Whats the FIRST thing to teach?

[allchopin]

When i begin teaching beginner students, what should i start with?  Should i show them the parts of the piano and teach them the history of it etc. etc. or just get right down to reading and notes, etc. etc?  I want my students to know what they are playing on, but i dont want to waste their whole lesson...  

[NetherMagic]

Well my teaching style, although I have only officially taught 1 class (that is, officially), you have to see how old and how interested your student is.

If your student is young and you dunno if he/she's interested, I would:
-teach her middle C
-let her play around with the keyboard

Well iunno if your student is very young there's nothing much to teach seriously unless the student is actually mature enough to fool around (which I find rare nowadays)

If you student is teen or adult and mildly interested, I'd just do the same thing, they're not really interested in learning piano, I wouldn't really be interested in teaching them either   Except now that they're older, their brains have developed a bit more, you can teach them how to read music, and correct hand positions etc.,

Now the rare ones, if they ARE interested:
-middle C of course =]
-proper hand position (eg: no drooping wrists or tense arms etc)
-proper body position
-read music
-any other educational info that would keep them interested  

[BuyBuy]

Themost natural way to produce music is... by producing it, not reading it.

I never start teaching right away with note reading. I start developping the hearing and natural producing of music (let's not kill musical instinct by too much theory). I usually make sure first that the student understands and distinguishs the concepts of high-low pitch, loud-soft volume, and how to produce them on the piano. Then I ask them to choose a tune they know (it can be pretty much anything from Twikle twinkle to Elton John passing by Beethoven 5th) and try to play it by instinct on the keyboard. I help them think on "is the next tone higher ? how higher?" and so forth.

I start with identifying keys by their name and note reading during the 2nd or 3rd lesson.

[la_carrenio2003]

In the first lesson is a good idea to talk about the piano mechanism. After that, show the keyboard,ubicate the  notes in it. And always try that your students went home playing something, even a simple thing.

[dreamaurora]

Well, allchopin, it's always good to make your lessons more interesting. First , you have to structure your lessons well and teach them correct techniques from the very beginning. I saw many piano students taught by incompetent teachers having stiff fingers, weak tones, or even flat fingers, and they have been learning for years. This is usually the case with the teachers with the same problems themselves. Teaching techniques can be quite boring, so try to get your point across by purposely playing some pieces in poor techniques to get your point across. And of course basic sight-reading is very important too, no writing of alphabets, this will slow down the progress of sight-reading.

And oh yeah, I'm sorry to tell you this, but are you really qualified to teach ? You are self-taught now and you may not be aware of your playing deficiencies, I am afraid you may do further disservice to your students from having a proper guidance for their music educations.

[allchopin]

I think being self-taught can have an advantage over taught students.  I may not have the tecnique that everyone else has, but i can crack out any piece given an amount of time.  Someone has to pioneer the piano method by themselves!  But in actuality i think i would be able to teach- its not ALL about tecnique and such.  Half the battle is simply keeping the studensts interest....
ANyway, the flat finger thing and other related tecniques i think actually dont necessarily need to be taught.  It comes with time and expereince (as do most things).  I dont ever remember learning or working with tecnique and i play proficiently enough.

[dreamaurora]

I think you missed my point. One thing you have to know, just because you can play this piece or that piece does not you are proficient in piano. Just ask any competent piano teacher, they will say the same thing as I do. I was self-taught too ( well, sort of ) last time and when I thought I played very well and proficient, until I switched to my current teacher, whom pointed out the various deficiencies in my playing and technique and also the musical aspects. Point is, I saw many people like you, including me last time, enthusiastic about piano but impatient and impetuos in learning. You may think teaching is easy, but teaching is not only about making sure your students can play pieces and make them enjoy your lessons, its about developing their musicality and understanding of music in long term, through which this can only comes through proper learning and guidance through an experienced and competent teacher.

Seriously, I tell you all this to help you. Holding on to your own opinion and perception will carry you nowhere. You mentioned you will be going to a competition this January, do go and you will notice that the standard of playing out there is way higher than what you may think it is. And please, do get a teacher.

[allchopin]

It is easy to say that you should be professionally taught musicality, but really, isnt musicality about one's OWN interpretation, and not taht of some teacher?  Only when someone is just completely not following the dynamics and/or tempo can you tell their musicality is bad.  Whatever tecnique is required i think is whatever is necessary to play a piece. You dont need anything else.

I am a realist, and so i dont think that a teacher is absolutely vital to becoming a good player (or composer for that matter).  Maybe to become the typical textbook concert performer you would want a teacher, but one who has their own style will be more recognized.
....

[NetherMagic]

allchopin having a teacher doesn't mean you cannot develop your own style of musicality.  All those world-class performers, they all have gone through a considerable amount of time with their own piano teachers, and yet at competitions and performances they are recognized for their creativeness and innovativeness in music making.  Why?  Teaching piano and music in general isn't like teaching addition or subtraction in which there is only one way (well there might be more but you get my point), it's about guiding your students to their inner musical sense.

Of course, as you said, a teacher isn't necessarily vital, and I'm not saying you're an incompetent piano player either, but it's just that perhaps if you have stuck with a teacher instead of being self-taught you might have advanced more (depending on the teacher), or of course also possibly wouldn't have achieved as far.  However, having a teacher is always good for them to criticize our music; how could we improve ourselves without taking suggestions from others?  

Newayz I'm getting lost in my own train of thoughts, but my point is that perhaps because you have been self-taught most of the time, allchopin, that you seem to have developed a skeptical view toward being taught by teachers.  Maybe you have never encountered an actually good teacher that is willing to devote time into your playing, as my previous teacher wouldn't do nothing but criticize my playing without giving me much tips on how to actually play what she wants, but newayz being taught by someone isn't as bad as you think.  

[allchopin]

But wouldnt it be great to have someone walk up to you and ask you who your teacher is and you cant give them an answer?  Not many get to do that.  But anyway, i dont really want to spend all the $ for a teacher (this is the main reason- this is why im teaching!).  So yes, i guess i am a bit skeptical about this, but only for the sake of being the only one to do it.    And what would be stopping me from getting far?  If i constantly improve myself, cant this act like a teacher itsself?  

[ThEmUsIcMaNBJ]

I'm on Dreams side for this little argument.  I was exactly like you allchopin...  I was a self-taught cocky musician who thought he knew everything, and didn't need any stupid teacher to tell him what to do.  But let me tell you...  Once you get a teacher that all changes.  If you get a good teacher who knows what they are doing, you progress by leaps and bounds more then you regulary would.  

Think about it...  Sure, the piano has to have been learned once by someone.  It has grown over the many years it's been around and techniques have changed different ways to accomplish things.  Faster ways,  people have been developing how to learn piano the most effective way since it has been around.  You want to develop your own way.  If you get a good teacher you're learning something that took hundreds of years to evolve.  If you teach yourself, you're trying to come up with something that's already there!  You're just not taking advantage of it!

Let me tell you...  You can definately be yourself with a teacher, a good teacher.  If he/she forces you to play musically EXACTLY like he/she and makes you become an identical person he/she is a bad teacher.  They let you evolve after giving you the necassary basics, and advice and the best way to approach a piece, or place in a piece and help to get you where you need to be.  Not only that, but it's a great way to track your progress, and just a way to get someone elses opinion on your playing, at least!

I played many pieces and advanced myself to what it sounds like you are in your playing before I got a teacher.  I've now had my teacher for 4 months...  I'm progressing not only twice as fast, but I'm learning so much that I thought I already knew.  

Sure you can get far without a teacher, but just think of how much farther you can get with one.  

[nvcc]

Im in grade 8 piano right now but Im interested in teaching children and adult beginners. I have already started teaching my daughter how to play. Im teaching her how to move her hands on the keys. To sing a long with the notes so she can not only see the difference she makes on the piano but hear it as well. She knows where middle C is I havent even attmpted to teach her how to read the music as she is only 5. I have one interested adult and one interested child in learning the piano. My question is what would be a good method book for an adult to learn from? I myself am a student teacher. I am by no means professional but I need to start somewhere. Any helpful suggestions that can be thrown here? Thanks in advance!

[nvcc]

Anyone?

[dreamaurora]

Well, nvcc, I would share with you from my experience as far as I can. There are many good adult method books, Alfred and Bastien are the ones very popular in the city I'm living in. Both of them are good and provides all you need to teach them theory and practical necessary to keep the adults up and going. However, several very good teachers that I talked said that a far more effective way to teach them is to make them play carefully selected beginner repertoire , and then you teach them theory and the practical aspects through the repertoire they are playing. The minds of adults can understand musical concepts that children will take a long time to understand, hence it is my belief that method books are not exactly the best way to teach adults. However, many good teachers use method books too to teach adults; there is not one correct way to teach, it ultimately depends on the teacher and student themselves. You would need to be adaptable and versatile in order to groom your students to make the best music, be it they learn music just for hobby or seriously.  

[nvcc]

Ty very much. Im going to Ward music to buy several books for adults to learn from. From there I will go through them with her and find one that we are both comfortable with. This will be a new experience for me. Its a step in music I havent taken before. A new area. Im kind of nervous!   I must start somewhere though. Thnx for the input dream.

[NetherMagic]

dun worry nvcc, after all, the adult you're teaching, although she may be an adult, she's still a beginner after all, and compared to you you're on the top of the food chain, so unless you screw up really badly while demonstrating to her (which you shouldn't since you're gr8 after all) you should be fine

last time I had to teach some kid a year older than me, and it was eeeaaaaaaasy  

[randilea]

if teachers are such road blocks to creative musicianship why would you dream of being one allchopin?

Have your cake and eat it too?

The first thing I teach is how to navigate the keyboard.  The high and low, the 3 2 pattern in the black notes, how to find C...  

Learning some basic I, V accompaniments in f# major is really helpful too.  I let kids improvise on the black notes (pentatonic) while I doodle below and it always sounds lovely. Parents eat it up and kids get a sense of accomplishment from the sound they produce.

No history you'll bore the poor student.  Technic is so valuable I can't tell you, start right away.  You can actually injure yourself with poor hand position.  Take it from a girl who has had a couple of surgeries as a result.

Always end on a "good note"  say 2 positive statements for every 1 criticism, and be brutally honest with parents so that they can work with you to motivate students.  

good luck!

[reinvent]

Touche to Randilea - I think that is great advice.
What's the point of being a teacher if you don't have respect for what they have to offer?
I could play anything people gave me also years ago, after many hours of practice.  I thought that was all I needed - practice to learn a piece.
After taking lessons from a more experienced teacher in college, I was shocked to find out the many things I did not know.  You cannot practice what you don't know about.  If you take lessons from someone you will be doing yourself a favor that you will never regret.
  If you don't think technique is important - you need to have lessons and then decide.  If you are as good as you say you are without lessons, you will greatly increase your profiency at the piano with lessons, perhaps quicker than others.
 

[ahmedito]

Allchopin:

Some years ago, I was like you. No teacher, a bit cocky and really ignorant (in the sense that I really didnt have the slightest idea of how much was left for me to do) because without a teacher, you dont play right AND, you dont realize you dont play right. One of the most embarassing moments is when, after some years with a good teacher, you realize that you didnt know anything back then, and that everyone else that listened to you (provided they were musicians) knew how awful you played, bu you didnt have a clue. Anyways, you are free to do what you want, take or dont take lessons. But, please, PLEASE PLEAASE!!!! DONT TEACH!!!

In Mexico there are tons of teachers without the proper background. I dont care if they dont know the piano from their ass, but they harm every one of their students. Few things in music are as ugly and bad as a kid that gets to his 17th or 18th birthday, wants to become a profesional musician (since he has been playing since he was six years old with one of these incompetent teachers) only to be told by ALL profesional schools that his playing is horribly viced and irreparably flawed, not because of his fault, but because of an ignorant teacher. Ive also seen cases of tendonitis and other crippling ailments due to these ignorant adolescent "teachers" who think that just cause they can clank out Rach's C# prelude by their own, they are qualified to teach others, without realizing the damage they cause.

PLEASE!
PLEASE!
PLEASE!

Dont teach!

You are free to continue playing without proper guidance, but dont hurt others that innocently put their faith in your ability.

[allchopin]

please, PLEASE PLEAASE!!!! DONT TEACH!!!

Why the strong aversion to me teaching (especially since you don't exactly know anything about me...)?

You are free to continue playing without proper guidance, but dont hurt others that innocently put their faith in your ability.

Wow, I wish I could teach the piano as well as you jump to conclusions.

if teachers are such road blocks to creative musicianship why would you dream of being one allchopin?

I did not say that teachers stave off creative musicianship from their students.  What I said was that the student is (should be) fully responsible for the interpretation of their music.  

What's the point of being a teacher if you don't have respect for what they have to offer?

Is there a mouse in my pocket?  I don't disrespect piano teachers - in fact I am striving to become one myself, so wouldn't that be hypocritical?  I still believe that one does not need a teacher to gain skills, however.  A teacher is simply a catalyst for these skills (which just about everyone would benefit from).  
I don't plan to become a concert pianist, so a teacher in my case would be less necessary than for someone, say, who aspired to become Joe Concert Pianist.

Ahmedito, you are correct about one thing - I am ignorant.  I am ignorant of technique that I do not have, knowledge I do not have of more advanced musical concepts, and problems that will be realized in the future, probably when it is too late.  But then, why worry about the future?  I am able to teach skills that I have acquired thus far, which is why I am not teaching advanced students.

[ahmedito]

I am not jumping to conclusions, the fact that you do not have a teacher is enough to stop you from teaching.
It is with the beggining students that you should be most worried about, since anything you teach them wrong will go with them through the rest of their lives, and will become horribly dificult to stop. Please dont teach in these conditions. Ive seen it happen too many times. At least take some lessons for a couple of months before... afterwards, you may feel a bit different about teaching.
You may not have any intentions of becoming a profesional musician, but if one of your beggining students would one day want to, do you really want to be the one who stopped him? Im not worried about you, Im worried about them. An incompetent piano teacher is as bad as any bad profesional. Teacher, doctor or engineer.... if you dont do your job right, it will have consecuences to others.

[J.S.Bach]

It seems that there is a "ripple effect." Many people are beginning to realize the role as well as the limitations of piano teachers.

J.S.Bach

[ahmedito]

Basically I tell you this. As an ignorant know-it-all pubert (refering to JS Bach, not allchopin) you are welcome to do what you want, take lessons or not take lessons. You cant even tell other kids to teach themselves and that teachers are useless, theyll be stupid to believe it but they will do it. But, to have any pretention at teaching without the necesary skills is stupid and irresponsible, and you are hurting others who, not knowing enough, trust you to teach them. I have seen it happen too many times. Ive had students start lessons with me after a couple of years with one of these pseudoteachers and the results are disastrous. This is very common here in Mexico.

If you think teachers are useless, enough so as to not take classes with one, then fine: DONT TEACH. Not caring about becoming a profesional pianist is one thing. Stopping others from becoming pros is a much more serious matter. Especially if you are going to be charging for your lessons, and exhibiting yourself as a profesional teacher. This is fraud.

[Shagdac]

I agree. While I think it's great Allchopin that you have had the determination and skill to apparently learn to play on your own, to teach is yet a whole different story.
I would think it hard to teach someone, something that I never had before, or had experienced before, other than just by myself.

I can guarantee you, if you had a GOOD teacher for only a short period of time, you would see the difference it can make. No one can be 100% objectionable when it comes to listening to themselves. Have you ever given thought to getting a teacher, and seeing if possibly they tell you they can't help you, you already do everything right? Truly, I am not trying to be critical, but I was wondering if you tell your students and/or parents of, that you have never had a lesson yourself? And their reaction? Have you studied music theory in college at least?

In every area of life in which we want to excel we learn from those more experienced than ourselves. Why should piano be any different?

S

[J.S.Bach]

Ahmeditto, as a mature teacher it would be good for you first to learn and behave like one. The argument that I started is already over and your words are becoming cliches. As for this room, I just "noticed" what is going on without ever saying whether you are right or wrong. It seems that you are angry because you couldn’t say much in the previous debate to support your cause.
     I think that being so mature, by now you should have understood that I absolutely agree that majority of the students can't achieve anything by self-teaching. And if a person is not knowledgeable enough and decides to become a teacher, he will sure ruin many students that would otherwise become or not become regular performers. Just because there are already a lot of underqualified teachers, it does not mean that more should be added, although you can’t do anything about it. Nevertheless, you also can’t go around and judge people just by talking to them in a forum without knowing much about their skills and/or knowledge. Given the language that you use, how can I be sure that you are a qualified teacher yourself (I am not questioning this, just giving as an example that you can’t always judge by words. Or maybe you can)?
You are also mentioning Mexico too many times. May I ask your nationality? If you are English, is there any possible reason why would you leave England to teach in Mexico? Given their cultural heritage, I would be very surprised to ever see a Mexican virtuoso playing a German composer.

J.S.Bach

[ahmedito]

Your comments are racist and stupid. It is obvious I am Mexican, and to try to imply how I play or teach from my nationality is racist and prejudiced. I am a masters student at the Reina Sofia school. I had a lot of students in Mexico before I started my masters, always telling them that I am still studying, and checking with a qualified teacher.

I simply do not want to argue, or "debate" as you pointlessly call it your thread because it has become obvious to me that you dont know what you are talking about. But, I DO want to argue the fact that someone who has not had piano lessons with a qualified teacher wants to give lessons to others potentially hurting them. My wife had very severe tendonitis because she started violin lessons with a teacher who had never had lessons before. After many years of playing she hasnt been able to overcome the many defects he left in her. She is just a more personal example of what happens so often here. In Mexico there is a lack of good teachers, and an abundance of self taught horrible pianists who think they can teach. I do not imply that I can get to know you from a simple internet forum, but the facts are:

1) You havent had lessons, and you think teachers are useless.
2) You want to teach.

This alone is enough to make me come to the conclusion that you will seriously hurt your students and completely ruin any aspirations of a profesional carreer they might have, because its not the first time its happened, not even the millionth.... and if you were not so ignorant of all you have to learn from a teacher, you would realize this. If I cannot convince you to take lessons with a teacher, thats fine, but I repeat: Forget your vanity, if you want money wash cars or mow lawns, but PLEASE dont teach. You clearly dont realize the harm you can cause.

[J.S.Bach]

Your comments are racist and stupid. It is obvious I am Mexican, and to try to imply how I play or teach from my
nationality is racist and prejudiced.

Maybe your English is not bad, but since you are continuously using foul language, I am in doubt about your education. Before making any leaps, it would help you to find out that one of my close friends is a Mexican. He is not an artist, but rather a hospital technician. However, that does not matter. What matters is that you absolutely love to jump to conclusions about racism, just as about everything else. If you are so good at understanding, how come you think that after all that I said about teachers I am going to teach piano? My major is in biology and I can’t teach something in which I do not believe. As for me studying without a teacher, what does that matter? Did I ever bring me as an example? No. Because I am irrelevant and my topic is general.

J.S.Bach

[ahmedito]

Maybe my english is not good, its my second languaje. I am reffering to allchopin's desire to teach.

You cant get more racist than:

Due to their cultural heritage, Mexicans will never play the german classics.

You cant deny you said this. You cant deny its racist.

[J.S.Bach]

I did not say that your English is bad but rather that the words you choose to use are uneducated. As for my statement, it has been addressed before that to interpret a composer one must more or less understand him. Mexicans are very different than Germans and there is nothing racist in here. Just as a Mexican won't be able to interpret a German composer well enough, a German won't be able to perform a Mexican composition with all the required gaiety and zeal. All this can change if a Mexican growths in a classically rich environment like Germany. The same thing happened to Arrau. He was born in Chile, but was educated in Germany by Liszt's student. That's how he became a great Beethoven interpreter. Racism is equivalent with lies. If something is historically accurate, you can't classify it as racism.

J.S.Bach

[allchopin]

I'd like to just quote myself for one second:

Whats the FIRST thing to teach?

Ahh, ok, interesting.

Let's see what I DIDN'T write:

Come argue about whether or not I should be teaching based on incorrect observations!

Let's stick to the topic, shall we?

p.s.- If it helps, just pretend that I don't have any desire to teach at all, and that the post it simply hypothetical.  Which it is....  

[J.S.Bach]

allchopin
Actually you are lucky. Most teachers in this forum are not able to discuss something hypothetically and always connect everything with themselves. That's the reason that my topic created a violent battlefield. Yours still remains more or less reserved.

J.S.Bach

[BajoranD]

Just as a Mexican won't be able to interpret a German composer well enough, a German won't be able to perform a Mexican composition with all the required gaiety and zeal. All this can change if a Mexican growths in a classically rich environment like Germany. The same thing happened to Arrau. He was born in Chile, but was educated in Germany by Liszt's student. That's how he became a great Beethoven interpreter. Racism is equivalent with lies. If something is historically accurate, you can't classify it as racism.

J.S.Bach

Wow. Hate to inform all you Canadians up north of me, but you're NEVER going to be able to play the European masters well. What's that? You tell me that many of you are descendents of Europeans? Doesn't matter. After all, Mexico was chock-full of Spaniards, but they still can't play classical music. Pull out the mariachi band, by all means, but hang up the Bach. But back to you Canadians, I really can't think what it is you'll be able to play well. We Americans can't play the masters, either, of course, but at least we have jazz. Oh well. I guess you must have some sort of French-Canadian folk music, or something. Hope you can content yourselves with that. Unless, that is, you can get yourselves to Germany to study. For the rest of you? Tough luck.      

And by the way, JS, thanks for letting me know that, since I was neither raised nor taught in Europe (and Germany seems to be the specific spot for you), I can't actually play Beethoven. Whew! What a relief! I can stop practicing now!      

(Are those enough eye-rolling smile faces to let everyone know I'm being sarcastic? I'm not trying to insult anyone, even you, JS, believe it or not; I'm just trying to illustrate absurdity with absurdity.)

[J.S.Bach]

BajoranD
What do you know about Mexico that makes you such an expert? At least I have a friend who moved to USA about 10 years ago and we talk about Mexican traditions a lot. Mexicans do not identify with the Spanish and many don’t even like them. And to begin with, Spain is also very unique in its musical traditions compared to the rest of Europe. When you talk about Canada, think about Glenn Gould and Bach. Can you bring me an example of a Mexican piano virtuoso? It also does not matter much where each country originated from. Canada is very similar to European styles, while Mexico has a lot of differences, especially in musical traditions. You are trying to mix salsa and flamenco with Beethoven. Now that is an absurdity.
As for yourself, are you a performing artist? Because many people can play to themselves and actually be very satisfied with it. There is nothing wrong with that. But when you play and the whole world is going to listen to your performance, then it will be the critics, especially German, who will tell you whether your interpretation is worth something or not.
As much as science knows about genetics, it can be said, at least for now, that no matter what the nationality is, a person can always achieve anything if she gets the right education and grows up in the correct environment. If everything is provided for, the same Mexican child can achieve everything right in Mexico. But if the teacher is also a Mexican educated in Mexico with Mexican traditions, then the child is going to grow up in the exact same manner.
And Germany, yes, it is a very specific spot for me. The reasons are infinite and justified. Those who judge Germany by Hitler are themselves very ignorant. After all, I don’t judge Italy by Mussolini, and France by Napoleon. Unfortunately, the same people also judge Russia by Stalin. But lets not get political.

J.S.Bach

[Swan]

Allchopin, why is your question now only hypothetical?  Do you no longer wish to teach, or were you only thinking about the idea, or were you just bored and wanted to chat?

Either way, here's a hypothetical response to your hypothetical question.

Here's two of my favourite sites for piano teachers.

https://pianoeducation.org/

https://www.practicespot.com/

Teaching, as you may already know, isn't just about how well you play the piano.  It's about lesson planning, knowing your resources really well, understanding the different ways people learn, knowing how to communicate an idea to a specific age group, knowing how to break down a concept into elements that can be grasped logically and in stages, helpful if you know a bit of psychology, important to have an established 'bag of tricks' for all sorts of different problems that arise.

This is why it's also a good idea to have lessons yourself.  Not because it may benefit your playing, but because you can see first hand how other teachers go about doing these things.  Most teachers have taught the way they were taught themselves.  Sometimes these has given good results, sometimes not so good.

But do lots of research, gather lots of ideas.  The net is a fantastic tool.  Get really well acquainted with Google.
Check out https://www.musicroom.com/Browse/Genre.aspx?category_id=store6_arrangementgroup5_arrangement61_genre29
to get acquainted with method books.  I don't teach with methods (although I have quite a few in my library and I do use pages from a lot of different ones).  But if you've never taught before, and haven't had lessons with a teacher, then buy yourself some method books at the beginning level and read through everything.

Then teachng is all about practise!  Not piano practise, but teaching practise.

I'd suggest you keep a log/record of your lessons so you can analyse what you think worked really well, and what didn't work for that student.  

Invest in some non tuned percussion instruments to use for rhythm exercises.  Get a white board and a permanent marker, draw a couple of staffs and use this to teach note reading and writing.

Always remember to introduce a new concept to a student in at least three different ways.  Always ask questions, and get them to explain or demonstrate to you so that you know what they do and don't understand.

Have patience.  People have spoken about the damage that can be done to their playing, but more important is the emotional effect an adult instructor can have on a child.  Many on this forum have spoken about how words cannot harm.  This is so untrue - especially for children.  So choose your words carefully and be sensitive.  This is not a contradiction in being firm.  You can be both.  It's all in the delivery.

If you have specific questions/concerns/problems(hypothetical of course)post them.  Of course you won't know what these are until you begin teaching.

But first, prepare yourself, teaching is not just playing the piano well.

All the best allchopin in your hypothetical journey!

[allchopin]

Allchopin, why is your question now only hypothetical?  Do you no longer wish to teach, or were you only thinking about the idea, or were you just bored and wanted to chat?

Actually, the point of my teaching being now only hypothetical is because some people in this forum can't seem to stay on topic and address the question being asked (sheesh).  Thus, a hypothetical situation centers more on the question and not the person behind the question.

I enjoy having your advice thrown out there, and in fact, it makes me feel possibly a little more confident in that I have covered, and was prepared for, much of what you had mentioned (yes, I have taught already- it's too late!  )  And I agree with you that 90% (give or take ~1%) of teaching beginners is about everything that goes with playing the piano (delivery, visual/aural aides, keeping the attention, etc.)  But I think there is something to be said about a teacher who has not yet been taught*.  It is totally up to me how I wish to compose my lessons plan and how to utilize it.  I have not been tainted, persay, by any other teachers and their styles of teaching.  Thus, I am a 'clean slate' in that I can teach how I want to and learn as I go (if this just makes too much sense, tell me to obfuscate it a little more  ).

But back to the original question- when a student first sees the piano and has desire to play it, what is the best appreach so as not to 'scare them off', and to keep them as interested in a year (or 5 years) as they are on the first day?  Is it psychological?  (and yes, I have been through psychology, but that isn't exactly relevant with teaching piano in these stages).

*I say that I have never had a teacher, but that isn't true.  I was taught for about three months at an early age by a local piano teacher.  In all practicality though, I may as well have not been taught at all.

[ahmedito]

allchopin:

Its obvious that I have very strong feelings on the matter of an unprepared pianist teaching, because I assure that I have quite a lot of experience with the harm some people can do. I admit I dont know if this is your particular case. I do not expect to change your mind, but I simply could not let it go without expressing my feelings on the subject.

What you want to teach first is really very dependant on the age of your students. I advise that with working with children, dont try to force hand positions on them (curved fingers and all that), just try to keep them relaxed. I advice you, without actually knowing you, to have a profesional pianist to sit in on some of your lessons after a month or 6 weeks. Hell be able to tell you if youre doing something TERRIBLY wrong, and give you tips on how to correct it...

[Swan]

But back to the original question- when a student first sees the piano and has desire to play it, what is the best appreach so as not to 'scare them off', and to keep them as interested

Kids like to DO, not listen either to advice or demonstrations etc.  So get them DOING!  Get THEM to write down their homeword, get THEM to do any markings on their score.  (And let them use different coloured pens/pencils).  Let them choose as much as you can (while staying firmly in control of all important matters).  And most of all, make sure they themselves are seeing the progress.  People take piano lessons because they want to be able to play the piano!!   So make sure that THAT's what they're achieving. Don't bog them down with technical exercises, theory they don't HAVE to know for that particular piece, history that irrelevant, how the piano works if that's irrelevant.  Keep it focused.  

If they're having trouble with sight reading, work on this not just by making them do it!  But with coming up with games to help them establish a solid foundation first and then can apply this to sight reading.

Your approach should be enthusiastic, friendly, but letting them know your clear boundaries/rules that you want them to abide by.  

If they're getting bored with a particulr piece, introduce another one, play a particular musical game.

Make sure lessons are predictable routine.

Allchopin, what are you teaching at the moment?  (Male/female/age/repertoire/methods).

It always helps to talk in specifics.

Enjoy your teaching.  That's a great thing you can do for your students.  If they know you enjoy it, it makes a huge difference in THEIR attitude.

[allchopin]

I just finished a month or so of instructing two little girls, 4 and 5.  They really seemed to like it, and I had a good time and gained a bit of experience.  I did begin to realize that when I asked them if they wanted to play or work on reading music, they always chose playing  .  But then it's gotta be perplexing to read music when you haven't yet learned your alphabet.  Here's the basic rundown on how I introduced the piano to them, as well as what I didn't:
-Key names (by letter, not #)
-accidentals (for the 5 year old only)
-hand position on the keys for home position
-playing and posture
-got a little bit into reading music, but that was rusty

Didn't get around to:
-actually bringing out a certain piece to work on for an extended period of time
-scales, time signatures, etc. (aka theory, which kids wouldn't really understand anyhow)
-definitely not sight reading

All I can think of for now.  I have a good feeling that I got them off to a fine start, and hope they will keep the interest as I did.

[Swan]

Make sure lessons are predictable routine.

Good gracious  I meant, make sure lessons ARE NOT predictable routine.   (Mmmmm, proofreading needs practise).

Allchopin, why have you 'just finished'.  Are they no longer going to take lessons with you?

I did begin to realize that when I asked them if they wanted to play or work on reading music, they always chose playing  .

It's all about 'playing' at this age.  If you introduce things as a 'game' - "Let's play a 'game'" (those words are so exciting to kids of 4/5 and even older!) you will get their full atttention.  Even reading skills can and should be introduced this way.  "Let's meet middle C.  This is what he looks like.  Can you draw middle C?"
"YEP!"  and away they go!

I have been through psychology, but that isn't exactly relevant with teaching piano in these stages

Psychology is VERY important at this stage when attention spans are short, understanding isn't complete, self disciplin and control haven't been mastered.  It's so important to be able to 'think' like a 4/5 year old and know how to 'manipulate' their energy and focus and interest and actions.

Have a look at this method Allchopin and see what you think.  It's designed for this age group and is very colourful and 'fun'.  It tells a story while teaching note reading and a little theory.

https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_fastresults.html?cart=1290353156

You'll see there's quite a few books, and there are even toys the kids can buy.  Pins/stickers all sorts of things for the teacher to give as prizes.  Yes, it's a merchandising dream, but things like this really do work for this age group.  

Tell me what you think.  

[kulahola]

Definitely showing how this big machine works.
Black and white.
Bears and birds.
Pedal on and off.
Hammers and strings.

The first lesson is the only "fun" the kid will have for a long time ! it tells a lot also about the actual kid s reactions and ability to develop.

[allchopin]

Allchopin, why have you 'just finished'.  Are they no longer going to take lessons with you?

Nope- they had to go away to their dad's for the rest of the season.  I wonder if they'll keep it up...

Psychology is VERY important at this stage when attention spans are short, understanding isn't complete, self disciplin and control haven't been mastered.

Not judging from the class that I took... maybe advanced psychology, or behavioral child psychology or something more specialized.
Your link didn't work (I think because you had added it to your cart, and I cannot access your cart)
But don't worry about it, I may not be teaching littlun's in a while, or ever again (not many at college )

kula:
Why should the fun end with the first lesson?  Or are the quotes meant to imply work?...

[kulahola]

kula:
Why should the fun end with the first lesson?  Or are the quotes meant to imply work?...

because after the show the work has to start and i am totally against "fun" in lessons. I am a traditional piano teacher.

[Swan]

advanced psychology, or behavioral child psychology or Your link didn't work (I think because you had added it to your cart, and I cannot access your cart)
..

Mmmm, bummer.  Nope, nothing in my cart.  I'll have to check links in future.  (I wonder how many others haven't worked  )

So no more teaching at all?  

[allchopin]

I'm not necessarily done teaching- I may be able to weasel some free time during school.  Then there's always the summers in between.

i am totally against "fun" in lessons.  I am a traditional piano teacher.

Does being a traditional piano teacher have anything to do with having to be a bore during lessons?  Why can't a 'traditional' teacher invigorate a student so as to spark interest for further independent study?  

[kulahola]

I'm not necessarily done teaching- I may be able to weasel some free time during school.  Then there's always the summers in between.

Does being a traditional piano teacher have anything to do with having to be a bore during lessons?  Why can't a 'traditional' teacher invigorate a student so as to spark interest for further independent study?  

Did i say my lessons were boring and not interesting ??
Nope. They are as exciting as the music they contain, or so I am trying at least.

[allchopin]

Did i say my lessons were boring and not interesting ??
Nope. They are as exciting as the music they contain, or so I am trying at least.

Oh, I just assumed the opposite of fun was boredom.  My mistake.  

[schmetterling]

Oh, I just assumed the opposite of fun was boredom.  My mistake.  

My teacher's lessons are invigorating, challenging - sometimes frustrating - but always exciting and evoke all manners of emotions, as music is supposed to do. They are not 'fun', but they are rewarding.

I am just a young piano student, but I have 'tutored' young children in piano, helping them between lessons. Speaking only from what I know in my limited experience, there is so much to the teaching of music. Of course keeping the students interested is important,
and to keep lessons 'fun', especially for those who want to play pure play for enjoyment, but I too believe that despite good intentions, a student taught by a unqualified teacher can lead to suffering later on. Sharing the gift of music is beautiful, but instructing wrongly is not.