Ear Training class

[seskanda]

     
 
I'm thinking of taking an ear training class at my town's community college, but prefer to learn to train my ears by myself. The syllabus indicates that the instructor will use the 'fixed-do' method, which i hear is an obsolete and bad way, and that 'movable-do'  is much better, right? Also, apparently half the class is devoted sightsinging. As a composer, does one really need this skill? I understand that sightsinging is intended primarily for singers/vocalists.

As for training my ear, I know there are scores of programs out there; I currently use EarMaster Pro 4, which is a pretty decent program, but the rhythm exercises are awkward (I have to bang on my spacebar all the time). It seems a tad too slow and gradual for me, and the interface is cluttered and confusing at times. I know of only two other better programs on the market: Practica Musica and Auralia, both are VERY expensive! Yet, i've been hearing raving reviews for there comprehensiveness and clarity. Anybody know if they're really worth all the hype?

I guess if i wanna go to the university i'll be needing an AA (associate's degree), and since that class is required for it, i might as well take it. Maybe ear training and sightsinging are integrated together as a whole, or something, i'll have to chat with the instructor about all this. I believe that as a composer i really should be able to dictate music that i hear inside my head. Is transcribing music the best way to train your ear? If so, what would be some stuff that'll greatly help me in this regard?

P.S: Sorry about that double post!

[pianonut]

some classes are ineffective and you just end up frustrated.  a tape is put on and you keep getting the minor 6th's wrong.  then you finally figure out that if you feel really confused, it's a minor sixth.  chords get me, still, unless they are really basic.

to me, practicing alone where you can sing the pitches (often not allowed to in class), and take AS MUCH TIME AS YOU WANT.  then you don't feel like this tremendous pressure of getting the right answer to prove you are the musician you say you are.  some intervals and chords are tricky at first. 

there's another thread - i'll try to find it...where there's a test i found for pitch recognition on line.  it's really great - and i've been doing it myself to refresh.

it's www.teoria.com    click on exercises

am interested to hear what others would suggest in terms of learning to transcribe music.  i tried doing this with the 'starbucks' theme.  it took recording it and replaying it a few times.  then, i added my own stuff.  people like it when you can play popular stuff.

[c18cont]

!...,

Now I have a headache..... (I havn't done this for years....)

John

[Appenato]

ear training and sight-singing... haha.. worse class that all music majors despise. >_~

for ear training in my classes, we sometimes have online homework where we have examples to listen to and then write it down (be it intervals, chord progressions, or melodies). so in that sense, transcribing is a good way to train the ear, for what we're doing. you have to listen intervalically... and then comes the sight singing which helps in hearing those pitches aloud. (we use the moveable "do"... it'd be much harder i think to have a fixed "do"!) sight singing... blah... heheh. mornings before class those days, my friends and i sit and practice in the hall. it's real fun when canons are sung. it sounds awesome.

which reminds me that i should pull out my book and brush up on singing... 

good luck with whatever way you go, seskanda.

[c18cont]

Hi Pianonut...,

I don't use little slashes or lines...never have....I use a dot only...and then go back and put in the rhythmic element...BUT..it is more to remember, and if longer and  with changing rhythm, it will have to be heard several times, and thats not possible if you grab your pencil on a quick urge to get a sketch of something you are listening to... so:

If I see that coming, I do try to get in reminders of the rhythm with flags just stuck above the note...and sometimes put in a reminder of the more "isolated" parts of rhythm...like if it has a few halfs scattered amoung lots of eights and quarters....or for rests...

However,..I got better pretty quickly on values by memory, just from doing it, and have done it all my life, and usually can amaze the non-musician with it and it helped me to the point that I can sketch out a fairly complex melody and  harmony well enough to make up a reasonable near-correct copy...if the comp is relativly SIMPLE...Now if it is long and complex....no way without multiple listenings....

John

[c18cont]

You know, Friends,

I did forget something some musicians that I know use...but I like doing the copy so I don't....

It is called Transcribe!...Find it at a site called seventhstring.....

It is a program for purchase...sorry I don't have the complete address, but it will show up with seventhstring..

Regards,   John

[pianonut]

thanks!  will look it up.  and thank you for describing the way you take 'shorthand.'  i suppose with computer aided transcribing, doing everything from scratch is obsolete.  but, kinda nice to have if you are away from the computer and hear something you really like.

[abell88]

I agree that movable "do" is a lot easier in some respects (it's what I'm used to)...but a few years ago I was at music camp and we were learning 5 movements of the Bach B minor Mass in 6 days. Movable do is pretty useless when you are modulating/transitioning through the keys as fast as Bach did...the francophones there (this was in Quebec, the French-speaking province of Canada) had mostly trained with fixed do, and some of them were pretty amazing in their sight-singing. I think fixed do would also be more useful for modern works.

And IMO sight-singing is a valuable skill for any musician, especially for a composer...(how else are you going to perform your fellow students' works?)

[seskanda]

Oh, I forgot to mention the class will use "Ear Training: A Techinique for Listening" by Bruce Benward et al. and "Sightsinging Complete" by Bruce Benward et al. Anybody used these books before, are they any good? Is anybody gonna comment on ear training software, particularly compare/contrast Practica Musica and Auralia? Some more info about transcribing would be great, I'll check out this Transcribe! program, soon. Also, fall semester starts in under 3 weeks!! It be great if more people would share their experiences with ear training, the pros and cons moveable vs. fixed-do, and if solfege is even an efficient way to train one's ear.

And IMO sight-singing is a valuable skill for any musician, especially for a composer...(how else are you going to perform your fellow students' works?)

I don't follow you here. How or when is a composer (or any other musician, for that matter) ever gonna need to perform sight-singing, unless they happen to write a song  or some kinda vocal work. Perhaps a piece for choir, too, though, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[abell88]

I don't follow you here. How or when is a composer (or any other musician, for that matter) ever gonna need to perform sight-singing, unless they happen to write a song  or some kinda vocal work. Perhaps a piece for choir, too, though, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Well...imho you shouldn't limit yourself by thinking you'll never write a choral piece or sing in a choir...the more skills you have the better. Also, if someone puts a piece of music in front of you, with no instrument around, if you can sight-sing you can at least make out the melody -- and it's probably easier to do it this way (audibly), at least at first,  than just trying to hear it all in your head.  I have found sight-singing and inner-hearing very interrelated, so that if I hear a piece in my mind I can notate it fairly easily because of all the ear-training I have done.  Works best for diatonic music, of course.

[seskanda]

Well...imho you shouldn't limit yourself by thinking you'll never write a choral piece or sing in a choir...the more skills you have the better. Also, if someone puts a piece of music in front of you, with no instrument around, if you can sight-sing you can at least make out the melody -- and it's probably easier to do it this way (audibly), at least at first,  than just trying to hear it all in your head.  I have found sight-singing and inner-hearing very interrelated, so that if I hear a piece in my mind I can notate it fairly easily because of all the ear-training I have done.  Works best for diatonic music, of course.

Ok, i see your point. BTW, just what type of  ear training have you done? I bet it's typical solfege, right? On another note, has anyone tried the ear training method by Bruce ARNOLD? I understand his approach is totally different in that it stresses identifing (naming) pitches you hear with reference to a "key center" that you perceive when you listen to a short musical phrase, a motif or a cadence, etc. Technically called "Contextual Ear Training" if you will. Thereby, he completely trumps intervallic/solfege ear training and even suggests that it is detrimental to a musician like a bad habit that just won't leave.The main gripe is his method is VERY difficult, probably more so than solfege, but the rewards are supposedly well worth it and far more fruitful than what solfege has to offer.

[abell88]

BTW, just what type of  ear training have you done? I bet it's typical solfege, right?

Yes, I was first exposed to solfege in a vocal class in high school, and I've done lots of sight-singing (as I said, to me they're interrelated skills) in choirs and church. Also, for my conservatory exams I had to learn to identify intervals and chords by ear, and do melody playback (my nemesis, as I could never remember the melody long enough to play it back -- even worse when it was 2-part harmony).

I don't quite understand the difference between focusing on a "key centre" and using movable doh solfege -- do you know any more about it?