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Mozart Can Tell the Difference

For the first time in the history of The Cliburn Competition, semifinalists were required to perform a Mozart concerto. This was not only based on the fact that the Cliburn Foundation’s CEO Jacques Marquis is a classical concerto fan, but rather from the aim of judging how competitors show musical maturity and the delicate world of the Austrian master. Read more >>

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Author Topic: Rondo alla turca (Turkish March) by Mozart  (Read 4900 times)
beanz
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« on: August 10, 2005, 01:15:30 PM »

Hey guys Smiley. I am new to playing the piano (started a year ago) and i am attempting to play Turkish March by Mozart. I am having a few problems playing the grace notes (ornaments) in the beginning of measure 6 ( the notes are GAB) in the treble clef.

Whenever i play it, it sounds like i am hitting a chord instead of three different notes in quick succession.

I think the problem is in the fingering. I am now using RH 345 to play it.

Does anyone have an efficient fingering?

Thanx in advance.Smiley
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piano sheet music of Alla Turca
lufia
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2005, 01:41:59 PM »

Yo i had the exact same problem that you had. You go like this
3-4-5 back n fourth. You can also try practicing them as triplets.
Repeat 3-4-5 or 2-3-4 on the table if your not next to the piano slowly than when you feel comfortable go faster. Than after this is all done try playing it and its mastered!! btw this is a extremely hard piece if you only played for a year.
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musicality
luc
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2005, 04:15:13 PM »

Yo i had the exact same problem that you had. You go like this
3-4-5 back n fourth. You can also try practicing them as triplets.
Repeat 3-4-5 or 2-3-4 on the table if your not next to the piano slowly than when you feel comfortable go faster. Than after this is all done try playing it and its mastered!! btw this is a extremely hard piece if you only played for a year.

Really? Are you serious? I began learning it when I played for four months or something (it was my first piece longer than one page lol)
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OSMOSE NOW
xvimbi
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2005, 04:46:20 PM »

Really? Are you serious? I began learning it when I played for four months or something (it was my first piece longer than one page lol)

Yeah, but when did you finish it?

If you were able to play K.331, III. Movement at speed and "correctly" after a few months of piano playing, you can rightfully consider yourself a prodigy on par with the best of the century. You may directly proceed to Rach3 and Carnegie Hall.
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Appenato
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2005, 04:48:16 PM »

i use 1 2 3 for the grace notes. you would have to move quickly to use 4 2 on the suceeding notes, but 1 2 3 for the grace notes works effectively.
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When music fails to agree to the ear, to soothe the ear the heart and the senses, then it has missed the point. - Maria Callas
Appenato
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2005, 04:52:08 PM »

Yeah, but when did you finish it?

If you were able to play K.331, III. Movement at speed and "correctly" after a few months of piano playing, you can rightfully consider yourself a prodigy on par with the best of the century. You may directly proceed to Rach3 and Carnegie Hall.

why
do  people here always  feel the tremendous need to attack others who say they can play certain advanced pieces after only having begun lessons a few months prior?? just because it took you longer to play advanced music doesn't mean you have to cut others down for their excelling talent.
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When music fails to agree to the ear, to soothe the ear the heart and the senses, then it has missed the point. - Maria Callas
xvimbi
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2005, 05:06:43 PM »


why
do  people here always  feel the tremendous need to attack others who say they can play certain advanced pieces after only having begun lessons a few months prior?? just because it took you longer to play advanced music doesn't mean you have to cut others down for their excelling talent.

Huh, did I cut anyone down? I called lufia a prodigy. How much more can you praise somebody's "excellent talent". You think it was sarcasm? I admit a slight amount of disbelief, but offer honest admiration if it's true.
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gorbee natcase
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2005, 06:04:07 PM »

i use 1 2 3 for the grace notes. you would have to move quickly to use 4 2 on the suceeding notes, but 1 2 3 for the grace notes works effectively.
CANT IMMAGINE trying to use that fingering it looks unnecessarily awkward
but we are all different so who knows,
Infact I am going to try it out maybe I will be supprised
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(> <)      What ever Bernhard said
gorbee natcase
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2005, 06:06:28 PM »

what do you know I am
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(> <)      What ever Bernhard said
luc
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2005, 06:15:14 PM »

Hi,
I didn't want to brag or something..
Took me mmh.. about four months to be able to play the notes.. That doesn't mean that I could play it perfectly.
Sorry if I said something wrong   Roll Eyes
and: lufia??  Grin
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xvimbi
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2005, 06:18:22 PM »

and: lufia??  Grin

Sorry, luc. I seem to confuse people, lately...
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beanz
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2005, 06:56:28 AM »

Thanks for the response guys. I think i will stick to playong grace notes with RH 345 at the moment and practice so that i can play them better hehehe.

and if it mens anything, I can play Moonlight Sonata in C#m by Beethoven (1st mov) (almost) perfectly before starting this piece.

Thanks again for your consideration to my problem
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lufia
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2005, 02:18:09 PM »

no problems   Tongue
Yeah, but when did you finish it?

If you were able to play K.331, III. Movement at speed and "correctly" after a few months of piano playing, you can rightfully consider yourself a prodigy on par with the best of the century. You may directly proceed to Rach3 and Carnegie Hall.
rofl Grin
Sorry, luc. I seem to confuse people, lately...
I deMAND a apology!. i personnally take this as a insult. GET DOWN ON YOUR KNEES AND BEG FOR MERCY! Angry
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musicality
magicmusicmethod
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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2013, 08:06:39 AM »

I know it's been a long time since your initial post, but I just found this thread while searching for different opinions on how to phrase and accent the grace notes in this piece, so maybe others who find themselves here can benefit from my answer.

Using 3-4-5 to play the grace notes in MS. 6 (or MS. 5 if you don't count the pick-up bar) could be a problem because of 2 issues:

1. The ring finger and pinkie both are controlled by the Ulnar Nerve, and because of this, nerve impulses often trigger both fingers at the same time, causing difficulty in achieving finger independence. The ring finger also shares the Median Nerve with the rest of the hand, but the overlap between the pinky and ring fingers cause neurological signals to cross all the time. This can be re-programmed in some cases, where the Median nerve is used to send signals to the ring finger independently of the pinky, but varies from student to student.

Hanon exercises and scales attempt to rectify this but without the knowledge of the physiology of the built in obstacle in the physical structure of the nerves in the hand, which can cause repetitive strain injury if a person forces the issue. Playing fast passages with pinky and ring thus can become difficult and cause problems above and beyond any discussion of skill or talent or lack thereof.

Source: I'm a piano teacher.
also, http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00069

2. The score calls for the use of the thumb on the first grace note in that measure, setting up the hand position to be 1-2-3 for those notes and then the score calls for the 4th finger to be used for the high A in the F#-A interval on the 2nd 8th note of the measure. This is less of a strain on the hand and wrist, and allows the piece to be learned in note clusters that can be memorized in visual patterns which are instantly easy to understand and physically less difficult to play.

I'm sure that since it's been like 8 years since you posted this you have figured this out by now but maybe my post can help the next random person who is looking for advice.
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j_menz
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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2013, 11:07:18 PM »

I'm sure that since it's been like 8 years since you posted this you have figured this out by now but maybe my post can help the next random person who is looking for advice.

It's not the time, but the content. 345 is perfectly doable and, with practice, shouldn't cause any problems. We do, after all, use 345 patterns in scales and such all the time.

There's nothing wrong with using 123 either, though the effect will likely be slightly different. Determine if there is a difference, choose the sound you want and then use the fingering that generates it.
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"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant
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