I hate my new Steinway B!!!

[thalberg]

I just bought a Steinway B.   At the selection room, I had this preconceived notion these were the best pianos ever.  None was the exact piano I wanted, though, so I chose one with certain characteristics I liked--but not all the characteristics I wanted.  Now it's here and I realized I spent 60,000 dollars on a piano that's not REALLY what I want.  In fact, I rather dislike the piano now.  What do I do?  Do they have a return policy?

[Kassaa]

Lmao, you have to play a lot before you can actually buy an expensive thing like a grand.

[shasta]

I'll alleviate your pain and buy it from you for $1 (includes s/h and insurance).   

[gfiore]

T, sorry to hear it. I remember telling  you not to get it. I would return it, minus the freight costs and get the Bösendorfer CS 214 that I told you to get in the first place. I knew this was going to happen.

[gkatele]

get the Bösendorfer CS 214 that I told you to get in the first place.

Or the Mason BB.....

(wishing you luck.....)


George

[Bob]

I don't know your level, but I would find someone (or hire them) who plays professionally and have them pick out the piano or give me their advice.  Someone who can tell a lot more about the nuances of different quality instruments, knows about selecting a piano, and can tell a lot more about the potential playability of lots of new instruments than I can.

I would find someone like that and have them try your piano.  If it's good, keep it.  If it's bad, return or sell it.  At least you know now about that particular piano.  It may be that your playing is adjusting to a new instrument and things feel funky for awhile.  That's why I would get an expert (sorry, you may be.  I don't know you very well).  

It's going to hold it's value though.  Your not going to lose out big time financially.

[gfiore]

 Thalberg, is a professional. He just took a job at the college level  teaching piano. He selected this B at the factory selection room. He has tried M&H, but did'nt care for them.

[quantum]

Mabe it needs some regulation and tweaking by a good tech.  It does however take some time to get used to one. 

If you really don't want it.... I'll offer $2.  s/h included of course.  I even pay cash. 

[dinosaurtales]

OW!  Thalberg, you are making me relive one of my worst fears when I was shopping for my piano!  I am lucky that I am pleased with mine.

BUT....  now that you own the thing, (and how bad can it really be? it's a Steinway B!)
it's time to make them own up to the pitch I got when I was shopping.  I played lots of B's and just didn't see what I was looking for, but the sales guys assured me, no , they PROMISED me that after a couple of months of break-in playing the technician could "make it be anything you want"

I'd call them on that big line, frankly, and get them to recommend a tech who can work miracles! 

I am confident you'll make it right one way or the other! 

Fingers crossed and good vibes coming your way,
Mindy

[Axtremus]

Sigh... is a bit of "buyer's remorse" within the first week of ownership that unusual?

Think of it another way... have you stumble upon another piano that came even closer than your current Steinway B as having the most of the characteristics you wanted? Is it possible that a piano that has ALL the characteristics you wanted simply do not exist? If you go out an do another round of shopping, revisit all the dealers you have visited before in the next two weeks... how likely do you think you'll find a piano you like even better? Perhaps that piano really is the "closest to ideal" you can get unless you want to keep shopping for some indefinite period of time until you find the ideal one?

Thalberg, I didn't say it at the time when I read that you went to the factory to select from a total of FIVE Steinway B's (I read that after you have made your selection)... but I thought the better place to do the selection would be in NYC Steinway Hall -- close to a dozen to choose from, and I thought the preparation of the pianos there were quite good overall. I don't know if it's a possibility, but if you really must get another piano, perhaps you can select another one from Steinway Hall, do an exchange and not suffer any financial loss?

In any case, good luck, either to make the piano into what you want or get one that is what you want.

[pianistimo]

if it's too stiff, play on it a lot. 

[iumonito]

Oh, Thalberg, my friend.  I am sorry.  Try to return it and go back to the drawing board.

If they won't take it, sell it.  You will still have enough money to buy two nice pianos.

[sklebil]

Why don't you sell it to violinist ? He'd posted a picture of his new Steinway B, so maybe he would like to get a brother for his little pet?
No really, if you don't like it - get rid of it and buy a different one. How about a nice Petrof?
PS Oh, and concerning buying things we don't like - we all do it....

[paris]

I just bought a Steinway B.   At the selection room, I had this preconceived notion these were the best pianos ever.  None was the exact piano I wanted, though, so I chose one with certain characteristics I liked--but not all the characteristics I wanted.  Now it's here and I realized I spent 60,000 dollars on a piano that's not REALLY what I want.  In fact, I rather dislike the piano now.  What do I do?  Do they have a return policy?

you can give it to me if you don't like it 

[thalberg]

Thanks, everyone.  Most of you were nice, but for those of you who laughed, please understand I went to the Steinway factory six days after I moved into a new house, in a new state, with a new job, with no furniture, appliances, or anything, and I didn't know a single person within a thousand miles.  I was not myself--my life was unstable.  Otherwise, I wouldn't have made that mistake.

For now I think I will have the technician come and try to make it what I want.  If he absolutely cannot do it, I will have to return it.  I'll be out the money for shipping and the trip to NY, I think......I'm not sure if they'd want anything more than that.  But 2 or 3 grand isn't as bad a loss as 60 grand.

Here's exactly what happened......

There were 5 pianos.  Two had weak, weak sound and they were eliminated right away.  I couldn't believe they were even there. 

One had nice sound and even power throughout all registers.  But the action was so heavy that I worried I'd get tendonitis.
 
Out of the remaining two, I chose one with action that was VERY light.  I didn't want such light action, but I remembered hearing that it's easy to make light action heavier--so I figured that could be changed.  (See--I was already overlooking stuff)

What drew me to this piano was the bass--it had incredible power--more than any other 7-foot I've ever played.  The bass stood head and shoulders above the others in the room.

But on that day and to my ears, the treble wasn't that strong.  I wanted more.  So I said to the technician, "I like this one but the treble is weak."  He said he could fix it in ten minutes.  I asked if this was really a good idea, and he assured me it was.  Ten minutes later, the treble was bigger, but it was obnoxious.  So he took the edge off it.  So then I selected it---idiot me.  He assured me he'd continue work on it after I left.  (Another mistake--I bought a piano before I liked how it sounded......ugh...)

When it arrived, it was so voiced-up it almost blew the roof off my house.  It was intolerable.  So I had the dealer voice it down (I HATE voicing new pianos, which is part of why I'm mad).  But he voiced it down unevenly, so now the sound is uneven.

The action hasn't been fixed yet.....the sound is uneven.....Shouldn't an insanely expensive piano just be perfect???

Also, question for all you technicians----if my piano is weaker toward the treble, will it always be that way?  Are weaknesses in certain ranges signs of structural flaws?  If so, this piano should go back........

[pianistimo]

wow.  you sound like a very perceptive guy and knows what he wants.  obviously, for that much money, you should get what you want.  did they ever ask you to come and try it out (to see if the treble was to your satisfaction?) 

i went to cunningham pianos the other day, and played on a petrov for the first time in my life.  thought i LOVE steinways, the petrov was really like a fine fine sherry or something.  i didn't want to get off the bench.  there was a 'meltedness' to it.  a sort of melodious blending of registers up and down.

changing the subject  something my teacher made me aware of was a buzzing bass.  you can hear it on loose pianos (to easy to play).  you hear a sort of vibration that sounds like a buzz if you hit the note from too high.  the closer you are to the note (basically on top of it), the less it will occur.  but, you have to find a piano that you can give a little space to (between finger and key) and will not buzz right away. 

[iumonito]

Thalberg, dear, if they will take it and you lose 2 grand in the process, I would say go ahead.

The voicing can be adjusted.  You seem to have a lousy technician working with you.  Voicing is an artform and you need an artist to do it.  Where are you?  I know such an artist in my area (DC suburbs) that I can recommend him should you wish.

Now, your question about the weak treble...IMO, by design, Steinway B cannot be made to sound present without harshness.  You can get more sound, but it will not be the type of sustaining sound you find in say a well-preped Bluthner or a Bechstein.  I know you have been recommended to get a Bosendorfer, which in my opinion is bland across the whole spectrum (beautiful, but limited in color spectrum).  For your home, that may be a good match.  Do you play lots of Prokofiev?

In your position, I would take the $58,000 and look for a 215 August Forster or a Mason BB (you have said you did not like them.  If all you have heard is a Faust Harrison preped Mason I can assure you those pianos are much better than that).  You will save a lot of money too.

In case you care to know and don't, I have an Irmler 222 and love it.  It does everything you ask.  In price it is comparable to a Baldwin SF10 or Yamaha C7, but a much better piano, IMO.  If this did not exist, I would probably have a KG7 Kawai or something like that.

Good luck.

[alzado]

I'm really not knowledgeable enough to help the poster.

One quotation from this gentleman's post struck me as hard to understand . . .

He writes, "if my piano is weaker toward the treble, will it always be that way?"

I hate to state the obvious, but almost all pianos are weaker toward the treble, if you mean they generate less volume of sound -- note for note, or chord for chord -- in the treble.

That's why in many pieces you need to lighten up your left hand.

------------------------------------------

This whole post reminds me just a bit of a curious posting of several months ago.  A woman had bought a very expensive piano and insisted there was a buzz in one or more of the notes. 

She had had a number of visits from technicians, and even contact with the manufacturer, about this buzz.

Some of the technicians even questioned whether there was any buzz.

The woman had spent a great deal of money on the piano, and seemed to be having a panic that "maybe" it had some serious problems.

Isn't this "buyer's remorse?"   I think we are seeing this here. 

If the gentleman had bought the Bosendorfer, he perhaps would be equally distressed, but for some other "fault."

I'm sorry if I am being unfair.

I do hope this is resolved satisfactorily for Thalberg.

Perhaps continuing visits by the technician will solve the problem, or mitigate it.

Good luck!  I mean that.

[stzorfas]

I agree with Iumonito.  I would consider an August Forster 215.  I have this piano and
love it.  You would still come out ahead financially even if you return the Steinway B as the cost
is around $40,000.00- just something to consider. Play an August Forster 215 if you haven't yet.
These pianos are extremely well prepped when they arrive from the factory.  Nothing more needs
to be done.  The pianos are extremely well regulated.  The bass is incredible.  The treble is bright
and a bit thin ( my only criticism of this piano).

[mamma2my3sons]

As someone else mentioned, sounds like it may be buyers remorse.  You have many stressors & major life changes going on in your life right now.

While $60 K is a huge amount of jack to drop, realize that no matter how expensive the piano is, it is still comprised of wood & moving parts. It is unrealistic to expect it to be "perfect"! As you continue to play it, it changes, just as it does as its settling in to its new environment.

I went from an old spinet to a new 5'9" K & C grand last fall. Miniscule in price compared to your Steinway I know but soon after I felt almost panic stricken & wanted to return it. I came to realize that I was actually really just experiencing buyers remorse & magnifying the pianos imperfections.  I calmed down, had a tech go over it thoroughly & now I've come to enjoy it more & more.

I'd wait abit then call the tech in again. I think once your piano settles a bit & you begin to play it in, you will remember once again exactly why you chose the Steinway B in the first place. . ..

Congrats on your new piano.

[thalberg]

Thanks everyone.  I appreciate all your perspectives and I will consider your advice--once I perhaps get rid of this piano.

The tech came over last night and worked on it for hours.  I like the action better, and the middle has more resonance, but the treble is just trash.  I do not like this piano and I think I never will.

When I went to Steinway, the factory was on vacation and no piano sounded that good.  But I made myself choose one because I was starting a new college job and had NO piano and no time to return.  I just think I really rushed into this.

I actually was extremely underwhelmed with all the pianos in the selection room.  I'm getting rid of this piano if at all possible, but I'm not a hundred percent sure I want to go for this again.  I may consider some of the brands you all mentioned.  I don't know.  It makes me mad Steinways are so variable in quality.

[quantum]

I remember when I got my Yamaha C3.  I had continually searching for and playing grands for the previous 10 years for the one I liked, and I kept going back to the C3.  I too would have loved a model B, but don't have the money.  But when it came time to buy it happend so fast.  Within a week it was sitting in my house. 

I was so used to playing Kawais because that's what they have at the university.  Scriabin sounds awsome on the Kawai EX 9 foot.  But then I play Scriabin on this C3 and is sounds all mushy.  The piano has a thick rounded bass, but the trebble just didn't have enough colour - or so I thought.  A year leater, and I have discoverd many more aspects of the piano and how to get it to make the sounds I want - it was that experience that I was lacking.  I've also discovered this is an amazing Brahms piano, you can get that wonderful dark honey-like tone. 

As others have suggested, shop around for other techs.  And give your piano a chance, Steinways aren't really known for out-of-the-box playability.  Don't be in the same rush to get rid of this piano or you may regret it even more.  By all means continue to shop around for a better piano, but try to get to know your model B a bit more. 

[robertp]

None of this will be news, except that it hasn't turned up so far in this thread.

Recently I was in the market for a grand. I read around, got opinions, surfed around, and then headed for the showrooms. Some I was able to rule out immediately -- while different, they had common features which I didn't care for. Some stayed in the running. I went on the principle (which I've used in my previous piano purchasing) that when the instrument felt like an extension of me, that was that. Ones that were close, met my specs, but didn't feel that way...I kept right on walking. As it so happened, The One turned out to be an AF, the last of several I played one day. I grabbed it and it's only gotten better with use. Much like the old wheeze "love is where you find it."

[iumonito]

Yep.  The beer goggles are off.  Steinway is not the piano they market it to be.  I disagree with giving this piano a second chance.  You have seen the light.

Fixing this piano is possible, but absurdly expensive.  You can either throw more money into it or cut your loses and embrace the non-Steinway world. 

Steinway lovers say I am a trash talker about these pianos.  Let that be as it may, I have just seen too many Kawais I like better than Steinway, and Kawai is not even my favorite piano (that would be Steingraeber, which sadly is out of my price range and does not make a model at the time in my preferred size anyway, second favorite Bluthner, then Bechstein and Mason, alas: so different!).

Where are you teaching, BTW?

[thalberg]

I'm teaching in South Carolina--I don't want to get too specific in front of thousands of unknown viewers.  It's a small college - I really like my colleagues and the school is growing.   

[gkatele]

I spent from 1972 to 1988 in one place. I got to know the people, and it was early in my carreer. It will always be home to me. In 1989 I went to a new job with

1) More vacation
2) More money
3) Less commuting.

The transition was difficult, at best. Not only for me, but also for my wife and family. Nevertheless, it was, at the time, the right thing to do. You've not been there long, and the "home" feeling is not there, and the people with whom you work are still strangers. You're sorting out who's your friend, who's not to be trusted (I've been in academia - I know!), and who'd fun and not.

Be patient - give it at LEAST a year. It will take that long to forge friendships and alliances. These are exciting times for you - take advantage of them. Listen to colleagues and family.

Most importantly, listen to the clock - take the time. After a while, listen to your heart.


George

Oh, yeah, listen to your piano too!

[violinist]

Why don't you sell it to violinist ? He'd posted a picture of his new Steinway B, so maybe he would like to get a brother for his little pet?
No really, if you don't like it - get rid of it and buy a different one. How about a nice Petrof?
PS Oh, and concerning buying things we don't like - we all do it....

I saw this post!!! Thanks for thinking about me.

I do plan to get another great piano eventually.  One is enough for me now and I still have my electronic yamaha P-200.

I do love my Steinway B.  I've been playing over 6 hours per day each weekend day I don't work.

It sounds a lot better with the lid up and the stand down.  That's how I tried the B's in the stores in California and New York.  When I had it in my home, I left the lid down and found it to be a completely different expectation.  But alas... when the lid was lifted.. I found the same piano I chose.

It's changing a lot in tone and character for me as I play it.

I'm by no means a great pianist.  But I will be.

[violinist]

Thalberg,

I wish you the best of luck getting the piano of your dreams.  Keep looking.  I had serious buyer's remorse when I bought my violin (hint, it was more than a steinway B).  But I bought it several years back while I was making $30,000 a year.  I even thought about exchanging it or returning it.  But now I love it.  There's something about buyer's remorse.  I even thought the salesmen somehow forced me or fooled me into buying it.  Now I can't imagine where I'd be without my violin. 

I am very happy with my steinway B.  I had a slight bit of buyer's remorse after I got it, I kept thinking about the Bosie's I liked as well.  I'm over it now.  It took about 3 weeks.

But all that being said,  I think your troubles with your Steinway B is more than just buyer's remorse. 

Good luck. 

Let me know if you would like me to ask my steinway dealer (at Sherman Clay) about your situation, or any other questions you want to pass along.

[thalberg]

Yes, the dealer thought I had buyer's remorse, too.

The remorse comes from the fact that 60 grand should get me a piano I love.  I do not love this, so it feels like I really overspent. 

I'd pay the same 60 grand for this one piano I played when I was 22.  It was a rebuilt Steinway from 1908.  There would be no buyer's remorse there.

Anyway, I'll be calling the dealer tomorrow to arrange a pickup.  I don't know if I even want to go back to NY--I didn't like any of the pianos in the selection room  Why should I waste my time?

Problem:  I'm in a small city where one store has all the good technicians.  If I don't buy from them now, I'll make them mad, then who will work on my piano?  They're great people who want to help their customers, and I WANT to buy from them.  But they don't carry Masons, and I think that's what I might want to try next.  (Gfiore, I actually do like Masons--I think we misunderstood each other at some point....sorry)

[gfiore]

 Thalberg, please read my reply on your post to the Piano Facts Forum. It might help you.

[thalberg]

Okay, thanks.

[serge1paris]

Hello Thalberg,

I went though the process of buying the best piano I could find last year and ended buying a 1981 Hambourg Steinway B.

I think I understand quite well what is happening to you and it is not only buyer's remorse.

For starters, your piano has been voiced up then voiced down... and you rightly HATE voicing too much new pianos.


Second you have a new home with no furniture and you are not used to these acoustics...


If it is not too late...I suggest you stop listening to the usual and well known Steinway bashers before making bigger mistakes.

What you need is not finding the best piano ( you have already selected it), what you need if finding the best tech able to repair all the previous erratic handlings.

You probably need to work your room acoustics too.


And last, you must learn to love your piano. Love and hate are very close feelings and can easily have the same object.


Keep us posted.


Serge

[gfiore]

 Serge, the only problem with your advice is, if he gets another tech other than the dealer's tech to work on the voicing issues, Steinway will have a reason to void the piano's warranty. The dealer's tech can only do so much to satisfy a customer, even if the piano has some really apparent construction issues, which knowing NY Steinway, it probably does. The Hamburg piano is a totally different animal from the NY counterpart with regards to construction and quality control.

[thalberg]

Thanks, Serge.  Yes, there are so many Steinway bashers.  But I'm acquainted with so many professional musicians who love Steinways. 

At this point, I've set things in motion to return it.  There was actually another piano in the selection room that day I liked a lot better, but didn't buy it because the action was too heavy.  None of them were really perfect.  I want perfection for this amount of money.  If anyone insists that perfection isn't possible, then fine, I'll buy a 20,000 dollar piano and then I'll be at peace if it's not perfect.  But for now, it's going back. 

[serge1paris]

next

[serge1paris]

Hello again Thalberg,

I understand the money problem is just too painful for you at this stage in your life. You are a young man and I  agree 60 000 is a lot of cash. Steinway model B looked expensive to me at the time I was shopping but after a few months  I just don't think any more about it.

I would like to suggest your point about perfection is rather naive. There is not such thing as a perfect piano. It can be perfect a few minutes after an excellent tuning like mine was last time it was tuned. But perfection doesn't last and a piano is a fragile instrument. A new piano need stabilization. A good tech can help a lot...

Your point about weak treble surprises me as Model B has  tremendous projection with the treble. But I agree with you that we are more easily impressed by bass than treble. Sometimes treble seems weak when you play... but is not when you listen ! The up and down voicings you have been requesting just made a mess and your piano needs now a top tech to put everything together.

Personnally, I like action on the heavy side and this can be regulated.

I am afraid 60 000 is just too much at this moment in your life and you really would feel more confident  buying a cheaper piano.  Why don't you buy with the possibility to upgrade later to Steinway in good financial conditions? This will save you a lot of money because I am quite sure you will want this Model B again in the near future.

All the best

Serge

A used or rebuilt B is another option around 40 000.

[classicarts]

My advice would be don't ever finance a piano.

If you paid to fly to N.Y. to buy a new Steinway, and found the piano you like, go back the next day and play the same piano again.

Stay away from pressure sales 

Don't feel compelled to buy just because you flew to N.Y. and your in a Steinway Hall.

Go to a piano store/hall expecting not to buy.

Most of all, if your not comfortable or have any doubts with the purchase, back out on a deal.

If I was thalberg, I wouldn't of even wasted my time knowning there was only 5 selections of "B's."

Don't ever make a decision on a same day or on a first day.

Have pen and paper and write a report of a particular piano you chose, and spend some time to consumed and contrast.

Finally, my friend you need to go back to piano 101.

OMG! So sad.   Owning a Steinway suppose to be once in a lifetime wonderful experience.

[classicarts]

Thalberg, it sure will be nice if you have an update for us.

[thalberg]

Yes, sorry. 

The dealer agreed to take the piano back.  I don't want to piano shop anymore right now because I'm too busy, so I'm just going to buy a 5 foot Boston to play until my life settles down.  Then, who knows what I'll buy or what I'll do.

[Floristan]

Well, that was certainly anticlimactic.     Good luck, man.

[Axtremus]

thalberg,

I am just glad that you have found a resolution that you can be at peace with, even if it's only a temporary one.

Certainly take your time to recoup, and then restart anew when you become ready again.

Good luck.

[classicarts]

thalberg,

I am just glad that you have found a resolution that you can be at peace with, even if it's only a temporary one.

Certainly take your time to recoup, and then restart anew when you become ready again.

Good luck.

Axtremus, you sound like Thalberg went to war or a battle , my friend.  Now, you see when I tell you shopping for a piano can be stressful?? And even the experienced pianist makes mistakes buying a piano??  In my post, you sounded so contrary to what I said, and what you have said to Thalberg..  Go figure.   I don't think I can get an honest answers or comments  from you, so why bother even talking to you. 

[classicarts]

Well, that was certainly anticlimactic.     Good luck, man.

It sure was, Floristan.  What would of happened if he would of been stuck with a Ugly Steinway.   

[iumonito]

Axtremus, you sound like Thalberg went to war or a battle , my friend.  Now, you see when I tell you shopping for a piano can be stressful?? And even the experienced pianist makes mistakes buying a piano??  In my post, you sounded so contrary to what I said, and what you have said to Thalberg..  Go figure.   I don't think I can get an honest answers or comments  from you, so why bother even talking to you. 

Classicart, chill out.  Thalberg here did go through a trauma and got, IMO, intelligent resolution out of it.  You yourself recently switched pianos after an ugly crisis about what you got.  I have consistently found Ax's opinions quite sensible (even if at times we disagree) and entirely honest.  If you don't like the answer you get, maybe you are not listening but to what you want to hear.

Cheers,
H

[classicarts]

Classicart, chill out.  Thalberg here did go through a trauma and got, IMO, intelligent resolution out of it.  You yourself recently switched pianos after an ugly crisis about what you got.  I have consistently found Ax's opinions quite sensible (even if at times we disagree) and entirely honest.  If you don't like the answer you get, maybe you are not listening but to what you want to hear.

Cheers,
H

iumonito, I got Axtremus cornered, and you have to come in here.   looool.

[gfiore]

 classicarts, could you rephrase your last statement. "I got him Axtremus cornered".  I take it grammar was'nt your major forte in school.

[buddy]

You have just moved and have an empty house and new surroundings.  Are you sure you are not just unhappy in general and blaming it on the steinway? 

[thalberg]

Yes, I'm sure.  I'm extremely unhappy in general, so you're correct about that.  But I don't like the Steinway at all.  In the factory (which I visited when I was happy) the piano had a weak treble.  But I loved the bass.  I bought the piano because the technician promised the treble was easily fixable and was no big deal.  He was wrong.  My complaints in my current unhappy state are the same as my complaints in my former happy state.

[iumonito]

Thalberg, I promise things will get better.  prepare a recital of your favorite music, that always cheers me up.

And for the piano shopping, I would say do two trips: one to New Jersey to check out the August Foesters and one to Gaithersburg, MD, to Keith and Shaun and Sam's shop to check out the Masons and the Bluthners.  Maybe you will fall in love with an Irmler 222 just like I did.  You will not have to spend $60K to get a fabulous piano (although if you want to spend them, they have goodies).

I don't know the signals for the people in NJ for the AF, but if you ask, I am sure a happy AF owner will chime in and help you make the contact.  My guys in Gaithersburg you can find here:  www.pianocraft.net.

Good luck with the teaching and the playing.

[thalberg]

thank you.....