How much to charge to drive to student's house?

[lagin]

Okay, there is this family that really wants me to teach their little girl who is in about grade three piano.  The thing is, is that they want me to drive to their house.  So, my rate for a lesson is $12.50.  Gas here is over $4 a gallon, and they live 35 -40 minutes away.  So $12.50 + gas there and back (special trip) = about $20.00 total.  Now, how much do I charge on top of that for my time which will be just over an hour driving there and back.  No, they are not on the way to anything, and it would have to be a special trip just for them.  (They are used to paying around $19.00 for lessons when they used to drive to another teacher).  So my price plus the gas is not outragious for them.  I just need to know what to charge for the hour and 20 minutes driving.  What's fair?  Thanks guys.

[Siberian Husky]

your going to charge for a 20 minute drive?..

[ptmidwest]

Is this  for a half-hour lesson, an hour lesson, or something else?

[lagin]

No, No, it's an HOUR AND 20 MINUTES.  40 minutes there and another 40 minutes back home.  It would be for a half hour lesson, thus only $12.50 for the actual lesson.  She is only 9 or 10, and doesn't need an hour lesson.

[ptmidwest]

I would not take the student; it is not going to be long-term study. 

At $25/hour, you would charge about $50 for each half-hour lesson.

And of course, your decision hinges at least partially on other considerations:  how much you need the money, how much time you have, what the area has to offer in piano lessons, what kind of teaching you can offer, what kind of support the parents can offer...

I am thinking that it is best to tell them that you cannot take their child as a student, but as soon as you hear of a teacher who lives closer to them whom you feel you can recommend, you will let them know.

[Appenato]

I have a family whose house I drive to to teach as well, and they're 40 minutes away. I charge an extra $20. If you're going to drive to someone's house to teach, charge a flat rate.... If it sounds like an outrageous price, well... if they really want you to come to their home, they should be willing to pay for the convenience.

[thalberg]

It's extremely kind of you even to consider this situation.  You're driving nearly three times as much as you're teaching.  This is NOT fair to you.  Don't do this to yourself.  Tell them they can drive to you, or else the situation is unworkable.

(Unless they'll pay the $50 plus gas--which some wealthier folks will do without blinking)

[lagin]

Well, the reason they want me, is kinda confusing.  Their old teacher is my current teacher.  They are eventually planning to return to this teacher, and want me to make sure that everything is kept "up to snuff" for when they do.  They want me to keep it fun, and watch out for bad technique habits.  They like me because of my age, too.  I think they want a fun role model closer in age to their daughter than our teacher is.  Then they plan to return to our more experienced teacher and pursue exams and such.  I don't know why they don't just go back right now??   There isn't alot of teachers that fit the description as you can see.  Young, same curriculum as their old teacher, willing to come to the house, and willing to go short term.  Well, this is what I came up with that seems fair to me.

$12.50 = 30 min. lesson
$16.60 = my rate for one way to there house (will swallow other way as do most contractors)
$5.00 = gas money
------------------------
$34. 10 = total bill per week

And I was thinking of telling them I wouldn't teach in the winter, and maybe they would consider going back to the other teacher then.  The roads where we live are literally lethal in the winter--straight into the lake!

This would solve their problem, give me some experience in teaching a grade 3 (haven't done this before), and some experience in taking on a student that started with another teacher.  All mine have started from the beginning with me.  At the same time, this arrangement isn't indefinite, so I can gain the experience, help them out, and not be trapped driving forever!

What do you guys think?  I just want to do what's fair for them. 
Thanks

[pianoannie]

I have never driven to students' homes, and probably never will.  But if I did, my charge for a half hour of driving would be at least as much as for a half hour of teaching.  I only have a certain number of hours I am available to teach, so if someone emphatically wanted me to drive to their house, I would still want to earn what I would have earned had I been teaching during the driving time.

[Astyron]

There's a few other things to consider -- what will happen when you do teach at their house.  When I lived in Florida I decided to agree to teaching at a student's house as it was sort of on my way home from work.  A few other families in this rich, gated community heard I was coming in to do a lesson and also hired me.  I didn't charge them an outrageous amount as it was on my way home.  I didn't forsee the problems I had to deal with despite having a syllabus and being forthright about my expectations.  The kids all really enjoyed lessons with me and we had a lot of fun, but the problems made me give up these lessons after two years.

*  Students are not as well behaved or focused in their own home.  My students would typically just walk away from the piano to answer their parents, and the parents wouldn't think twice about calling the child away from the piano in the middle of a lesson.  I dealt with each issue as it came up, but the parents apologized half-heartedly and brushed it off.  It happened again of course.  The solution is having the lesson in a space that is not high traffic and that is not their bedroom (with all the toy/game distractions)

*  Parents are also less respectful when you teach in their home, as I mentioned above.    Parents tended to be very casual when lessons started late because they were just busy doing something else in the house, and would expect me to stay and continue teaching.  I didn't, but the problem was always there with each family (except one...coincidence that they were one of the few "middle class" families living in this gated community?)

* You'll have to deal with more gifts, more invitations to dinner, offers of glasses of wine, etc, etc.  Some of these things were the parents actually trying to get me to stay longer, or teach beyond when I decided to stop.  It was very strange and uncomfortable.  Things that would never have happenned if lessons were in my own controlled environment.  I couldn't decline cute gifts from the children but did turn away many dinner invitations and glasses of wine because I didn't feel it was appropriate.

All in all, I was very sorry to have taught at their houses.  The children, in general, were the most unfocused bunch I've ever taught, retained the least, and adopted the attitude that I was there to serve them; there was little respect.  I teach out of my house these days and 99% of my students study hard, are very respectful as are their parents.  I enjoy it a great deal.  If you need the money, as others have said, make sure you charge them something that will make them really consider how convenient piano lessons are or aren't.  I agree with you that driving to them in the winter is silly -- it's a risk you don't really need to take.   

I question their actions and motivation.  You ought to talk to your teacher and tell them what's up.  You could risk offending your teacher by taking on these students and making your relationship tense (or tenser).   I don't like to take students I know have been sneaking around behind a teacher's back and havn't been honest with them.  I know that they'll just end up doing it to me as well.  If they haven't talked to their former (your current) teacher about switching teachers, stopping lessons, and asking you to teach, I'd be wary.

[lagin]

Thanks, astyron

This is the most detailed, constructive advice yet.  They do have a special "music room" set up.  You might be right about the sneaking bit.  I don't want to jeapordize my relationship with my teacher.  Especially when they go back and she finds out I've been teaching them.  I don't want it to be habit traveling to other's homes.  I don't need the money yet either.  I'll do some praying about it.  But I would really appreciate any more advice like astyron's.  For those of you who do it or have done it,  what are some pros and cons to teaching in someone's home. 

I think the main point that gets me is putting tension between me and my teacher.  Thank you for pointing that out.  If, I say if.  If I do this, would I be out of line to ask them to contact our teacher and ask her if she would mind?  Then I can ask her if so and so called her, and how she feels.  That way, she is not out of the loop.  Me and my teacher are more than just teacher and student.  We are friends, and I don't want to hurt our friendship.

[ptmidwest]

I suspect that many teachers who have taught in the student's home would agree with much of what has been posted, including Astyron's very helpful observations. 

Yet another consideration is any materials you would have to tote back and forth.  In our own studios, we always have right at hand our teaching supplies, reference books, scores, the book with the perfect example in it, or "just the right piece" to take advantage of a fleeting teachable moment.   IT IS HARD, but possible, to predict well exactly what you will need.  And then you must gather these things, and carry them back and forth, and even more, incorporate them back into your studio for use with your students there.

I have painted quite a negative picture.   In fairness, there are some situations that are happy, productive, and gratifying for the teacher and the student.   When I was a beginning teacher I did teach several students in their homes.  I was okay with it, and I didn't receive quite the treatment Astyron did,  but Astyron did bring back some memories that really ring true.

[leahcim]

If I do this, would I be out of line to ask them to contact our teacher and ask her if she would mind?

Why not ask your teacher yourself?

But first, like you say, it's confusing as to why they want this interim period and the reason might alter your decision. So I'd ask them why.

But from what you said you think it's because of an age / fun thing? I guess that could be  saying that the daughter doesn't like her current lessons / exams and rather than stop completely the parents are hoping you'll keep her at the same level until she gets the interest back?

If that's the case, I'd be wary - what you're charging suggests you don't feel you have your teacher's experience - but how much experience will you get not teaching someone? 

And, if, for example, pointing out her bad habits isn't fun what are you going to do, juggle and wear a clown costume? Ok, seriously, there are differences in approach to teaching, but ultimately the lesson / practise stuff is a means to a fun end even if you find the journey frustrating / difficult at times. How will lessons that don't make her better be more fun? Surely one of the biggest frustrations is lack of progress?

So either way, if you are already a really good teacher or you're hoping to gain more experience teaching then I'd say find someone that wants to learn from you and that you feel you can teach them - but like I said, ask them why they want you to teach in case the above is jumping to a conclusion.

[shasta]

Well, the reason they want me, is kinda confusing.  Their old teacher is my current teacher.  They are eventually planning to return to this teacher, and want me to make sure that everything is kept "up to snuff" for when they do.  They want me to keep it fun, and watch out for bad technique habits.  They like me because of my age, too.  I think they want a fun role model closer in age to their daughter than our teacher is.  Then they plan to return to our more experienced teacher and pursue exams and such. 

Sorry, lagin, but that's the biggest load of B.S. - - - they just want to use you as a bridge.  Also, what does your current teacher (the one they left) think of all this?  Does he/she even know that he/she is being replaced by YOU?  <-- Big conflict of interest.

What do you guys think? I just want to do what's fair for them.

^^  Ummm, you need to do what's fair for YOU.

[lagin]

No, shasta, she doesn't know.  What do you mean "use me as a bridge?"  A bridge to what? 

[Siberian Husky]

they want to use you at their convenience and not really invest longterm..kinda like..those jeans that dont fit you put on when the nice ones are in the wash..

[lagin]

Ooohhh.  I see.  The only thing I don't get about the situation is that my teacher isn't in the "wash."  She's totally available .  The only thing I can think of is that they must really not want to drive all the way into town where she teaches.  I think I'm just going to tell them to see if there is someone closer to them that would be willing to come to their house.  I don't know if there is any that are around my age and that teach conservatory like our teacher does, but something is better than nothing.  I haven't spoken to them yet, so any more advice is still welcome.

[pianistimo]

your teacher probably won't put up with the stuff you are.  maybe you should either tell them that you cannot sustain this without at least 4-5 other students in the area and then make time that evening to go around in their neighborhood putting out some fliers.  you never know!  it would make it more worth the drive if they helped you find more students. 

and, regarding being interrupted, that is just not acceptable.  you'll have to tell the parents that your time at the piano is concentrated time and cannot be divided.  once you have more students in the area, you won't be relying on them as your sole student/s and start going elsewhere to teach on your way home from work.  ps the more student you have in an area, the more you can divide gas/car expenses, too.

[Astyron]

You said:  "The only thing I don't get about the situation is that my teacher isn't in the 'wash.'  She's totally available."

Oo... this is a bad situation then. I wouldn't teach them at all, if I were you.  If they don't want to drive to see your teacher then they're lazy.  Actually, we KNOW they're lazy because they want you do come to them.  If they don't feel piano lessons are worth driving to, do they feel piano lessons are worth making the student practice?  I think you ought to

==> Ask this family why they want to study with you over the regular teacher?  Point out that they won't save money because of the extra fees involved for a teacher to drive to a student's house.

==>  Ask this family if they've discussed this with your/their current teacher, who is available.

==>  Tell you teacher directly, as soon as possible, today or sooner that they have asked you to teach their child.  Ask your teacher why she/he thinks this is happening.  I can only imagine the kind of conflict this could cause between you and your teacher, particularly considering there is already some tension regarding required performing.

==> If (hopefully "when") you decide not to teach this student, explain to them that it is a very big conflict of interests since you share the same teacher, and that you're not willing to risk a good teaching relationship and respectful friendship.

 They can find another teacher, and you will certainly find other students.

[jeremyjchilds]

I just charge for driving time the same as lesson time.

I have one student who pays $280 a month, because he lives a ways away...

Who knows, I quess his time is worth more than my time...that's okay with me.

My system is that if there is traffic problems, then thier lesson is cut into, because my time is worth "X" amount each hour.

Of course, then your "on location" lessons will cost an exorbitant amount, but there are some very rich people out there whose time might be worth hundreds of dollars an hour, so who knows? that's more than a piano teacher's

Most students either decide to come to my studio, or not take lessons, but either way I have lost nothing...and it's great when I can charge my hourly rate to sit in my car with no stress....

[shasta]

You said:  "The only thing I don't get about the situation is that my teacher isn't in the 'wash.'  She's totally available."

Oo... this is a bad situation then. I wouldn't teach them at all, if I were you.  If they don't want to drive to see your teacher then they're lazy.  Actually, we KNOW they're lazy because they want you do come to them.  If they don't feel piano lessons are worth driving to, do they feel piano lessons are worth making the student practice? 

^^  Yes, exactly.  Agree with Astyron 100%.

they want to use you at their convenience and not really invest longterm..kinda like..those jeans that dont fit you put on when the nice ones are in the wash..

^^  Yes, don't be the ill-fitting jeans!!!    

[raffyplayspiano]

driving to a student's lesson is such an inconvenience..and you dont know what enviroment you will be working in. 

you need to charge a lot extra to make up for all the extra effort you will have to make. 

raffy

[ashcatty]

I really do not think this student is worth it, unless they pay you enough for your time. I drive to my students homes, and I keep my students within my town and close to one another, I only have one student who lives 20-30 mins away and they pay me enough to make it worth my time, gas, and effort.  You cannot let people take advantage of you when you are driving to their homes and providing a real service to them, and you should charge accordingly.  If teachers charge $90 a month and the students are going to their homes, then your service for driving is even greater and worth the money.

[lostinidlewonder]

The majority of my students are at home students. It is much more logical to make sure that you have a number of students around the same area. I have to often travel 30 mins to go see a student, but once I am finished with them the next one is only a few minutes away. It isn't worth it travelling so far for one student, unless you enjoy travelling and fuel costs.

[pianoannie]

unless you enjoy travelling and fuel costs.

I nearly spewed my coffee on this one!!      Gotta love them fuel costs!

[timothy42b]

Driving to a student's house seems a little strange now, but a few years back it was quite common.  Of course so were house calls from the doctor.

Still, personal trainers work that way now.  Any of the celebrity personal trainers do home visits. 

[allthumbs]

I wouldn't drive to a student's house, it's not cost effective time-wise. Can you imagine if every student wanted to do this?

You get the picture.

Cheers

allthumbs

[bernhard]

Here is another idea. Get a taxi and see how much the driver charges you to get you there. Then add this amount to your fee (after all you are driving yourself there).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[cora]

Some other potential pitfalls of driving to people's houses:

pets
extraneous sounds, parents talking on the phone
the temperature, the seating, the lighting, the piano's tuning

I find the students don't have to form much of a relationship with me because their parents do this for them. This is the most serious problem for me.

They're comfortable, and I'm missing my warm little house to be in their rich lonely palace. I don't feel as happy.

Currently I'm teaching four children in one family and really like the fact that they make up about 20% of my income. But I'd rather teach them in my home. But the transportation and time needed by them in the winter would be cumbersome.