Most difficult solo piece IN COMMON REPERTOIRE

[Skeptopotamus]

what is the single nastiest piece that you commonly hear in competitions?

so far the list of contenders i've come up with is:

Balakirev Islamei
Beethoven Sonata No. 29 Op. 106 "Hammerklavier"
Brahms Sonata No. 3
Brahms Variations on a Theme by Paganini Books I and II
Corigliano Etude Fantasy
Liszt Riminiscences de Don Juan
Liszt Sonata in B Minor
Messiaen Vingt Regards sur l’Enfante Jesus: X Regards de l’Esprit de Joie
Prokofiev Sonata No. 6
Prokofiev Sonata No. 7
Rachmaninov Sonata No. 2 Op. 36
Ravel Gespard de la Nuit
Schumann Symphonic Etudes Op. 13
Tchaikovsky-Pletnev Concert Suite from the Ballet "Nutcracker"

[phil13]

I don't play in competitions so correct me if I'm wrong...

How about some of Liszt's trancendental etudes? Speciffically Mazeppa and Feux-Follets. Are they played often?

BTW congratulations on making me laugh for the first time on this forum. I read your co-attack with Fred Smalls on Vlad and his spam. (Although some of it was helpful, it was WAY too long-winded and boring.)

Hope someone else has a better grasp on this topic.

Phil

[Skeptopotamus]

oh we did that to all three of his topics in this board, plus a fourth which was actually the funniest but that topic got deleted.

[Skeptopotamus]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11379.0.html

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11380.0.html

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11381.0.html

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11382.0.html



there is much comedic genius in these, the funniest going largely unnoticed I assume, where fred copy/pasted a large section of a Mozart biography and I went and found that same biography and copy/pasted from where he left off.  Mine and Fred's genius is mindboggling, eh?



Anyways, back on subject!

[Skeptopotamus]

and our comedic genius is dwarfed only by our musical genius.  Our composition:

Concerto in Ridiculously Amazing Style for 3 Sets of Kitten Triplets, Pretend Orchestra and Water Logged History Papers, Op. 1/3 of a can of chicken soup


John Cage would be envious of our daring approach to music.

[fred smalls]

I submit the question to our numerous fans: 

QUESTION:

Why are we so amazingly hilarious?




ANSWER:

It is only with time and patience one can truely understand why Fred Smalls and Skeptopotamus are such comic gurus.   I was attending a lecture in Prague on such matters.  *insert incredibly boring article here*.  And I realized that great comedy relies on great minds.  Minds of those who are almost godlike. *rant on about something completely unrelated that has been copied from many other forums for about 25 paragraphs*



*** YEAH
FRED SMALLS

[fred smalls]

I'd say the Julius Reubke sonata in b- is pretty difficult...

[Skeptopotamus]

I submit the question to our numerous fans: 

QUESTION:

Why are we so amazingly hilarious?




ANSWER:

It is only with time and patience one can truely understand why Fred Smalls and Skeptopotamus are such comic gurus.   I was attending a lecture in Prague on such matters.  *insert incredibly boring article here*.  And I realized that great comedy relies on great minds.  Minds of those who are almost godlike. *rant on about something completely unrelated that has been copied from many other forums for about 25 paragraphs*



*** YEAH
FRED SMALLS

Fred this is truely hilarious.  I am pissing myself as we speak.

[musicsdarkangel]

the most difficult piece would be the Barber sonata.


But that's not listed 


an amazing piece.

[Skeptopotamus]

yes it is an amazing piece.  I've done the barber concerto but i dont have any experience with the sonata so i have no idea.  It never came across as being as hard as say..... the Rach Son 2.... to me anyways.  Why is it so difficult?

[jehangircama]

are you talking about technical difficulties or difficulties in interpretation also?

[Skeptopotamus]

technical.  for god's sake stick to technical XD

[jehangircama]

technique?  then probably the brahms and chopin sonatas. also beethoven haamerklavier and possibly the 9th symphony transcription by Liszt (though this may not be too common)

[chromatickler]

you people are pathetic. the one and only obvious rule to ranking technical difficulty is to specify without exception of all your nominated repertoire the specific time frame and degree of accuracy you wish to execute said pieces in.

now get all your lazy behinds to da SDC n get educated

[Skeptopotamus]

untrue.  (untru for you mr SDC).  Beethoven Moonlight Sonata vs. Nancarrow Tango?

=P ( for you)

[chromatickler]

untrue.  (untru for you mr SDC).  Beethoven Moonlight Sonata vs. Nancarrow Tango?

=P ( for you)

u dare tell me da moonlite mvmt1 played in 20secz is eaziah den sitereading da NECRO in 2hourz where u haff a eazy metah of 60beatz per bar?

[jehangircama]

its a given that you play the pieces in their respective times...

[musicsdarkangel]

yes it is an amazing piece.  I've done the barber concerto but i dont have any experience with the sonata so i have no idea.  It never came across as being as hard as say..... the Rach Son 2.... to me anyways.  Why is it so difficult?

Give me your e-mail.

I'm going to send you a vid.

You'll need windows media.

[maxy]

Allow me to add 3 mvts de Petroushka in your list.

[apion]

Overall, Brahms Paganini Vars I & II is toughest.

[jehangircama]

Liszt rhapsodies are also tough, whatever your standard may be. even the Bach chromatic fantasy and fugue seems tough..

[Skeptopotamus]

POLE ADDED!  all rejoyce.  choose three.

[musicsdarkangel]

cool thread


*bump*


BTW, I put Barber sonata, Gaspard, and Don Juan

[musicsdarkangel]

Skept, i sent the file.

[pita bread]

Why only one specific piece from Vingt Regards?

[Skeptopotamus]

cause that's the one that gets played the most

[musicsdarkangel]

what the hell.


5 people votied Islamey..... that's hilarious


Islamey is harder than the Barber, Hammerklavier, variations on a theme by Pagannini, Brahms sonata, Don Juan, and the Rach 2nd sonata?

that's hilarious.

La Campanella is tougher than that piece. 



BTW, maybe Mephisto should be on the list since Islamey is.

[Skeptopotamus]

hahaha true islamei is the easiest on there but it is not easier than la campanella.

[musicsdarkangel]

hahaha true islamei is the easiest on there but it is not easier than la campanella.

I disagree.


It is a bit longer, but La Campanella has a different technical demand on every page.

La Campanella is easier to memorize.

It depends on the individual I guess............ I asked my teacher which is harder, and he said that it's too hard to say, they are both completely different.

Well, it also depends on the tempo you take.

If you take it at a walking tempo, it's much easier.

Otherwise, the jumps, octaves, chordal runs (Busoni), and repeated notes are pretty ridiculous.

[Skeptopotamus]

wow i cant believe people are voting for the Prok 7 over the prok 6

[musicsdarkangel]

i was just thinking the same thing.

[Skeptopotamus]

hahaha and people think the paganini variations are harder than the sonata no. 3

[steinwaym]

hahaha and people think the paganini variations are harder than the sonata no. 3

Yeah, cause they are.




Anway, whoever didn't vote for Petrouchka should be slapped.

[Skeptopotamus]

the brahms sonata no. 3 is harder.

[Waldszenen]

Definitely not

[Skeptopotamus]

it's considerably longer and it is harder musically.

[stevie]

technical.  for god's sake stick to technical XD

[Skeptopotamus]

*** that.  I just didnt want idiots coming on here like

"oh man the mozart sonatas are the hardest cause they have to be perfect LOL ROFL I'm retarded PWN'D  tee hee"



the difference is big enough that we can skip that rule just this one time.

[presto agitato]

This poll sucks. Where the hell is Schubert´s Wanderer Fantasy or Mendelssohn´s Varations Op 54.

[musicsdarkangel]

Don Juan = higher than Hammer K


and also, the Sonata no 3 and Pag. Variations are definitely comparible.


I like this poll.  You can't think of everything at one time, he got a bunch of the goodies.

[Skeptopotamus]

This poll sucks. Where the hell is Schubert´s Wanderer Fantasy or Mendelssohn´s Varations Op 54.

Well if I was gonna use Schubert's Wanderer I would also have to use D. 894, D. 958 and D. 960 because those are all harder.


And Mendelssohn?  please tell me you're not serious..........

[vovo]

Fantasie Impromtu by Chopin is not listed.


its a great song



 

[jeremyjchilds]

Fantasie Impromtu by Chopin is not listed.


its a great song



 

Fantasie Impromptu is in a different (lower League)

There are some tricky parts, and it is like candy to hear, but is nowhere near as sustained or involved as some of the listed options.

[nanabush]

I can't believe you didn't put Fur Elise!!  That's like the toughest, most confusing piece in solo repertoire!!!!!!!!!  You guys no nothing of music..











  

[Skeptopotamus]

DAMN i forgot fur elise!!!!!!!  sooo sorry

[nanabush]

Comon, you gotta be on top of things, I say you make another pole INCLUDING fur elise...


 

[Skeptopotamus]

you do it.  I'm too lazy.

[Skeptopotamus]

 

[lisztwasgod]

Why does everyone think islamey is so *** hard? gaspard is WAY more difficult and profound; the prokoffiev toccatta is a monster, all of the transcendental etudes are ridiculous, and theliszt transcriptions norma and don juan and the liszt and rach 2 sonatas are works requiring almost as much understanding and musicality than the implicit prodigious technicality. the brahms variations and ballades are intense works of art, and the goldberg variations are retardedly hard; WE ARE DEIGNING SOME OF THE GREATEST WORKS FOR THE SAKE OF THE PRIDE OF THOSE WHO CAN PLAY THEM!!!! I am thrilled that so many people can enjoy and savor these works, perhaps even play them to a decent standard,  but too many pieces are more difficult than others in ways other pieces cannot even relate! For a student of ten years a schubert fantasy might be the hardest thing to understand, but a liszt hungarian rhapsody the hardest to play; for an artist of decades experience, works like OC and the Rach 3 (maybe, MAYBE grieg's piano concerto) still boggle them mind. But if we're sticking to the topic of solo piano, how can one compare difficulty?

I have HUGE hands, i can reach from a middle c to the fsharp over an octave away, and my fingers are as nimble as the best...but i cant play mozart to save my life, my big bony fingers get in the way of themselves during the slow parts. i still say a mozart concerto is waaaay harder than the rach sonata 2 or even the rach 2 concerto! WHY?! BECAUSE ITS NOT ABOUT THE NOTES...there are so many pieces that tip the scales in terms of note difficulty and technical demands that take years to master. Rachmaninoff uses cascading chords, chopin cascading sixths, liszt his ascending and descending chromatic thirds, prokoffiev interwoven notes...who are we to judge the difficulty of these technicalities relative to one another...i can play octaves easier than sixths, but for those with small hands, those chromatic thirds which took me months to get down in don juan might have only taken a few hours of solid practice!!!

HOW ABOUT RENAMING a NEW forum, excluding these ridiculous superlatives, and just saying "stunningly hard pieces in solo piano repertoire" or "the highest tier of difficulty for solo piano works in terms of musicality, understanding and technicality" or "Pieces that are exceptionally difficult to interpret and give a well-rounded playing"...and i assure you, only of all of these topics would only a few still be on every list...and even then, would several surmounting difficulties in one large masterwork still compare to an insurmountable ONE in another? DO the technical difficulties in one negate the easier passages in another and vice versa? If a piece is nonstop action but still fallsnicely under the hand, is it as hard as say, the rach 2, which is very predictable in structure, but the hand positions and fingerings are very strange to any pianist...including rachmaninoff himself. 

lets get on these new forums, because i want to see the variance in our responses...for instance, and i reuse an example...islamey is very hard to play for so many people, but interpreting it is as easy as reading it off the page, whereas the liszt sonata does not have the barrage and variation of technical tests within its structures, but interpreting the music and playing it to the thighest standard is something rarely done! THESE are the polls with which we should concern ourselves, not the contest of opinion that is ranking incomparable superlatives in a futile race to see what the infallible voices of those who havent played all of these pices say...by the way...has anyone played all of these pieces? if so, why dont they come ofrth and offer an opinion before the less-then-mighty speak so effortlessly of the mastery of the art of music and the ineffable cocnern towards proving the machismo of a piece through its raw, undeniable reputation. I want experience to be the judge on this one...not looking at the score, but comparing what one has played with what another has played and so on and so on...

[ahinton]

1. What is difficult for one pianist will be less so for another.
2. It remains unclear precisely what is intended to be meant by "difficult" in this context
3. It is also unclear where a universally agreed line could be drawn between "common" and "uncommon" repertoire? - yes, the Hammerklavier, etc. could be called "common" repertoire and some of Sorabji's works "uncommon" repertoire (for the time being, at least), but that fact hardly helps to define all piano music as fitting into either one or the other category...

A bit of a dumb thread, it seems...

Best,

Alistair