Steinway Model V-132

[NocturneInEb]

Hi

I am from Singapore. A dealer here is offering for sale a 1982 Upright Steinway Model V-132 for S$10,000 (equivalent to approx. USD 6,000). The exterior of the piano looks brand new but inside looks quite used. I noticed that the hammerheads have very deep grooves and some of them are not alligned properly. Of course the dealer claims that he can restore everything for me.

The other thing that bothers me is that the tone of this piano sounds very bright and may need voicing to be done.

What do you guys think? Is it worth the money? Any suggestions/ advice will be much appreciated. Thanks.

[xenon]

This investment really depends on the level of playing skill you have.  If you are a beginner, perhaps it is somewhat of a good idea.  But if you are intermediate-advanced, or are contemplating to go "all the way" in music (say, to ARCT (gr11) level to (semi)-professional), i would recommend a grand piano.  Perhaps, not too big, say 5'6" or so, if money is tight.  It is worth the investment, as you can sell a better piano at a closer price to the original price you bought it at.  

Steinway pianos depreciate a lot at the end of its career (as you mentioned it is bright).  There are Steinway 7' and 9' Grand Pianos that I play at the University, and they are getting old and in the past few years, have had an exponential depreciation level.  You mention that it is over 20 years old, and should look at getting one at the most 10 years old.  It also depends on the previous user.

How trustworthy is this dealer?  Many dealers can be like second-hand car salesmen.  The poor hammerheads are a bad idea.  To replace the heads, it can cost $700 CAD ($882.72 SGD).  The brillant sound is also a major pain that I experienced with older Steinways.  Dealers should repair it first then sell it, rather than sell you a shabby piano then offer to fix it up.

Steinway pianos only have a 5 year warranty.  They are good for that period, and longer with lots of tender loving care, but they do have that tendency to depreciate.

I would definately recommend a baby grand or grand piano, perhaps from Yamaha.  They last long and are an excellent investment.  They are made not too far from Singapore, so shipping won't be as high as it is here in Canada.  Perhaps, if you find a good second-hand Yamaha, it will be wiser to choose that than the Steinway.

Good luck and happy hunting!

[tosca1]

A 1982 Steinway Model V-132 should still have quite a lot of life left.  The price seems fair for a vertical piano of that age and quality.  It is generally believed that the acoustic life of strings and hammers in a piano that has regular use is about 30 years.  

It seems that the piano has had a lot of use but the state of the case suggests that it has been well housed and not abused.


The hammers could be refaced which would be a much cheaper option than having them replaced.  It is however important that you have this work done by a very reputable and competent Steinway technician which a Steinway agency in Singapore could advise you about.  

Ultimately only you can make the decision about whether or not to buy the piano.  Trust your intuition with the sound and enquire about the refacing of the hammers.

The equatorial climate in Singapore must make life difficult for pianos.

Kind regards,
Robert.

[NocturneInEb]

Hi guys, thanks for the advice. I agree with xenon and have decided to give the Steinway a miss. I only considered it because of the brand. After giving it more thought, I think I should place more importance on touch and tone than just brand

I am now considering a 6 year old Yamaha C2 (5'8") which a dealer is asking for S$13,000 (approx. USD 7,000). Condition wise, it is almost brand new. Is it a good buy?

Robert, you are absolutely right about the problem with the humid condition here. Because of this, it is indeed very difficult to keep pianos in good condition for more than 10 years.

Most of the good conditioned used pianos here are imported from Japan. I would not consider getting a used local piano unless it is relatively new.

[Brian Lawson, RPT]

Hi, whatever you end up buying, get yourself a dammp-chaser to handle the humidity, minmally just the heater bar.  

Try this:   aquatred_chay@yahoo.com   he is in Singapore, working on restoring a 1975 Yamaha C7

[tosca1]

Dear NocturneInEb,
The Yamaha C2 would seem an excellent choice, especially at that competitive price.  I hope that you will be delighted with it and even a small grand will give you a better response than a vertical piano.

 How can you manage to keep your piano in a good playable condition given the heat and extremely high humidity of Singapore.  Is it essential to keep  a piano in an air conditioned environment?

Humidity can be a problem here in Auckland and I am always monitoring the ambient temperature and humidity to try to keep my piano in good shape.

Best wishes for your new piano.
Robert.

 

[NocturneInEb]

Hi all

I cannot afford to put the piano in a climate-controlled room. It will sit in my sitting room which will be air-conditioned at least twice a week. And yes, it will be installed with a dampchaser.

[xenon]

NocturneInEb> Oh, wow, that is a great find.  C2 is a good size, and looks like good quality, and 6 years old is great.  The price is also very nice! (wow, it rhymes!).  That piano will definately be a worthwhile investment for the many years to come.

I wish I could find a great deal like that.  I am still using a Yamaha console (smaller than an upright ) and it is dire need of replacing, especially for the capacity of music that I am playing on it.  I was looking for a C5 or 6.  Would anyone know the price of a good one? thx

[NocturneInEb]

xenon, I am still wondering whether I deserve the C2 since I only started playing the piano 1 year ago. As my nickname suggests, I'm still trying to master Chopin's Nocturne in Eb. :-/

But from what I read in this forum, it seems that if funds and space allow, grand is the way to go...

Actually, most of the dealers in used pianos here source for good pianos from Japan. I have seen 20 year-old pianos that look mint. Apparently they are really well kept in Japan. Of course the nice dry weather helps a lot too. Maybe you should look for some sellers from Japan if you want to get a good deal

[xenon]

Nocturne> That's true, some older pianos are in great condition, but that all depends on the owner.  If the previous owner was a real piano enthusiast/performer, they would want their piano in the optimal condition.  However, if the piano is just a decoration...that's a shame  .

The local Yamaha dealership reports thatat least 45% of the pianos they sell is for the purpose of decoration.  Phooey!

Grand piano is definatly a big and worthwhile investment.  If you consider to learn piano to the maximum capacity, then grand is the way to go.  Usually, the better the piano, the better the price you can get if you decide piano is not your thing and you want to sell it.

At least you've been playing for one year, and you should get to know the feel of a pianist's life.  Don't feel guilty.  Some people only buy them as a decoration...

But, I really need to get a piano... I've noticed eversince about 4 years ago or so, the pieces were not fit for my piano.  It is really small.  In fact, I'll go upstairs and measure the dimensions of my piano.  Just a sec...

23" (58.6 cm) depth (including keyboard) x 51" (130.7 cm) length x 41" (104.4 cm) height.

Small, eh?

[NocturneInEb]

Hi Xenon

Yes, your piano is rather small but from the (very) limited experience that I have, it is not the size that counts. Of course a well made big upright would probably have better tone (especially in the bass department) than a spinet but I guess bass response aside, a well made spinet or console should still produce superior tone compared to a badly made upright.

For example, I have tried 109 cm height Steingraebers and I find that they are generally very well made with nice touch and tone. Personally, I just like my bass to ring out - that's why I prefer a bigger piano.

What exactly is wrong with your piano? Have you tried to get it regulated and/or voiced? I had my Yamaha U3 regulated a few months back and boy, what a difference it made! It almost felt like I got a new piano!

[xenon]

Really...I'll have to investigate that.  My piano is just too small, and it jams up too.  Some really fast and loud pieces just don't sound good, and the quality is diminishing.  One piece I played last year didn't suit my piano at all.  When I practiced on my piano, it sounded horrible, but when I went to my piano lessons, the piece was completely different.  Wierd...  Anyways, the placement of the keyboard is funny which is giving my back problems etc.  It was a great piano, but it's just time for a new one.

[GJB]

Interesting conversation. I too have a Yamaha U3, which I get tuned monthly.  I found someone reliable who's given me a great rate for tuning.  My piano is about 6yrs old, and I've asked my tuner about regulating and he says my piano is in fine shape and years away from that.  My question is, how do you know when your piano needs to be regulated, and what is an approx. cost? I understand regulation can be quite expensive.

Thanks,

Gary

[xenon]

If you take a look at the hammers, if they have ridges in them, that's not good .  There may be minor indentation, but if it is really deep (to the point where hammers stick to the strings) then it needs to be replaced.  If you find that the tone and action is not that great, it can be another sign that you need the felt or hammer to be replaced.  Ask the tuner for advice on it.  Anyways, tuning once a month is crazy!  Wow, it must be in great shape.  My piano tuner charges $70 CAD, how about yours?

[GJB]

Xenon,

Thanks for the advice on regulation.  I don't see those ridges you mention, and the tone is very warm.  I'm paying $40 American, a month for tuning, which is an excellent rate.  Yes it is crazy!  I'm probably overly cautious and demanding, but I play several hours a day and like the crispness of tuning on a regular basis. The piano is in really good shape, and the regular tuning has improved the sound overall.  

Gary

[NocturneInEb]

Gary

My U3 was made in 1977. I bought it about a year ago from a used piano dealer. At that time, I couldn't play a note and had never touched a piano before. So I relied on a friend of mine to try out the action etc. Unfortunately, my friend was not very conversant in pianos as well and he plays very hard and therefore he couldn't really tell whether the touch of the piano is good or not.

A year later, with more experience and having played a lot more of other pianos, I realised that the touch of my piano was kinda weird. Let me see if I can describe this in words. Basically, when I depress the keys slowly, I can feel some resistance after the keys are depressed about 2 cm. If I used a little more force, the keys will breach this resistance and go down all the way.

When I played other pianos, especially new U3s, I realised that that was not how the keys were meant to feel. At first I just thought that perhaps my piano's action was unusually heavy and was kind of resigned to the fate.

Then, I chanced upon this piano tech who obviously loves his work very much. When I complained about my piano's action, he offered to take a look at no charge.

He later discovered that the previous owner had artificially increased the weight of the keys by messing with the "spoon" (whatever that is).

Sure enough, after he spent about 3 hours doing the necessary adjustments and voicing for the hammers, my piano sounded and felt so different, I couldn't believe it!

I think a 6 year old piano like yours is still relatively new and should be in terrific shape (esp with the very regular tuning) and you should have nothing to worry about.

[xenon]

I was wondering, is monthly tuning a good idea?  I know that it'll keep the piano in good tune and condition, but with all that constant pin movement, couldn't the threads wear out prematurely, or the pins and receptacles lose some of their dexterity?  I'm not sure, just a thought .

[GJB]

Nocturne,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my inquiry regarding regulation and such.  For someone playing such a short time, you seem have a remarkable grasp of the working of the instrument .  Good luck with your studies.  I find the U3 to be a very expressive instrument, if it's kept in fine condition.  It took me over 5 yrs. to find a technician that is really dependable, knowledgeable and honest.  Those guys are hard to come by, especially in Austin, Texas!  Well, thanks again.

Gary

[TwinkleFingers]

Oh my you have your piano tuned once a month!!! Why not learn how to do this yourself.  That is what Im trying to do now cause Im like you wanting the crispness of a finely tuned piano.  Im going to start another topic on piano tuning kits and which one is best to get to start out.