How far can a bad instrument hinder your learning?

[allthumbs]

Out of interest, what are your thoughts on the original question? Do you have anything ontopici thoughts, or did you just feel the need have a dig? 

Greetings

I fell into a deep coma after the first couple of replies and forgot the original question. 

Seriously though, I do believe a really bad instrument will eventually hinder your progress. Maybe not right at the beginning, although a badly out of tune piano will not be good at the start.

For myself, I have a piano that I've out grown and I find that I can't do certain things without a great deal more effort. For example, I have to work hard to play anything 'cantabile' and I'm amazed at how much less an effort it is to do on a good instument! Other pieces that are at a faster tempo are easier on a good piano, not to mention that a piano with a good sound is much more inspiring to play and brings out the best in me.

Cheers

allthumbs

[steve jones]

Absolutely with you on the last point - its hardly inspiring when your instrument sounds terrible. Fortunately Iv never played another piano, so Im yet to be spoiled 

I had this terribly with guitar though. At the shop we had a couple of really nice Taylor's in, and after that Iv not been able to feel the same with any other guitar. I dont know if it was good or not! Eitherway, Im relucant to go out trying Steinway's and that, cuz I'll never want to play my old honky-tonk contraption ever again 

Maybe Leahcim will buy me a new one for my birthday, what du reckon? 

[leahcim]

Leahcim,

The only thing I found patronising was you trying to insinuate that Id exaggerated the level of my playing. I was a little offended by this, as it really isnt the case what so ever

I don't want to carry this on - ok, but go back and read what I said because I explain why I will remove the teacher reply 4 or 5 times. Since you claim never to lie, you've obviously been in a deep coma since at least reply 2, so it won't hurt

Just to make it clear, the guy who posted the other piano questions, IMO, is a guy that would benefit from the Larry Fine book. That's not you - you made that crystal clear and from that reply were quite put out. Mea culpa. There aren't many on equal terms with him, so all I can say is stop asking the questions about pianos and start giving us your input instead

IMO, the guy that asked the teacher question and gave us the initial description of his piano, isn't in a position to assess the sound of his own playing, let alone begin to lie about it - I never said he was BSing at all - I actually said I thought he had reached the conclusion, not that I had -  and he had, I thought, already said, to me, in a thread about finding a teacher that "(b)" - which was all about technique" - was what he wanted to learn. That's evidently not you. Mea culpa.

[I did give my opinion that your level given what you'd said, sounded unbelievable, and you jumped on that with ad hominen rubbish about egos and "get over its" perhaps I should have left that out, but look at it this way - if you've done something that others find amazing, why sweat it? That opinion wasn't what the thread was ever about] I'm sure if you stop taking it personally for a minute you can see that.

Hence my apology for assuming you were that guy and as you've just said, you can see why I thought it.

As for thread, I've found the thread very productive TBH, I know you've misunderstood much which has meant a lot of points repeated over and over. But look - in the thread you claim was "Destroyed" I said to answer exactly how a piano might harm devel. you'd need "specifics not generalities" and in this thread you actually gave a 1/2 decent description of your piano.

Obviously you realise, when you get a reply to a post only the words in that post or previous posts can be referred too and when you reply saying "I meant..." and completely change your description or your point, then the earlier replies can't change.
So yeah, the other thread was crap, but I say that's as much to do with what you put in the question. Rather than saying "negative" and "narrow minded" etc in other threads why didn't you just improve your question / describe the piano. Similary, you improved your question about piano buying in here too.

Oh, and please, on that note - stop the #$%#@$ pretence that you aren't posting here - you are - we both are - accept responsibility for your posts and their content and stop appealing to the gallery for adjudication of who is right "Oh great audience can thou see how I have been forsaken - It is not I that are at fault, am I? I am being attacked. He's wrong isn't he? Hello?" FFS, get a grip, man

You didn't try to stop the thread and you have asked me my age, my sex and made many ad hominen remarks about teenage girls and my ego - but I've ignored these - because behind the ex-usenet buffoon filling posts with "troll", you can probably join in a thread without all the histrionics that usenet requires. OTOH, prove me wrong there too if you like, you've done that a few times

You've taken a few things a bit too personally imo and yes, since we've been posting in the same time zone there are a lot of replies. OTOH, to address allthumbs - I wouldn't read the word association thread from beginning to end and complain about it's lack of content, number or posts, or it's inability to entertain folk who aren't joining in - it doesn't mean the thread is "wrong" does it? The rest of board has been there allthumbs, if you'd wanted to start or join in a thread.

But yeah, I would say the usefulness has ceased.

[steve jones]

Eek...

When they said hell hath no fury, I didnt realise they meant it literally!

Well, I guess this has to end somewhere, and it clearly (no matter how much I try) wont be on a good note... so bollocks!

Does anyone have a 'moony' smiley?

[leahcim]

Does anyone have a 'moony' smiley?

You want to join a cult?

I'm male BTW, if it matters. Perhaps if you think about "evetS" without concentrating on "eve" the penny will drop.

[steve jones]

sh*t, I had no idea fellas could get pmt too...

[princessdecadence]

How about perhaps drop the argument and continue it via PM or e-mail?

In answer to the original question (without reading the post inside) -

How far can a bad instrument hinder your learning?

1. If your piano isn't tune, it will interfere with your hearing which is most crucial to musician.  The piano being not perfectly tuned will probably play for example, F but a little sharp - lets say in worst cases - F#.  If you're used to playing that piano then you will start thinking F is F# and F# - even more #.  So in the end, you will start singing like a tone deaf in exams.

2. The touch of the piano is important.  If the keys are so lose that your touch is really light, your fingers won't be strong and when you're told to play another piano with a harder touch, you won't be able to play it as well.

3. A bad piano won't produce a nice sound and you'll end up not liking to play the instrument as much and therefore leads to lack of practice.  I use to dislike my old old yamaha piano which I had since I was 4 years old - I stopped taking piano lessons when I was 8, I thought I didn't like playing the piano after all, it makes SUCH a sound - like a can clangings. I didn't stop playing completely but I just wasn't so happy with the sounds I make when I practice it - twinkles become clangings. When I move to cambridge at 16, I lived in a house with an old but much more decent piano (a Bluthner grand) and I loved how it sounds so I sit on their piano for hours and start realising that I really do love it.  End up selling that old upright yamaha and I got my Yamaha C3 which my fingers are glued to.  Love it's sound that even the worst sound that I make while practicing a piece *grin* don't sound that bad.

However, having said those 3 points, it does not all depend on the instrument but I dare say it's 40%.  A talent is a talent, hardwork is hardwork but instrument plays a major role.

Just my personal opinion and hope they make sense.  My apologies if they don't.

xx

Anastasia

[steve jones]

Three great points, thanks for your contribution Princessdecadence!

I do agree with you 99.9%. I would probably tip the scale slightly more in favour of the pianist.

PS. I aplogize for my contribution to the OT garbage on this thread. In my defence, I attemtped sort it out over PM several times, yet were ignored. I do feel bad that I got drawn into this, it would probably have been better to ignore it.

In addition, you should really have a look at some of the on topic posts in this thread. There have been numerous excellent posts, expressive  many different points. All that lot aside, Im very pleased with the responses we've got to this thread.

[steve jones]

Some really interesting points being made over on this thread:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11432.0.html