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Topic: relative difficulty  (Read 1197 times)

Offline jeremyjchilds

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relative difficulty
on: August 20, 2005, 04:56:52 PM
Have scholars ever gotten together and tried to come up with a standard rating system for the (general) difficulty of each piece in the standart Rep?

Now don't say that it can't be done...yes it's different for everyone, but such a guide would still be helpful for choosing rep.

I'm thinking about rock climbing when I write this, each route in my guiebook has a grade and a little symbol for what makes it that grade (sloping holds, length, scary runouts, overhang etc. ) The same thing could be done with the rep.

If there is anything even remotely resembling this (I don't care about symbols though) either on the web, or in a book, then I would love to know..I just want to know which etude-tableaux to go for first... :)
"He who answers without listening...that is his folly and his shame"    (A very wise person)

Offline alzado

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Re: relative difficulty
Reply #1 on: August 20, 2005, 05:30:23 PM
At risk of disappointing you, I have some real questions as to whether this makes very good sense.

Jeremy, difficult FOR WHOM?   That's where it stops working, I think.

Because different of us pianists here, amateur or more, have different kinds of skill.  What is a struggle for one piano student may be a piece of cake for another.

I will take on almost any piece, perhaps not wisely, but I very much dislike very fast runs.  Perhaps due to the fact that I'm a senior citizen.  Although, in truth, I never did that well on extremely fast runs even when younger.  I tend to avoid those pieces.  But, in compensation, I have strengths as well.  This is going to be true of most of us.

In other words, the variable here would be the individual piano student.   

And how about hand size?  I play pieces with tenth intervals throughout.  Wouldn't a woman or a young pianist with small hands have considerable difficulty with these pieces?  Again, the variable is the human performer.

And, on a different tack entirely, I also become very weary of this continual obsession here -- by quite a few posters -- to rate lists of pieces for difficulty.

Do you suppose this follows the "Boy Scout merit badge" school of performance?

In other words, "I can out-boast you because I can play "piece X," and you can only play "piece Y."   And you can see from the posting of the esteemed Dr. Expert that "X" is 0.2 percent harder than "Y."

Somehow we are all trying to score points off of each other, and no one seems to care very much about the musicality of the respective pieces.

It is all very simple.  Study the material and try to play a few bars.  If it is too difficult for you, lay it aside.  We don't need an Einstein to tell us that. 

Have a good one  --



Offline jeremyjchilds

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Re: relative difficulty
Reply #2 on: August 20, 2005, 06:04:06 PM
At risk of disappointing you, I have some real questions as to whether this makes very good sense.

Jeremy, difficult FOR WHOM?   That's where it stops working, I think.

Because different of us pianists here, amateur or more, have different kinds of skill.  What is a struggle for one piano student may be a piece of cake for another.

I will take on almost any piece, perhaps not wisely, but I very much dislike very fast runs.  Perhaps due to the fact that I'm a senior citizen.  Although, in truth, I never did that well on extremely fast runs even when younger.  I tend to avoid those pieces.  But, in compensation, I have strengths as well.  This is going to be true of most of us.

In other words, the variable here would be the individual piano student.   

And how about hand size?  I play pieces with tenth intervals throughout.  Wouldn't a woman or a young pianist with small hands have considerable difficulty with these pieces?  Again, the variable is the human performer.

And, on a different tack entirely, I also become very weary of this continual obsession here -- by quite a few posters -- to rate lists of pieces for difficulty.

Do you suppose this follows the "Boy Scout merit badge" school of performance?

In other words, "I can out-boast you because I can play "piece X," and you can only play "piece Y."   And you can see from the posting of the esteemed Dr. Expert that "X" is 0.2 percent harder than "Y."

Somehow we are all trying to score points off of each other, and no one seems to care very much about the musicality of the respective pieces.

It is all very simple.  Study the material and try to play a few bars.  If it is too difficult for you, lay it aside.  We don't need an Einstein to tell us that. 

Have a good one  --





I anticipated this sort of a response, you will notice that I conceded "yes it would be different for everyone" But that does not make it any less needed...There will always be some who can play fast octaves better than counterpoint, but everyone knows that... ::)

I don't think anyone actually cares whether Fantasie impromptu is harder than a P+F, What I care about is a "Big picture" approach to the repertoire, Conservatories around the world grade repertoire, and of course there are inconsistencies, but they are based on an average player in average circumatances...what's so bad about that. it's helpful. how much can you tell about a song by playing the first "few bars..." :o I'm shocked that an experienced pianist like yourself would say something that sounds so ignorant. I don't think you are ignorant...BTW

As for your hand size argument...well of course, the same thing is done in climbing, X route is a "reacy" 5.11c Nobody complains...I'm not looking for a progressive order of pieces from the beginning to the end, just a rough idea of what level of average challenge lies in "X" piece

As for your "merit badge" argument, I came the closest to agreeing with you here...  :-\ but a rating system would not make it any worse...we will always have people "dropping names" and it's always "la camp" this or "fant imp" that. People will find a way to annoy us either way. I hate that too, but people will either be "name" hungry or "grade" hungry....

Azaldo, you have misread my Question...I did not ask wether a rating system would be infallible and completely objective...I asked if there was one.

I like the syllabus for various conservatories, but the only problem is that the rep is so limited, I just want something like that for all the standard rep... I also think that the ARCT catagory is a little to varied, there is a much bigger span in this grade...from Brahms 118-2 to Scarbo.

Thanks for your "soul statement" I completely agree that we should play songs because of the love of music, and not status.

I ask again: If anyone has an idea of a very broad syllabus, or a large scale effort to include most piano works, please let me know where I can view or buy it.

Thanks so much :)


"He who answers without listening...that is his folly and his shame"    (A very wise person)
 

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