suppose...), but there is evidence much may stem from The Hague and and other one world govt. plans...with the US being that government...REMEMBER.. There is a large percent of Americans by region, who believe that would be best...(Again...no sources...but I am just  rambling anyway

All I am saying is ...Don't just accept what your government tells you. That is the American way...THAT! and nothing less, is our HERITAGE....and our guarantee of rule BY THE PEOPLE...! Not a priveliged few...This country was BORN of tghat belief...

John

[pianobabe_56]

I believe Bush is a good man, with good morals. Yes, we went into Iraq unprepared, and the whole War against Terrorism has turned into a fiasco, but I feel more secure with a man like Bush who's out there doing something than I would with someone in office who sits there and makes slick speeches.

[i_m_robot]

Changing presidents at a time of war is not a very good idea. Among a few other things...

this is an interesting point my bro in law pointed out

unfortunately he wasnt a citizen at the time so he couldnt vote

[i_m_robot]

All I am saying is ...Don't just accept what your government tells you. That is the American way...THAT! and nothing less, is our HERITAGE....and our guarantee of rule BY THE PEOPLE...! Not a priveliged few...This country was BORN of tghat belief...

John

it may have been born that way

but people are too busy trying to survive to win it back

corporation hold to much power

There would BE NO war...(of any kind...) if not for the entire ADMINISTRATION..(NOT Bush alone, or even plural...DON'T blame it on him...look to Pearl and Rove and Cheney and a dozen others, who are the REAL administration...Read all you can find..)

sorry, want to know why they support him

not why we shouldnt

[thracozaag]

Answer self, if you would, honestly and truly


why did you vote for bush?


this is not a bush bashing topic

self does not understand why

and would really like to know

if you would

  I didn't vote for Bush.

koji

[BoliverAllmon]

  I didn't vote for Bush.

koji

are you republican though?

[thracozaag]

are you republican though?

  Libertarian; I lean conservative on many issues, liberal on others.

koji

[BoliverAllmon]

  Libertarian; I lean conservative on many issues, liberal on others.

koji

I am also libertarian. I wish the government would just take a more hands off approach.

[thracozaag]

I am also libertarian. I wish the government would just take a more hands off approach.

  I firmly believe our founding fathers would be horrified at how invasive our government has become.

koji

[c18cont]

Then all must have full liberity, (within the def, of "Libertarian..."),

Is that a reasonable definition under the present danger from individual terrorist attack?

It does require that a person.. " be free to act as they desire short of physical attack and interaction not desired by another.."..(paraphrased...as I recall..Perhaps Libertarianism is not really possible in a modern world, as we are so closely associated today...)

John

[BoliverAllmon]

  I firmly believe our founding fathers would be horrified at how invasive our government has become.

koji

agreed

[i_m_robot]

hey

hey

hey

thats not what this topic is about

self wants to hear from actually republicans

self understands your views and has heard them many times

would like to hear what republicans have to say

[BoliverAllmon]

I chose Bush because I didn't think it was wise to change presidents in the middle of war and I hated Kerry's ideas.

[c18cont]

Well,

I also disliked the Kerry platform, and believe he was indeed a terrible (!) choice for a candidate...

However, I could not support the "Bush Doctrine" of (so called by some), "Empire" or ....  "Nation Building". I also saw problems in the general benevolent programs like Social Security coming from the right...and I believe in some social programs...

I took what seemed to me to be the less dangerous to my own beliefs for this nation....

(But I guess I could have voted independant or write-in...)

It is of note, however, and should be remembered; The actual "mood" of the nation seems tired of mealy-mouth, and patronizing killers..etc, by a bit more than half the electorate, as shown by the vote, AND..the turning back to a more fundamental view of faith in Christianity, and so the nation may well go...And it may prove to be necessary, if not actually "right.

Whether it is for the best will be something unknown for some years hence...Only history from the future can tell those still alive in that newer age...And so far, we don't act very well in looking at history's lessons...

John

[i_m_robot]

confused?

did you vote for bush?

[keys]

I am also libertarian. I wish the government would just take a more hands off approach.

thataboy. You're not a true libertarian though, libertarianism leaves no room for religion. That is why Ayn Rand ended up with a bit of a cult worshipping libertarianism.

I found that the label "Juris Naturalis" was a better fit for me.

I am Canadian, so I didn't vote for Bush. I would have though. I am anti-war, but Kerry wouldn't have stopped the war.  Bush was the lesser of two evils

But I am not American. Most of my American political information comes from Jon Stewart.

[BoliverAllmon]

What is Juris Naturalis?

[i_m_robot]

I am Canadian, so I didn't vote for Bush. I would have though. I am anti-war, but Kerry wouldn't have stopped the war.  Bush was the lesser of two evils

But I am not American. Most of my American political information comes from Jon Stewart.

.....

please people

self wants to hear from other republicans

not liberal, democrats or people from other countries

please

[keys]

It is "Higher Law" it consists of two principles. The first is, do all you have agreed to do. The second is do not encroach on other persons or their property.

I believe it was a precursor to Libertarianism. Richard Maybury wrote a bit about it. You can read some of his views at: https://www.themasterspen.com/archives/000319.html (sorry I couldn't find a better link.)

Maybury wrote a great collection of  books.

[keys]

.....

please people

self wants to hear from other republicans

not liberal, democrats or people from other countries

please

musik_man told you that Bush was the lesser of two evils. I think that was about it.  Ask a different question if you're not getting the answers you're looking for.

Are you asking if people voted for Bush as a person, or if they voted for the republican party dispite Bush as leader? Be more specific.

[i_m_robot]

self has already said personally

and please

please many times

republican answers only

[c18cont]

Indeed,

I am of the opinion, as stated elsewhere by me ..(? Can't remember...), But roughly....Many Americans are fed up, angry, patriotic, looking for the orig. "roots"...etc. They are tired of liberal ideas; nevermind that many such ideas ARE of "God" and Compassion and interest in preventing such as 9/11, and good for the country...

They voted rep...

In addition, you have to remember, as stated by high ranking reps...They meant NOT to be beaten again...as they so disliked Clinton...they vowed to win...and win they did..and all you had to do was do a little reading and you could SEE how lost and surprised in the trenches, the Dems, were....I tell you they simply did not SEE the danger to their success until it was too late....Period!...The Rebublicans worked their A---- off, and it paid off...in votes to some extent, and in support in the actions after the 2000 election count...! where it really counted!

Then in 2004...they select Kerry to beat this grass roots reaction to the few extremists in the demo party? You gotta be kiddin'...NO way could Kerry win, and, didn't they KNOW that before the election? Thats why the vote was a lot greater republican than in 2000..

It was NOT that  Mr Bush is that great...It is that Kerry was that  Bad of a choice!

John

[c18cont]

Yes, I am Not a rep, or anything else actually, but I assume you have an open thread....It is so required.

Just ignore my post if it is of no value to the originator...

John

[i_m_robot]

but I assume you have an open thread

you make a good point

and this is what self believes as well

but you are not a republican

and the name of this topic is

a question for republicans

thank you for you contribution

can we have a little more personal republican input though

[bernhard]

self has already said personally

and please

please many times

republican answers only

If libertarians can answer so can I (I am the mother of all libertarians).

Very few people voted for Bush. Both elections were rigged. The real interesting question is : “How did he get away with it?”.

[BoliverAllmon]

If libertarians can answer so can I (I am the mother of all libertarians).

Very few people voted for Bush. Both elections were rigged. The real interesting question is : “How did he get away with it?”.

how do you figure this?

[c18cont]

Indeed, Bernhard...

Perhaps I am a bit more inclined to be "non-confrontational", but there will always be some very difficult questions regarding both elections. I hesitate to speak of it...I don't want to make enemy's.

I do in fact, put a lot in the asseveration that the republicans determined they would NOT be beaten. I watched as they intimidated voting patrons in simple NON- PROSECUTABLE ways at my local polls...pushing to the point of doubt, but never over the edge...BUT it was certainly not all of them, of course...They in general, "talked it up", a bit like chatter in the game of baseball...never stopping if persons were in the area of hearing...

They were also organized to ASSURE that no registered republican failed to vote, using auto transport to get them to the polls, when they failed to show up...There were several or more at each polling place...there were one or two Democrats....

They were also very forward in their entire approach to election day...planning and advertising like the world was going to end......

NONE of this suggests they did anything wrong...PERIOD!; I believe they had just decided and organized to win at (almost) ANY cost or effort...Perhaps they then, are the strong...and perhaps they deserve the power they now hold. I do know that as I watched and spoke with both party members, I was amazed at the relative nonchalance displayed by the Democrats...(Of course I speak in General, and of the ones I saw from local and national sources....) compared with the determination of the Republicans....

As to the aftermath of the count...who knows the hows and whys?  It is likely we will NOT know...at any time....

I still believe that the last election was lost as the candidate was totally unsuited as a candidate, as well as for the office he was running for in the FIRST place...!

And even now, attendance at sites like moveon.org..etc..etc...STILL shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the NEW politics, and the..(most important...) REAL issues we all face....I am going to leave moveon for that very reason...They don't have a clue as to how to beat the republicans....

Regards, to others,    John

[BoliverAllmon]

the dems had most of Hollywood on their side. Both sides were doing whatever it took to win.

[c18cont]

No, I disagree,

I was working with the dems, and I promise at least for my observations, what I say is correct locally, and likely is at least part of the equation nationally...Then reps worked harder...

I SAW the republicans work harder than almost ALL my associates...I was with dems a lot, and reps many times...

John

[BoliverAllmon]

No, I disagree,

I was working with the dems, and I promise at least for my observations, what I say is correct locally, and likely is at least part of the equation nationally...Then reps worked harder...

I SAW the republicans work harder than almost ALL my associates...I was with dems a lot, and reps many times...

John

I am not saying who was working harder, just that the dems worked hard also.

[i_m_robot]

sigh

oh well

 

If libertarians can answer so can I (I am the mother of all libertarians).

Very few people voted for Bush. Both elections were rigged. The real interesting question is : “How did he get away with it?”.

they have actually found proof of this happening in ohio

also they were a large number of incident where lower class democrats were to tricked into thinking they were voting early when they actually werent voting at all - since they didnt understand the system and people were being urged to vote early they got dooped

self believes that perhaps the most obvious reason for something like this happening are the ones stated above

who trusts karry and why change president unnecessarily in the middle a war

some may go as far as to say oil companies did it in exchange for iraq (its a conspiracy theorists dream)

Then reps worked harder...

they only appeared to work harder because there was more money involved in the things they did (selfs thought)

[c18cont]

Well, if I may,

Let me add the oft forgotten point; If you do not take part, and do not believe in finding out all you can about the issues and candidates..(which is, I know hard and time consuming...) you simply are not a wise and prepared voter...or:

Put another way, how many simply vote on the "spur of the moment" or with only a hint or a suggestion from an associate, without having any real cynosure of the total picture of what you are doing...Such is not to be expected in an advanced society, after all...and leaves us all open to at least some failure in government.

Democracy is no sure answer, and is often abused. But it is still the best hope for freedom and success in life for many....You must Know enough to vote wisely...

John

[thracozaag]

Well, if I may,

Let me add the oft forgotten point; If you do not take part, and do not believe in finding out all you can about the issues and candidates..(which is, I know hard and time consuming...) you simply are not a wise and prepared voter...or:

Put another way, how many simply vote on the "spur of the moment" or with only a hint or a suggestion from an associate, without having any real cynosure of the total picture of what you are doing...Such is not to be expected in an advanced society, after all...and leaves us all open to at least some failure in government.

Democracy is no sure answer, and is often abused. But it is still the best hope for freedom and success in life for many....You must Know enough to vote wisely...

John

  Very well stated.

koji

[i_m_robot]

Well, if I may,

Let me add the oft forgotten point; If you do not take part, and do not believe in finding out all you can about the issues and candidates..(which is, I know hard and time consuming...) you simply are not a wise and prepared voter...or:

Put another way, how many simply vote on the "spur of the moment" or with only a hint or a suggestion from an associate, without having any real cynosure of the total picture of what you are doing...Such is not to be expected in an advanced society, after all...and leaves us all open to at least some failure in government.

Democracy is no sure answer, and is often abused. But it is still the best hope for freedom and success in life for many....You must Know enough to vote wisely...

John

doesnt mean that deception is okay

because democracy is useless without honesty

kind of makes you wonder how many presidents the people have actually chosen

[prometheus]

When a controlled election system was proposed americans rejected it with "What! We don't want another Hitler system.", or something along those lines.

This why the whole election system isn't centrally organised and controlled. But it's run by the parties themselves. Very strange indeed. I think OSCE commented on this while observing the elections. But americans are strange people indeed. They view democratic elections as undemocratic. Now they have all these strange election laws in each state. Voters aren't registered. Voting offices are run by bias party members, not by independent people.

I don't think we will see democratic elections in the US for another 200 years, if the US still exists.

[musik_man]

I find the conspiracy mongering in this thread kinda depressing.

"Bush must have stolen the election... cause he looks like a monkey... and is as bad as Hitler...  and it's not like he was polling ahead of Kerry for the months leading up to the election..."

The whole premise of this thread shows someone who has a very shallow understanding of Republicans and conservative ideas.  I voted for Bush cause I agree with him.  More than half the country believes what Bush does, and it isn't because some oil company is lying and manipulating us all.  Unless you can come to terms with the fact that conservatism is very popular in America, and that we're not a bunch of knuckle-dragging, Bible-thumping Gay-bashers who are kept in ignorance by evil corporations, you'll continue to be confused by Bush's success, and think he steals election after election.

[xvimbi]

More than half the country believes what Bush does, and it isn't because some oil company is lying and manipulating us all.  Unless you can come to terms with the fact that conservatism is very popular in America, and that we're not a bunch of knuckle-dragging, Bible-thumping Gay-bashers who are kept in ignorance by evil corporations, you'll continue to be confused by Bush's success, and think he steals election after election.

Yes, about half of the country supports Bush, but the other half doesn't. Yet, this administration is acting as if the entire country, and God, is behind it. This is clearly not the case, so these guys are in fact misrepresenting what the American public really believes, and conservatism as represented by this administration is actually NOT that popular in America.

Democracy is when decisions taken by an administration reflect the entire population. Democracy is not to have democratic elections and then act in a totalitarian way. And an administration shouldn't try to change the legal system in order to strengthen its power, which diminished democracy even further (the democrats have also been guilty of this).

[Nightscape]

I find the conspiracy mongering in this thread kinda depressing.

"Bush must have stolen the election... cause he looks like a monkey... and is as bad as Hitler...  and it's not like he was polling ahead of Kerry for the months leading up to the election..."

The whole premise of this thread shows someone who has a very shallow understanding of Republicans and conservative ideas.  I voted for Bush cause I agree with him.  More than half the country believes what Bush does, and it isn't because some oil company is lying and manipulating us all.  Unless you can come to terms with the fact that conservatism is very popular in America, and that we're not a bunch of knuckle-dragging, Bible-thumping Gay-bashers who are kept in ignorance by evil corporations, you'll continue to be confused by Bush's success, and think he steals election after election.

I agree with you in that I find myself having trouble believing all the conspiracy stuff.

However, I think it would be beneficial if you might explain what conservative ideas are?  I know that might sound pedantic, but if we had a clear understanding of what the official stance of the Republican party is on key issues (as opposed to generalizations) we might be better able to have a meaningful discussion.

[i_m_robot]

I find the conspiracy mongering in this thread kinda depressing.

its just fun poking on selfs part

dont take it too serious

The whole premise of this thread shows someone who has a very shallow understanding of Republicans and conservative ideas.  I voted for Bush cause I agree with him.  More than half the country believes what Bush does, and it isn't because some oil company is lying and manipulating us all.  Unless you can come to terms with the fact that conservatism is very popular in America, and that we're not a bunch of knuckle-dragging, Bible-thumping Gay-bashers who are kept in ignorance by evil corporations, you'll continue to be confused by Bush's success, and think he steals election after election.

the idea of asking why is to understand (generally assumed to be from lack of knowledge)

and yet few republicans have responded with an answer

by your use of "you" self believes this is directed at self

self has no real assumptions or beliefs about conservatives

though the word conservative does bring up a picture of turtle neck wearing happy families sitting by fire places

it is sheer ignorance to assume anyone actually meets this archetype

all self has gotten in response however is

"I liked his policies", "Karry wasnt as strong a candidate"

these are short answers but nothing really indepth

so self will make the question less vague

What did you (republicans) personally like about bush the made you vote for him?

Ex: His policies and what you thought of them

his character compared to other candidates

hell even if his hair looked better

dis moi sil vous plait

and go in depth

[c18cont]

I do believe,

A few here have indeed hit the so called "nail on the head" in a sense.....In fact, many republican principles have been embraced by the Democrats, and of course, Democratic Party ideas have in some cases, been picked up by the Republicans....Which indeed, is which Can you still tell? (Don't give me that tired old saw about "liberal"; Alone the term means nothing, as it is rare to encounter a true liberal today, in my opinion...)

No, I don't think the difference has much to do with the country going "conservative" as a whole; it seems more a result of reaction to some new and modern specifics of life, that are often hard to categorize....from abortion to using cell 'phones while driving...In fact old friends of mine are changing party hopes at times...

The very RAPID change technology forces on us all, requires effort, and many "back off" as it seems to move to new ideas far too fast....THAT is the new conservatism; and note that again, some principles are in a state of flux, actually being "crossover" principles between the two ideology's...(Its not that they refuse the Technology, they refuse the thinking required..and the liberal and moderate principles...examples: NAFTA...CAFTA...and WHAT to do about the new super-powerhouse, CHINA....)...

To suggest that conservatives really stand for the principles of revolutionary America, as suggested by some commentators, is to miss completely the point of conservatism IN IT'S NEW FORM...A Reaction to moderate and liberal principles was long ago well accepted by a majority of Americans Including conservatives....It is now refused in an attempt to SLOW DOWN what some see as the give-away of America and American principles....to a world more closely tied together than ever before...

The new conservatism is very real, and I fear the Democrats and Moderates simply wrote it off as useless...Yet it becomes increasingly apparent that a bit more than hallf the people in this country DO want to see America once again ascendant...and perhaps even holding the world to our demense...Whether it is "right" or even "possible" awaits the passing of time....

John

[i_m_robot]

its just fun poking on selfs part

dont take it too serious

the idea of asking why is to understand (generally assumed to be from lack of knowledge)

and yet few republicans have responded with an answer

by your use of "you" self believes this is directed at self

self has no real assumptions or beliefs about conservatives

though the word conservative does bring up a picture of turtle neck wearing happy families sitting by fire places

it is sheer ignorance to assume anyone actually meets this archetype

all self has gotten in response however is

"I liked his policies", "Karry wasnt as strong a candidate"

these are short answers but nothing really indepth

so self will make the question less vague

What did you (republicans) personally like about bush the made you vote for him?

Ex: His policies and what you thought of them

his character compared to other candidates

hell even if his hair looked better

dis moi sil vous plait

and go in depth

 

[c18cont]

O.K. Republicans, and Neocons, or Repcons,

we are waiting.....John

[moose_opus_28]

I voted for Bush because he sees most things my way.  Examples:

His foreign policy.  I doubt an Al Gore or a John Kerry would have gone into Afghanistan, must less Iraq.  I don't mean to turn the topic in that direction, but I think both were good decisions.  I also support Bush's efforts to fix Social Security, even though nothing will likely come of it, and we'll have a horrible fiscal problem that me and my kids will have to deal with in 20-30 years.  I'm a conservative when it comes to cutting taxes, getting rid of or reforming broken government programs, and fiscal responsibility in general.

The only major Bush thing that I thought was really stupid was No Child Left Behind.

[yamagal]

I chose Bush because I didn't think it was wise to change presidents in the middle of war and I hated Kerry's ideas.

That about sums it up for me too.  Also, Bush has it all over Kerry wrt leadership experience (professional and political).   That said, I do not agree with all of Bush's positions.  But I do feel the WOT has been a deterrent to further attacks on our shores.