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Topic: Speed's not technique  (Read 1922 times)

Offline piazzo23

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Speed's not technique
on: September 03, 2005, 03:01:53 AM
This is the pianistīs vocabulary section.

Technique is the arsenal of musical capabilities a pianistīs has at his/her disposal. It includes dexterity, but thatīs not even close to all there is.

Iīm sick of those incoherent answers.

So when someone asks what pianist has the best technique, please donīt answer that who plays faster and cleaner.

You should consider much other things than that.

if youīre interested in raw speed thatīs other thing.

Offline jeremyjchilds

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 03:09:31 AM
Using proper techniques allow a pianist to play quickly and effortlessly, so though speed is not an actual "technique" it can be an indicator of good technique.

It is also the most accessable indicator of good technique (even to non-players) since it takes no skill to judge speed...so that is why it gets so much attention.

If you are mad because it gets so much attention...well OK... ;)



"He who answers without listening...that is his folly and his shame"    (A very wise person)

Offline stevie

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #2 on: September 03, 2005, 03:32:49 AM
speed is the only truly objectively judgably area of pianotechnique.

all piano technique is dependant upon digital dexterity, this is the only thing we can compare without getting into 'musical' territory, which is where everything becomes subjective.

plus - speed kicks ass.

Offline brewtality

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #3 on: September 03, 2005, 03:37:28 AM
speed is the only truly objectively judgably area of pianotechnique.

Um clarity? evenness? Speed does rock but its not the only indication (or even the most reliable) of technical capability. IMO technique is the tools, what you do with them is where musicality comes in, and yeah its subjective.

Offline stevie

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #4 on: September 03, 2005, 03:42:10 AM
clarity and evenness are related to raw speed.

for example, if a pianist performs a 100% accurate performance, you can be sure they COULD play it even faster, albeit with lesser accuracy.

levels of clarity and evenness are indicators of whether a pianist is past their speed-limit.

Offline brewtality

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #5 on: September 03, 2005, 03:45:46 AM
clarity and evenness are related to raw speed.

for example, if a pianist performs a 100% accurate performance, you can be sure they COULD play it even faster, albeit with lesser accuracy.

levels of clarity and evenness are indicators of whether a pianist is past their speed-limit.

Yeah I agree. They are related but I just wondered whether you considered speed the be all and end all. I know that a pianist who plays a passage faster than another with poor clarity and control doesn't necessarily have the greater technique.

Offline llamaman

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #6 on: September 03, 2005, 03:46:03 AM
What good would Czerny's technique excerciese be like without speed eh?
Ahh llamas......is there anything they can't do?

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)

Offline stevie

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #7 on: September 03, 2005, 03:48:19 AM
Yeah I agree. They are related but I just wondered whether you considered speed the be all and end all. I know that a pianist who plays a passage faster than another with poor clarity and control doesn't necessarily have the greater technique.

exactly, piano playing cant be compared to a 100m sprint, more like 110m hurdles or an obstacle course, if you get what i mean.

Offline piazzo23

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #8 on: September 03, 2005, 04:41:40 AM
If you are mad because it gets so much attention...well OK... ;)

Yes, I am... sorry  :'(
 ;D

Offline piazzo23

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #9 on: September 03, 2005, 04:43:35 AM
plus - speed kicks ass.

Thatīs true.  ;D
But musical skills and sensitivity do so too, and even more.

Offline piazzo23

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #10 on: September 03, 2005, 04:50:07 AM
What good would Czerny's technique excerciese be like without speed eh?

Is there a Czernyīs exerciseīs book that includes the word technique?
I know "School of Velocity", "Art of Dexterity".

Offline piazzo23

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #11 on: September 03, 2005, 04:58:26 AM
Thereīs a post that clearly asks
"most insanely fast octaves ever recorded!!!"

Thatīs correct. It reads fastest octaves. It does not matter musicallity and other things.

But when you ask, pianist with best technique. Youīre considering all terms of technique, including capability of expression and producing different musical tones when needed by your sensitivity.

Offline chromatickler

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Offline princessdecadence

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #13 on: September 03, 2005, 10:17:01 AM
Speed is not technique but it's part of technique.  I use to not be able to play the fast bits of a piece fast and I fear that I lack technique - which is true.
~ ~

Offline steinway43

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #14 on: September 03, 2005, 11:15:38 AM
Control is the core of the mastery of technique. The ability to not just play quickly and accurately but to nuance things in ways that move people while doing it. Control is the key.

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #15 on: September 03, 2005, 11:36:47 AM
you can teach a non-talented player how to play fast and if you say try give them some Debussy they are hopeless because it requires emotion through technique.

Offline brewtality

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #16 on: September 03, 2005, 11:48:10 AM
Thereīs a post that clearly asks
"most insanely fast octaves ever recorded!!!"

Thatīs correct. It reads fastest octaves. It does not matter musicallity and other things.

And your point is?

Control is the core of the mastery of technique. The ability to not just play quickly and accurately but to nuance things in ways that move people while doing it. Control is the key.

Being able to move people is not part of technique. It demonstrates musicality and is subjective.

you can teach a non-talented player how to play fast and if you say try give them some Debussy they are hopeless because it requires emotion through technique.

Well, a non-talented person could learn to play at a reasonably fast, but could they play as fast as Barere or Hamelin? I doubt it. There is a talent associated with technique, otherwise everybody could possess a Hamelin-esque mechanism, which is simply not the case.

I don't understand why people are bringing up emotion, this is independant of technique. Like I said earlier technique is the tools; the means by which you bring your musical ideas to fruition.

Offline piazzo23

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #17 on: September 04, 2005, 12:53:11 AM
I don't understand why people are bringing up emotion, this is independant of technique. Like I said earlier technique is the tools; the means by which you bring your musical ideas to fruition.

Because you canīt express your emotions without the correct tools. If youīre only playing clean and light, itīs never going to happen. Unless you have a very superficial emotional experience.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #18 on: September 04, 2005, 01:03:32 AM
Because you canīt express your emotions without the correct tools. If youīre only playing clean and light, itīs never going to happen. Unless you have a very superficial emotional experience.

That's not the point. The point is you can play with emotion without a good technique, as you can play without emotion with an amazing technique. It is simply independant.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #19 on: September 04, 2005, 01:04:48 AM
Control and independency is the piano technique. How fast you can keep this same control and independency is how good your technique is.

Offline brewtality

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #20 on: September 04, 2005, 01:18:06 AM
Because you canīt express your emotions without the correct tools.

You're confusing me. Obviously technique can/should be used for musical purposes but it is entirely separate from emotion.

Offline piazzo23

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #21 on: September 04, 2005, 03:01:39 AM
You're confusing me. Obviously technique can/should be used for musical purposes but it is entirely separate from emotion.

Yes, of course, emotion is musicality, and that movements which enables you to express it in the piano are techniques.

If you talk about one technique only, youīre considering it all.

After all, why do you play music. I think because of emotions.

The applied knowledge that you use in making music (physical or intelectual) is technique.

The sensitivity (musicality), is artistic and to express it you need a good technique.


I canīt think of anyone who is searching for music that wants to listen just a bunch of notes in correct timing. Thatīs not a musical technique. Whereīs the musical expression youīre looking for?

Maybe Iīm wrong, but thatīs why I play the piano, and listen to music. Emotions.

Offline stevie

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #22 on: September 04, 2005, 03:25:47 AM
i see technique as an end in itself and a thing that can be appreciated seperately from musical expression.

Offline piazzo23

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #23 on: September 04, 2005, 04:37:04 AM
i see technique as an end in itself and a thing that can be appreciated seperately from musical expression.

Itīs ok, itīs best to disagree, otherwise it would be so boring.  ;D

Offline practicingnow

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #24 on: September 04, 2005, 07:58:08 AM
I think we all know what technique means - it has nothing to do with tone, or making beautiful sound, or variety of touch, or the ability to realize your conception blah blah...

It's basically speed, accuracy, eveness, power, endurance -  the ATHLETIC part of playing the piano.

Offline jeremyjchilds

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Re: Speed's not technique
Reply #25 on: September 04, 2005, 06:26:25 PM
I think we all know what technique means - it has nothing to do with tone, or making beautiful sound, or variety of touch, or the ability to realize your conception blah blah...

It's basically speed, accuracy, eveness, power, endurance -  the ATHLETIC part of playing the piano.

I disagree with this assesment.

Technique is the way you play and practice so that you can then play with speed, accuracy, evenness....

"He who answers without listening...that is his folly and his shame"    (A very wise person)
 

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