Simon Barere

[stevie]

was he a musician? or just a showman?

one thing is for sure, he had incredible fingers.

[da jake]

He made me appreciate Islamey.

Plus, he died in during the Grieg Concerto. What a legend. 

[prometheus]

Aren't most concert piananists also showmen?

He is famous for playing very fast and dying on stage like Stevie said. Other than this personally I do not find him interesting.

[sevencircles]

I find him an underrated pianist. He could slow great as well.

He played with the stiffest action you can imagine and yet so fast that the notes flow like water.

[thalbergmad]

Brilliant Islamey and DonJuan.

Murdered some Chopin Mazurkas.

Brilliant fingers but perhaps was lacking in the soul department.

[stevie]

he was a serial rapist with a heart, he would play so fast but always with passion.

of course, his style is less dramatic than cziffra and horowitz, who would use their speed sparingly.

barere would unleash speed somewhat randomly, sometimes it detracts a little from the musical side of things, but it is always exciting.

the greatest moments are when his techique and speed are used to perfection in certain pieces, his liszt sonata has some INCREDIBLE moments few can equal.

[sevencircles]

He had a much larger repertoire then most people think.

He could play Godowskis hardest works for instance

Many people called him the fastest "tastefull" pianist they ever heard. Among those people are Horowitz and Rachmaninov.

[stevie]

who is faster than him?

[arensky]

Extraordinary Islamey and Scriabin d# minor Etude, as well as Blumenfeld Etude for the Left Hand. An extraordinary pianist, who could phrase beautifully, but was hampered by his chronic obsession with speed. Evidently he was an alcoholic, I can sort of hear that in the playing, it frequently goes out of focus in bursts of speed. Not centered, but incredible.

He and Horowitz ( I believe they were friends as young students, I think Barere studied with Blumenfeld also)both made a specialy of the Schumann Tocatta; Horowitz asked Barere, "Why do you play it so fast" Barere answered "I can play it even faster!" No one has probably ever played faster, although Lang Lang tries (and shouldn't).

[musicsdarkangel]

dammit arensky i was going to give that quote

 

oh well hehe.

Anyway, after Horowitz states that in this Dubal book I'm reading, he proceeds to mention Barere being kind of immature and an idiot.

He liked Barere though, just not his lack of musicality.

[sevencircles]

I don´t think that Horowitz thought Barere was an idiot!

He said that Barere played the etude for the left hand like a miracle for instance.

In musical as well as technical aspects!

[musicsdarkangel]

I don´t think that Horowitz thought Barere was an idiot!

He said that Barere played the etude for the left hand like a miracle for instance.

In musical as well as technical aspects!

Sorry, I miss interpreted that.

What I mean, was Horowitz did say "Barere can be an idiot.  He is a fool." to Dubal, but he meant in almost in a playful sense, and he says such things about people he likes at times.

He got along with Barere, he just thought him foolish.

[stevie]

i would rather have a conversation with barere than horowitz, he sounds like a hilarious guy!

[musicsdarkangel]

i would rather have a conversation with barere than horowitz, he sounds like a hilarious guy!

If you want to have a conversation with Horowitz, read this Dubal book.  It's not really a biography, but it is basically a conversation with Horowitz half of the time.

[bernhard]

If you want to have a conversation with Horowitz, read this Dubal book.  It's not really a biography, but it is basically a conversation with Horowitz half of the time.

I have just got this book at a sale for a ridiculous price, and so far it has been highly entertaining.

However, in one of the threads (I’ve been looking for it – if I find it I will come back and post the link) someone – I think it was Marik, but I may be wrong – was really critical of the book, saying that Dubal got it all wrong and that the book amounted to a “betrayal” of Horowitz, and that since its publication Dubal had become persona non grata with the family. Does anyone remember that?

Was it you Marik? If you are reading, I would be interested in more details, now that I am reading it.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[chromatickler]

No one has probably ever played faster, although Lang Lang tries (and shouldn't).

believe me, if anyone can it's lang lang

[sevencircles]

Barere played the Tocatta with the stiffest action you can imagine. Can Lang Lang play that fast with so heavy keys?

[thierry13]

Does anyone have free Barere records I could listen to? He seems like quite interesting 

[sevencircles]

Do a search on Tower Records or cdnow for clips!

[thalbergmad]

check out www.aprrecordings.co.uk for a lot of Barere.

Sorry its not free.

[brewtality]

check out www.aprrecordings.co.uk for a lot of Barere.

Sorry its not free.

far from it. Honestly these British labels are sending me broke. 20 quid is a lot of money to fork out for 2 cds! If you want Barere you're better off buying from other labels.

[stevie]

first listen to this - a standard slow interpretation-
https://knar.free.fr/sdc/barriztah/Impromptu.%20No.1%20-%20DG.mp3

now we give this piece to barere-
https://knar.free.fr/sdc/barriztah/Impromptu%20No.1%20-%20Barere.mp3

barere is much more faithful to chopin's spirit

[m]

However, in one of the threads (I’ve been looking for it – if I find it I will come back and post the link) someone – I think it was Marik, but I may be wrong – was really critical of the book, saying that Dubal got it all wrong and that the book amounted to a “betrayal” of Horowitz, and that since its publication Dubal had become persona non grata with the family. Does anyone remember that?

Was it you Marik? If you are reading, I would be interested in more details, now that I am reading it.

Yes, Bernhard, that was me and here is the link:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,5470.0.html

I met Mr. Dubal a few times and read a few of his books. He always stroke me as a highly opinionated, self-centered, full of nonsenses, pretentious, and unethical individuum. Besides, I am not sure if he proof-reads and fact checks what he publishes in his books. I always find tons of mistakes in his books--from listing incorrect names to actual facts confusion and distortion.
His opinions in radio broadcasts series are mostly ridiculous. And all of these is not only my opinion. Many famous musicians share it and think and talk about Mr. Dubal the same.

[m]

However, in one of the threads (I’ve been looking for it – if I find it I will come back and post the link) someone – I think it was Marik, but I may be wrong – was really critical of the book, saying that Dubal got it all wrong and that the book amounted to a “betrayal” of Horowitz, and that since its publication Dubal had become persona non grata with the family. Does anyone remember that?

Was it you Marik? If you are reading, I would be interested in more details, now that I am reading it.

Yes, Bernhard, that was me and here is the link:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,5470.0.html

I met Mr. Dubal a few times and read a few of his books. He always stroke me as a highly opinionated, self-centered, full of nonsenses, pretentious, and unethical individuum. Besides, I am not sure if he proof-reads and fact checks what he publishes in his books. I always find tons of mistakes in his books--from listing incorrect names to actual facts confusion and distortion.
His opinions in radio broadcasts series are mostly ridiculous, as well.
This is not only my opinion. Many famous musicians share it and think and talk about Mr. Dubal persona the same.

[bernhard]

Thanks for the link, Marik.

Yes, I am halfway through the book, and although I am finding it enjoyable (Dubal writes easily - it is the kind of book good for long airplane flights), I am also feeling somewhat uneasy about the way, for instance, in which he seems to be lecturing Horowitz on music and implying that somehow he had a large influence in Horowitz choice of repertory (e.g. according to him, it was due to his suggestion that Horowitz played Etincelles as an encore - which again may well be true).

Yes, he many times describes Horowitz as a childlike character, but then many old people do behave in a childlike manner, and Horowitz was quite old when they first met. But I agree with you that there is something venomous in the way Dubal talks about several of the characters in the book.

But perhaps, the most dissatisfying aspect of this book is how superficial it actually is, more like a collection of anedoctes (many of which have already been told to death).

I cannot help but compare it to Jopseph Horowitz's "Conversations with Arrau" (Dover) which is far more satisfying, perhaps because J. H. (unlike Dubal) fades in obscurity and leaves Arrau do all the talking.

(I have not read the Schoenberg book on Horowitz, but now I am curious - Next on the list is Richter's conversations with Bruno Monsaingeon - I saw the video and was mightly impressed).

Best wishes,
Benrhard.

[thracozaag]

His opinions in radio broadcasts series are mostly ridiculous, as well.

  Not all the time

koji

[stevie]

yes, dubal is a fan of koji attwood's playing

as indeed am i, loved those scriabin preludes on that video

[mephisto]

(I have not read the Schoenberg book on Horowitz, but now I am curious - Next on the list is Richter's conversations with Bruno Monsaingeon - I saw the video and was mightly impressed).

Best wishes,
Benrhard.

Sorry to be picky and I may even be mistaken but if you are talking about Harold. Than there shouldn`t be and "e". Only Schonberg.

-The Mephisto

[m]

  Not all the time

koji

Sure, I agree. In fact, some of the articles in Dubal's The Art of the Piano are written very well and I enjoy reading them. But many reveal complete ignorance and are quite annoying, if not shocking.

[thracozaag]

Sure, I agree. In fact, some of the articles in Dubal's The Art of the Piano are written very well and I enjoy reading them. But many reveal complete ignorance and are quite annoying, if not shocking.

 
  Francis Romano and I managed to change his opinion about Cziffra, and the latest version of Art of the Piano reflects that.

koji

[musicsdarkangel]

Actually, Dubal did seem to boast a bit in the book.

It seemed like there wasn't one piece of history that Dubal didn't know in the book.


Of course, he could just have an amazing knowledge on music, but Horowitz always compliments him in the book on his knowledge.

[stevie]

 
  Francis Romano and I managed to change his opinion about Cziffra, and the latest version of Art of the Piano reflects that.

koji

and its about time, too bad you cant dig up schonberg and change his opinion too.

i also have to say that dubal's accent is INSANE, where the hell is he from?
he has a creepy voice.

[bernhard]

Actually, Dubal did seem to boast a bit in the book.

It seemed like there wasn't one piece of history that Dubal didn't know in the book.


Of course, he could just have an amazing knowledge on music, but Horowitz always compliments him in the book on his knowledge.

Yes, the problem is that Dubal wrote the book, so we never know how many words he actually attributed to Horowitz.

[ramseytheii]

Yes, the problem is that Dubal wrote the book, so we never know how many words he actually attributed to Horowitz.

About the Evenings with Horowitz book, it is an almost hilarious David Dubal ego trip.  My favorite part is the chapter entitled, "Horowitz and I Dine Alone."  Or perhaps the incredibly pretentious photo of David Dubal all clad in mourning black, at the Toscanini tomb.   Or Dubal's prominent place in his own INDEX!   And this, "At this point, Horowitz picked up my Reflections from the Keyboard, which was always near him at the table..."
Often times Dubal will 'quote' Horowitz complementing Dubal, "Howoritz said, 'You know everything.  That's why I need you here.'"
Still the book is entertaining, I must confess.  But if I were asked to recommend a book on Horowitz, I would rather say Dubal's compliation of essays after H.'s death, entitled, "Remembering Horowitz."  Many pianists - I think almost 150? - contributed short essays remembering him, such as Claude Frank, Maurizio Pollini, Lazar Berman, John Perry, Shura Cherkassky, and many many others.  Also there is a CD of excerpts of conversation between Dubal and Horowitz.  There it is Horowitz who makes Dubal seem like a ridiculous child.  Dubal asks something along the lines of, "Maestro, do you believe that the problem with young piano students is that they don't think?" and Horowitz along the lines of, "Everybody thinks, everybody has a brain.  Why would you think that was the problem?"

Walter Ramsey

[demented cow]

back to the actual subject of this thread (Barere): I've heard more than 3 cds worth of his playing, and here is my assessment of his good and bad points:
SOME BAD POINTS
-he often slows down noticeably from his gazelle-on-steroids tempos when the piece gets technically harder (e.g. octave bit in coda of Chopin 4th ballade; thirds passages in Schumann toccata and in Don Juan Fantasy). Despite what piano teachers tell us, I think it's ok to slow down when the going gets hard if the result is a musically justifiable satisfactory rubato effect or is not noticeable, but he doesn't always manage to conceal the slow-down in this way.
-inaccurate octaves (maybe he had small hands; I would be curious to see what he does with his LIszt Funerailles, has anybody heard it?)
-I think some of his encore pieces (notably his Weber perpetual motion sonata movement) furnish us with paradigm cases of some dude trying to play as fast as possible without bothering to be musical.

SOME GOOD POINTS
His fast pasages sometimes send shivers up my spine in a way that the same passages played by people with an infallible technique like Argerich or Hamelin do not. I think part of this may have a fairly boring explanation: he is plays at the maximum tempo he can (almost) manage, and gets some wrong notes in there. (Horowitz said he deliberately played wrong notes in certain passages. This could be just an excuse for unintended mistakes, but I agree that mistakes can help, when used carefully.) This hair-raising quality is part of what helps him to make some of his interpretations sound so 'demonic' (sorry to use this clichéed term, but I can't find a better word). Listen to say Liszt sonata or his Chopin 1st and 4th ballades. Each of these recordings have brought tears to my eyes at least once, which doesn't often happen. I still find the buildup in the 4th ballade overwhelming (there is some grasp of structure in there as well as brute technique; this is not the only way to play this piece -I like Zimmermann just as much- but it's worth checking this version out). The end of the coda to the 1st ballade on APR sounds ferocious, like a musical depiction of the destruction of the WTC.
It's a pity the sound quality of the recordings was so bad, but from what I can hear he had a beautiful singing tone (e.g. Blumenfeld left hand study).
And if he's meant to be a showman, then he shouldn't be playing things like Beethoven op 90 & op 110, Godowsky Renaissance and the Chromatic Fantasy.

OVERALL ASSESSMENT   
Looking on the net, opinions of him range from 'superficial and messy speed demon' to 'one of the top five in the 20th century', but surely he's somewhere in between. His Blumenfeld Etude was technically and musically great (but Hamelin's is even better), his Liszt sonata is alternately spine-chilling and beautiful (but his octaves let him down, so that he can't match Argerich's hysterical recitative section and he even fluffs the passage that apr put on the album cover), his Schumann toccata is awesome (but Horowitz and even Pogorelich were better musically). His volume 3 apr cd (Liszt sonata etc.) is one of my favorite live cd's, but looking at his weak points, you can see why people might have been justified in at least contemplating leaving him out of the Phillips Great Pianists series.

[sevencircles]

inaccurate octaves (maybe he had small hands; I would be curious to see what he does with his LIszt Funerailles, has anybody heard it?)

He plays the octaves on Schumann Toccata so fast it´s almost impossible to replicate him on a stiff action piano! (He actually played on a piano with the stiffest keys you can imagine.)

His octaves isn´t as good as his scales that´s for sure though!

Barere would be among the best of the best if he didn´t drink as much I am sure about that!

[m]

Barere would be among the best of the best if he didn´t drink as much I am sure about that!

In fact, I think he drank because he knew he'd never be the best among the best.

Sportsmen (however good they are) will never get to the rank of great musicians.

[sevencircles]

Why do you think he drank for this reason?

Do you think Hofmann started drinking for the same reasons?

[m]

Do you think Hofmann started drinking for the same reasons?

No. I think Hoffamann drank because he got tired of being the best among the bests.

In any case my point was that drinking is not an exuse.

[practicingnow]

Dubal is not a fact-checker, and can sometimes be erroneous, but he's not a liar either...
There can be no question that Dubal DID know Horowitz, and that Horowitz did think extremely highly of Dubal, and I don't doubt that Dubal ( knowing his personality ) DID persuade Horowitz from time to time on certain musical things...
Personally I always find his books and radio show entertaining, ego and all.  In fact, the ego thing kind of makes it more entertaining in a way - I've turned some friends onto his radio show, and they like it too.  I think his pompous routine is a riot.  He does what he does, and nobody does it better, I think.

[bernhard]

Dubal is not a fact-checker, and can sometimes be erroneous, but he's not a liar either...
There can be no question that Dubal DID know Horowitz, and that Horowitz did think extremely highly of Dubal, and I don't doubt that Dubal ( knowing his personality ) DID persuade Horowitz from time to time on certain musical things...
Personally I always find his books and radio show entertaining, ego and all.  In fact, the ego thing kind of makes it more entertaining in a way - I've turned some friends onto his radio show, and they like it too.  I think his pompous routine is a riot.  He does what he does, and nobody does it better, I think.

I have now finished reading Dubal's book on Horowitz, and on reflection I might have been too harsh on him (I still prefer the style of Joseph Horowitz's book on Arrau, though, where most of the talking os done by Arrau).

It was quite sad how it all ended, and I am sure Horowitz was not an easy person to relate too. I felt quite a bit of sympathy for Dubal. It reminded me of the translation for the sanscrit word "Guru" (which Horowitz clearly was): a lantern. Not the ligth itself, but something that keeps the light. And there is another aspect of this translation. If you are too far form the lantern you are in the dark. The closer you get, the more in the light you are. But there is a point in which, if you get any closer, you fall pn the shadow of the lantern itself, and if you get real close, you may get burned. So I guess Dubal got burned.

By the way, the book was very well written, (the kind that you cannot put down), with some quite moving and poignant parts, and I would certainly recommend it, purely on the enjoyment level .

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[zongora]

Hi,

I used to attend most concerts of Simon Barere at Carnegie Hall in New York.

I thought that some of you might enjoy seeing a few programs of his from way back when.  The first one is from the 1947 season and he was much heavier than in the later ones.  From what I recall he looked just like that, and I was surprised to see him as in the next photo. I left a few whole pages as I thought that some advertisements were interesting.

His playing was superb. When he played Chopin’s Black Key Etude, the audience made him play it a second time.  If my memory serves me correctly the same thing happened with the Blumenfield Etude. When he performed the Don Juan Fantasy, the audience was half standing with excitement to see his fingers. The Weber Perpetuum Mobile was also unbelievable as was the Liszt  F minor Etude and B minor Sonate.

As you all know, he died on the stage of Carnegie Hall April 2,1951 while performing the Grieg Concerto (Eugene Ormandy conducting). He was 55 years old. He was born in Odessa in 1896. He made his first appearance in New York in Carnegie Hall on Nov 9, 1936. Alexander Glazounov said “Barere is Franz liszt in one hand and Anton Rubinstein in the other”. He was celebrated chiefly for his technical prowess.

Thank you for reading my post.

Zongora

[arensky]

Enzio Pinza was a fabulous singer, but his taste in Vodka? FFHHEEEWW! Schenley Vodka is on a par with batterry acid. 

Seriously zongora, thank you, this is wonderful! You obviously were a devotee of Barere, did you hear other pianists of the time, Kappel, Lipatti, Rubinstein, Horowitz, Hoffman, Rosenthal? I'll bet you did; inquiring mind and others would like to know!   

[bernhard]

Enzio Pinza was a fabulous singer, but his taste in Vodka? FFHHEEEWW! Schenley Vodka is on a par with batterry acid. 

Seriously zongora, thank you, this is wonderful! You obviously were a devotee of Barere, did you hear other pianists of the time, Kappel, Lipatti, Rubinstein, Horowitz, Hoffman, Rosenthal? I'll bet you did; inquiring mind and others would like to know!   

And to think I was just about to go to the shops to get myself a bottle of Schenley Vodka to try…

Yes., indeed, Zongora, thank you very much for your post and reminiscences. As one who has only heard most of this “golden age” pianists on CD, it is truly interesting (and enlightening) to hear about their performance live. Thank you.
 
And I second Arensky, do continue telling us about it!

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[stevie]

  thats awesome!!!

do tell more about your experiences seeing barere

what did he look like when he played? his technique, and his facial expressions?

there were some people who hadnt seen him l;ive, and had heard his records, that thought they were sped up, and thought the left-hand etude was played by 2 hands.

[arensky]

And to think I was just about to go to the shops to get myself a bottle of Schenley Vodka to try…

No, get the Chopin Vodka! Not just because we're pianists but it's really good!! "Like water"...

[zongora]

Hi,

Barere did not have any extraordinary positions on the piano. He just sat there and played. The only thing that was quite obvious was his sweating. Having to wear that damn tux, there was a drop of sweat pouring down his nose every two seconds. Would have driven me nuts.

I went to a rehearsal of William Kapell one time. He played the Rachmaninoff Rhapsodie. After it was all over and the orchestra left, he kept on playing the same part over and over again.

Saw Rubinstein many times and also photographed him. He was one of my favorite pianists. Will run a thread on him some day.

As far as Hoffman goes, I had a chance to see him but missed it.  I was quite young and didn’t know any better.  However, I still have the flyer on him.



Zongora

[BoliverAllmon]

see I was always told that it is foolish to keep all the concert flyers. now, i know better. great stuff.

[etudes]

great post zongora
btw are you hungarian?? zongora is means piano if i am not wrong

[bernhard]

No, get the Chopin Vodka! Not just because we're pianists but it's really good!! "Like water"...

Thanks for the tip.

Isn’t there a “Liszt Wine”? I believe I saw a bottle of it at some point.