Opus Clavicembalisticum - Have your say...

[ahinton]

Powell hasn't recorded the OC yet. He has performed it a few times (three times?). As it stands at this moment he will very probably record it in the not so near future. He wants to perform it at least 10 times live.

Five times, actually - one private performance at The Sorabji Archive before a small invited audience (2003) and four public ones (London, 2003, New York, 2004 and Helsinki and St. Petersburg, 2005). Whilst it is, of course, Mr Powell's prerogative to decide when he feels the time is right for him to record it, I am but one of many who believe that the sooner he arrives at that decision, the better.

It is gratifying to note just how many exchanges a mere mention of OC invites!

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

Harmony and Melody is a sequence of notes and chords that the mind can follow. Just like a V chord, the mind expects it to conclude and move to the I.

In Bachs time, the chords were simple because they only went with the most simplistic and most easy to follow chords - eg i - iv - V - i etc...

Composers over the next 200 years have been determined to stretch these chords to make them more ellaborate but still keep that sense of harmony going so that the piece sounds like it's coming to a logical conclusion.

I mean when you listen to most pieces of music, when you hear a V7 - the most logical step from there is to go to I.

It's all to do with the overtones and the vibrations of notes.

[prometheus]

I don't understand modern music in general, why can't they just compose a piece of music with a melody and a harmony in any eight tone scale. I mean it's worked for centuries and it's really simple stuff.

Can anyone? Firsly, we call them seven note scales, we don't count the octave of the first note. But really, has anyone written a piece that it totally diatonic. You realise that by your standards no one would be allowed to write music in the minor key? Even Bach used all 12 notes in one fugue subject. And he was too bland. Are you sure what you are talking about?

Harmony and Melody is a sequence of notes and chords that the mind can follow.

Lets create a hypothetical situation. My mind can follow the melodic and harmonic organisation in Sorabji. But yours can't. Then what would be wrong with Sorabji. Surely he has melody and harmony according to your definition.

In Bachs time, the chords were simple because they only went with the most simplistic and most easy to follow chords - eg i - iv - V - i etc...

In Bach's time no one cared for the roman numbers of chord progressions, except for cadences and modulations. A bit like Sorabji actually. Contrapuncalism and figured bass were much more important..
Also, Mozart's harmonies are generllay much more simple than Bach's harmonies.

Composers over the next 200 years have been determined to stretch these chords to make them more ellaborate but still keep that sense of harmony going so that the piece sounds like it's coming to a logical conclusion.

And Sorabji doesn't? Surely he is using cadences. Sorabji is stretching, not abandoning. He dislikes Schoenberg.

I mean when you listen to most pieces of music, when you hear a V7 - the most logical step from there is to go to I.

Of course Sorabji knew this.

It's all to do with the overtones and the vibrations of notes.

That's why I like Sorabji.

I seem to be slowly seeing a theme here. Mr. Perfect Pitch was once a music student. But he didn't have what it takes. So he was dropped. And now he blames people like Sorabji for his failure. Thus the bitterness and hate.

[prometheus]

Perfect Pitch, since you blocked me for some reason after sending me several aggressive insulting PM's without me ever sending you any PM's:

Just read what Sorabji had to say about Schoenberg. Sorabji believed in the power of tonality. He didn't understand the need for serialism either. Sorabji descends from Bach, Reger, Busoni, Mahler and Ravel, Scriabin, Szymanowski, Liszt, Alkan, Godowsky, etc. Not from Stravinsky, Schoenberg or any of those guys. Just read his essays. He wrote many.

If you can't face the facts then I can't help you.

And as someone who thinks Bach is too bland and things chromatism is chaos, maybe you should look here: https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/wtc/i24.html#movie

Since you claim they didn't kick you out of the music program at your uni yet, there is still some hope. I suggest you take a close look because you are either very confused or you have major holes in your knowledge.

[perfect_pitch]

I did not say there was anything wrong with a little chromaticism... But Sorabji is complete chaos when it comes to chromaticism, so much that is is sheet dissonance. and I was well aware of all the Bach Preludes and Fugues and have heard them played by both hewitt and Gould, thank you very much... Thats like pointing out to someone that believe it or not... Beethoven wrote Piano Sonata... I think everyone knew that.

I remember seeing part of the sheet music once, and I have listened to parts of it....

I have gone through every methodic way of analysing the music, aurally, mentally, harmonically, looking at the *** notes on paper and there is no pattern, there is no construction.

I'm sorry, but it just seems to resemble those weirdos who go into an art gallery looking for something that isn't there. Art has gotten so obscure that we have drifted so far from melodic brilliance and sheer musical intelligence that it is now so advanced that music and art have gone so off track and can't possibly get back.

I watched a news article, where an Art Gallery in Melbourne or something bought a painting for $60,000!!! I thought to myself - must be pretty good to get a price like that... and you know the sad thing is... the actual painting is just white. There isn't a speck of colour or anything... it is just white.

Just like that painting, art and music have become so obscure and so askew that I fear that people will forget what real art is (or should I suggest 'was')... Back in the time of Michaelangelo and Da Vinci, pieces where we just look at it and it takes our breath from it's beauty.

Believe me, I am not confused or missing holes in my knowledge, I can assure you...

I just pray that music doesn't become that blank canvas worth $60,000 - because somewhere is a nutter who keeps viewing that painting trying to make it something it's not and believing that it represents something.



You know what... I'm just going to shut my mouth at this whole *** thing... I'm sorry about the whole PM message business Preomethus, and to everyone else.... i really am... I just get pissed off when real beauty doesn't get the appreciation it deserves.I won't ever say anything about Sorabji or Xvimbi (spelling???) or the whole *** lot... I won't even visit this thread again.

I'm just glad I got it off my chest.     Hope you can forgive me.

[arch0wl]

I'm sorry, but it just seems to resemble those weirdos who go into an art gallery looking for something that isn't there. Art has gotten so obscure that we have drifted so far from melodic brilliance and sheer musical intelligence that it is now so advanced that music and art have gone so off track and can't possibly get back.

I watched a news article, where an Art Gallery in Melbourne or something bought a painting for $60,000!!! I thought to myself - must be pretty good to get a price like that... and you know the sad thing is... the actual painting is just white. There isn't a speck of colour or anything... it is just white. 

While I agree with your comment about paintings, I don't think the OC is that way.

[pita bread]

I'm sorry, but it just seems to resemble those weirdos who go into an art gallery looking for something that isn't there.

Have you ever tried looking at it another way? Maybe you're just not capable of seeing what's there.

[Etude]

I think to like Sorabji, you have to actually want to like it...  If you know what I mean.  Maybe that's why PP doesn't like it. 


Like when I play it for people here, they mostly don't even give it a chance...  Put off for life... 

[lostinidlewonder]

I have gone through every methodic way of analysing the music, aurally, mentally, harmonically, looking at the *** notes on paper and there is no pattern, there is no construction.

Actually there is a lot of pattern however it is constructed on much larger chucks of sound. Sometimes 1000 notes will be needed just for one breath of sound. In that case the pattern can be extremely complicated but it is definatly there if you break the music down first into its chord sounds and melodic parts then put it all together as a whole as written.

If you manage to get your hands on the PDF which was circling around a while back somewhere you will see how much of the OC is written as variations, repeating a similar melodic line with different distortion of notes.