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Topic: lack of strenght in campanella  (Read 1607 times)

Offline paris

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lack of strenght in campanella
on: September 18, 2005, 01:12:10 PM
i know there were many discussions about it, but anyway

when i'm playing through whole campanella i feel fatigue on last page. i'm talking about part wich comes after chromatic ocatve passage. instead of animato, which should be even faster, my hands become heavy and doesn't sound well.
when i play just last 3 pages, i can do it faster and realatively easily. i was wondering how to overcome fatigue when i play through whole piece.
would be good idea to play it through several times every day? usually i play it whole only once, after practising


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Offline xvimbi

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Re: lack of strenght in campanella
Reply #1 on: September 18, 2005, 02:44:55 PM
Well, you probably know my stance... Anyway, I would guess that you are "simply" accumulating tension along the way, and you run out of steam in the end. I would suggest to carefully go through the piece and all its technical challenges and the required motion patterns to find those spots where you get tense (the trills, for example, or the octaves, the constant movements to the high notes, etc.). I would not try to overcome these issues by building up and using more strength. Economy is more important than brute force. Good luck!

Offline stevie

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Re: lack of strenght in campanella
Reply #2 on: September 18, 2005, 02:51:09 PM
although xvimbi, wouldnt you say that economy AND brute force would be even better?

sometimes its a matter of sheer stamina, once a day practice the most physically demanding part, repeated, till exhaustion.
of course also practice it other ways, but economy, relaxation AND stamina would seem like the best way to me.

Offline xvimbi

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Re: lack of strenght in campanella
Reply #3 on: September 18, 2005, 03:05:23 PM
although xvimbi, wouldnt you say that economy AND brute force would be even better?

sometimes its a matter of sheer stamina, once a day practice the most physically demanding part, repeated, till exhaustion.
of course also practice it other ways, but economy, relaxation AND stamina would seem like the best way to me.

It would of course be great to have all of that. What I'm saying is that one should first make sure that there is no unnecessary tension (co-contraction) and stretches, because trying to overcome those with strength can lead to injury. Avoiding tension should be the first and overriding principle. Everything else can wait until later (in fact, strength and stamina are actually being developped at the same time without paying too much extra attention).

Offline thierry13

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Re: lack of strenght in campanella
Reply #4 on: September 23, 2005, 02:56:28 AM
Double the number of times each note is repeated, at maximum speed and accuracy. Works great on upgrading stamina in those parts.

Offline pita bread

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Re: lack of strenght in campanella
Reply #5 on: September 23, 2005, 04:51:55 AM
Double the number of times each note is repeated, at maximum speed and accuracy. Works great on upgrading stamina in those parts.

As absurd as that sounds, "uberizing" pieces helps you master them.

Offline etudes

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Re: lack of strenght in campanella
Reply #6 on: September 25, 2005, 07:07:40 PM
i know there were many discussions about it, but anyway

when i'm playing through whole campanella i feel fatigue on last page. i'm talking about part wich comes after chromatic ocatve passage. instead of animato, which should be even faster, my hands become heavy and doesn't sound well.
when i play just last 3 pages, i can do it faster and realatively easily. i was wondering how to overcome fatigue when i play through whole piece.
would be good idea to play it through several times every day? usually i play it whole only once, after practising
so it seems like you dont have a problem with last 3 pages (supposed to be piu mosso?)according to what you said that you can play it easily when you just play that last 3 pages
so the problem would be something before check out all stuff after repeating notes (both triplet and 32nd notes) if it cause some problem then check out trill with the melody upper voice maybe (many pianists get fatigue when try to push it faster) and then chromatic part and cadenza (i found that is quite difficult for me compare to the whole piece) so if you cant find problem yet so might be upper trills with the thumb try to use more arm waving to relax the tension if you have a small hand and come to what make me always annoying with the 32nd running with the theme in thumb so check it out all to fix the problem
or maybe it cause that you use different way to play when you play through and you play only last 3pages try to figure out which motions of hands wrist arm all elements when you play only last 3 pages and see if its the same when you play through
if you still cant find why
try to play it through every time (between each practise session)
(and for me i would run through only before i practice and let it out after i finished practice it
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Offline paris

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Re: lack of strenght in campanella
Reply #7 on: September 25, 2005, 10:08:39 PM
first of all-thanks for your responses

well, etudes, for me toughest part of it is section with repeated 32ths and trills on that page,before chromatics. very tricky one, but it doesn't causes fatigue, at least not to me. chromatics are also one of main difficulties, but as well as repeated notes don't cause fatigue. after that, comes that trill with octave while left hand plays thema. instead of fingering 4-5, i use 3-5 and i find it more effective and stabile cos 4-5 sounds rather weak. (i don't consider that like cheating)
i discovered one of the reasons which cause fatigue is part after that trill- section in 32ths while thumb's playing thema. (part right before piu mosso) on that part i stretch my hand too much and it results in getting stiff. maybe it doesn't have to be strictly legato? (i always try to play more like leggiero)

 to sum up-i think that part+piu mosso octaves causes problems. and it all results in debacle when it comes to animato last few bars. oh lucky me!  ;D
Critics! If one would be a critic, one should begin with self-criticism !
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Offline etudes

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Re: lack of strenght in campanella
Reply #8 on: September 26, 2005, 05:12:45 PM
first of all-thanks for your responses

well, etudes, for me toughest part of it is section with repeated 32ths and trills on that page,before chromatics. very tricky one, but it doesn't causes fatigue, at least not to me. chromatics are also one of main difficulties, but as well as repeated notes don't cause fatigue. after that, comes that trill with octave while left hand plays thema. instead of fingering 4-5, i use 3-5 and i find it more effective and stabile cos 4-5 sounds rather weak. (i don't consider that like cheating)
i discovered one of the reasons which cause fatigue is part after that trill- section in 32ths while thumb's playing thema. (part right before piu mosso) on that part i stretch my hand too much and it results in getting stiff. maybe it doesn't have to be strictly legato? (i always try to play more like leggiero)

 to sum up-i think that part+piu mosso octaves causes problems. and it all results in debacle when it comes to animato last few bars. oh lucky me! ;D
well. for the 32nd repeated notes i found that if you concentrate only on the thumb it would be much easier and faster (of course more clear and precise) in repeated notes try it!
i also use 3-5 (btw alice use 3545 quite strange fingering) but for the 32 running with thumb´s playing thema that is quite difficult you can do with some rhythmic variations to play it better (dont forget always think about phrasing in thumb let the rest do automatic)  the piu mosso part.... did you try yet with hand together???? try not to look at the hand while you play hand together to feel the keys you have to play
try it!
have fun!
Piano = my life
My life = piano
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