Opus Clavicembalisticum - Have your say...

[tompilk]

Have you own say.. see what people come up with about it...

[prometheus]

It is music with utmost quality poured into a model with relentless properties and demands for both listener and performer.

The fact that the music ignores human nature and limitations doesn't mean it is no good from an objective musical point of view.

As always, strong points can also be weak points and vice versa.

[tompilk]

I totally agree - it is a work of art and I love it - the most amazing piece I have ever heard.

[prometheus]

Have you heard the musical performanced of Powell playing either the third sonate or Toccata No.1? It is really miles beyond the attempts of Ogden and Madge on the OC. It really adds a lot to the music and the exeperience.

[tompilk]

I haven't heard this... ill have to try and get a recording from somewhere... thanks for the suggestion.

[JCarey]

Wonderful piece, terrible recordings. It's really unbelievable, but you would never know based on the "attempts of Ogden and Madge", as Prometheus puts it.

[Etude]

Indeed, it's a wonderful piece, but the only way to discover this currently is to study the score, because of the quality, or lack thereof, of the two available recordings.  Earlier today, I went through the first few of the more complex variations in the first interlude, with a highlighter marking the theme, and it amazed me how he incorporates it into the texture in every variation.   The first variation isn't so obvious, I'll admit, it took me until today (I have known the piece since December of last year) to actually work out where the theme might come into it (bottom line, rhythmically altered.)  I listened to about 15 minutes of the variations on Madge's recording shortly after, and just kept thinking, it's SUCH A SHAME this happened, that we got two absolutely horrible recordings.  It's disgusting!  They don't even BEGIN to convey the greatness of the work.  I appreciate the genius of Sorabji more than ever, after analysing a few variations.  I used to think he deviated from the theme throughout the varations, but he does manage to get the theme in there somehow, in every variation.  It's so sad, the amount of abuse the piece has received on this forum in particular, because of the "attempts of Ogden and Madge."

I haven't heard this... ill have to try and get a recording from somewhere... thanks for the suggestion.

These works are so amazing, you'll be shocked at the difference between these and the Madge OC.  Also check out some of Habermann's recordings of Sorabji's short pieces: "Legendary Works for Piano" including Fantasie Espagnole (a great piece) and the extremely beautiful Nocturne: "Gulistan".  Solomon's recording of "Le Jardin Parfumé." (the piece is also played on Habermann's recordings, but in my opinion he rushes through it, at 17 minutes while Solomon takes 26.)

And prometheus, don't you mean the fourth sonata?  The third hasn't been released yet, but there are some samples here:

Excerpt 1

Excerpt 2

[perfect_pitch]

This thread should be burned as well as the moron who started it. (No offence, but it's true).

[Ruro]

Actually I love this thread for one thing alone, everyones thoughts have certainly changed. Lots of people who hadn't even heard it used to accuse it of being "Rubbish" and so forth, and this thread seems to now prove otherwise, that generally: People do appreciate, like, if not love the piece!

Anyway, even a few tracks Madge did I quite like, especially one of the Fuga Quadruplex, but the Interludium Primum and stuff... shot to hell O_o

Let this day be remembered, worthy thread tompilk ^_^

Sorry perfect_pitch, I love your posts, but I have to disgree this time

EDIT: But... despite how much I love discussing the OC, it is beginning to wear thin on the forum O_o Big smile crossed my face when I saw this thread, lol
Oh, and yeah, I admit I made a thread about it once as well, but that was long ago in my noob days O_o I'm much wiser now

[Etude]

This thread should be burned as well as the moron who started it. (No offence, but it's true).

You're a *** idiot.  (No offence, but it's true).

[prometheus]

Yeah, I meant the fourth, obvisouly. I don't know where that mistake came from.


Surely the treatment of the themes throughout all works by Sorabji is amazing, but apperently oh so subtle. I think you need to be a composer yourself to be able to truly appreciate the skill of these works. Hearing all the subjects in the fugues is hard enough. But recognising the thematic material in the varations and passacaglia's is extremely difficult. Without the score it seems that there is a thin line between hearing and imagining you hear the thematic material.

Also, to me there is a big difference between the baroque and impressionisitic styles of Sorabji. I don't seem to care that much for the latter.

We all know Perfect Pitch hates everything that doesn't sound like Rachmaninoff, including Bach and Sorabji. Lets just ignore him.

[contrapunctus]

Well lets see.... from the passages i have heard and what I have read aobout the piece these things come to mind:

        Almost no melody
 +  nearly random bunch of hyper virtuosic notes (you cannot really call them musical)
+  the fact that the only reason why people say they like it is to make themselves feel
     special

= piece of sh*t

[Etude]

Surely the treatment of the themes throughout all works by Sorabji is amazing, but apperently oh so subtle. I think you need to be a composer yourself to be able to truly appreciate the skill of these works. Hearing all the subjects in the fugues is hard enough. But recognising the thematic material in the varations and passacaglia's is extremely difficult. Without the score it seems that there is a thin line between hearing and imagining you hear the thematic material.

I've only ever felt like I was imagining the themes in the OS, but I can see what you mean.  I think Sorabji kind of hints at the themes in places.  The passacaglia ground bass in the Toccata no. 1 is rather easy to spot in most of the variations, I think the same would be said of a good performance of OC.  It is up to the performer to bring out the themes.   I also think it's easier when you're more familiar with the themes to notice them, like the themes in OC, which I know very well now, and I know what they are when I hear them.  That's why it's so brilliant when, for example, the subject of the first fugue comes back near the end of the third fugue, or near the end of the Coda-Stretta.  You notice new recurrances of themes almost all the time in OC when you look at it closely.  The 4th Sonata, is hard to spot themes in, particularly in the first movement.  But I'm not as familiar with those themes.

Also, to me there is a big difference between the baroque and impressionisitic styles of Sorabji. I don't seem to care that much for the latter.

Yes.  Although most of the impressionistic stuff is early, before he developed his mature style, like 'In the Hothouse'.  There are impressionistic moments in his 'baroque' pieces like the Adagio from OC, or the second movement of the 4th sonata.  And there's Gulistan, which was written a decade after OC.

We all know Perfect Pitch hates everything that doesn't sound like Rachmaninoff, including Bach and Sorabji. Lets just ignore him.

Agreed.

[Etude]

Well lets see.... from the passages i have heard and what I have read aobout the piece these things come to mind:

        Almost no melody

NO MELODY!!!!!?!??

There are about 24 thematic melodies, which repeat frequently throughout the entire course of the piece.

+  nearly random bunch of hyper virtuosic notes (you cannot really call them musical)

Random?  THAT IS AN INSULT TO SORABJI!!!  If you can't see the detail that's in OC, you're not fit to be a musician.  OC is actually TONAL, if you haven't noticed by now.  Oh, that's probably because you listened to a few minutes of Madge, playing streams of random clusters, in place of the incredible detail Sorabji writes.

+  the fact that the only reason why people say they like it is to make themselves feel
     special

Who the bloody hell are you to say how other people feel about it?  Do you mind, we don't like to be told what our opinions are.

So, Nice analysis.  I hope ignorance isn't really bliss, it's more happiness than you deserve. 

[prometheus]

Apperently, in the coda-stretta of the fourth sonata there may even be up to 7 of the 23 themes of the piece in stretto. I am sure the OC coda-stretta has these insane stretto passages also.

Sure it is easier when you know the themes. I can sing along with some parts now.

For one Sorabji's coda-stretta's don't sound as cheesy and artificial as Busoni's stretta section of Fantasia Contrappuntistica. But maybe it's the tonal themes. Sorabji makes it sound natural where Busoni's stretta almost resembles 4 radios playing together.

Sorabji went to all this lenght to put the melodies everywhere, almost once every measure, and Contrapunctus doesn't hear them. What can one say...

[Ruro]

Well lets see.... from the passages i have heard and what I have read aobout the piece these things come to mind:

 Almost no melody
 + nearly random bunch of hyper virtuosic notes (you cannot really call them musical)
+ the fact that the only reason why people say they like it is to make themselves feel
 special

= piece of ***

The first time I listen to practically anything I don't appreciate it, or pick up anything in the piece to be honest O_o Hell, it took at least 5 listens of the Rach3 to finaly recognize it's greatness. To begin with listening to the OC was a chore (which is why I did it at college, have it ringing in my ears whilst working), and eventually I "Got the hang of it". To be honest, I don't fully enjoy listening to half of it because as you say, it is "nearly random bunch", especially if you listening to the Madge Meisters.

Well, someone just posted before me on your post, but hopefuly I will come off more light hearted O_o Not everyone has access to the score, which explains the random notes bit. As for everyone loving it... well, it's either a matter of time before you like it, or it's just not your cup of tea :/

Ain't this thread alive, oh wait... aren't the OC ones always like this? ^_^;;

 *Half the forum post counts belongs to the OC Topics* lol

EDIT: You know what, I'm just gonna stand to the side and admire (and amuse myself) with this thread lol, this will be a blast *Gets Popcorn*

[Etude]

Apperently, in the coda-stretta of the fourth sonata there may even be up to 7 of the 23 themes of the piece in stretto. I am sure the OC coda-stretta has these insane stretto passages also.

Indeed, from what I can tell, each of the 4th Fugue subjects run through in stretto with each other for the first 3 minutes (at the proper tempo = Madge),  Then other themes enter (like Fuga I's subject, and the motto theme (E, B, F#, A, F etc...)  I don't think there are any themes in the last two pages, or at least they're well hidden.

Sure it is easier when you know the themes. I can sing along with some parts now.

Hehe, singing along to OC.  I sometimes hum a Fugue subject to myself, when I'm waiting for something etc.

[Etude]

EDIT: You know what, I'm just gonna stand to the side and admire (and amuse myself) with this thread lol, this will be a blast *Gets Popcorn*

You know what, I might join you if we get more posts like this:

This thread should be burned as well as the moron who started it. (No offence, but it's true).

[prometheus]

I looked it up. There are four forms for each of the two subjects in th coda-stetta of th fouth sonata. At some points the piece has seven real individual voices. So that means those eight themes in stretto by seven voices. So 7 themes sounding together, at least according to the booklet written by Sorabji himself. I don't have the score.

Remember this kid called Ludo888 or something? He kept on whining about the score of this song called OC because he wanted to learn it.

Those where the good old days.

[Etude]

I looked it up. There are four forms for each of the two subjects in th coda-stetta of th fouth sonata. At some points the piece has seven real individual voices. So that means those eight themes in stretto by seven voices. So 7 themes sounding together...

Hmm.  Interesting.

I find it rather difficult to discern where the CS actually starts in the 4th sonata, since it leads directly into it from the fugue, and I don't have the score, and the Fugue and CS are on the same track.

[Etude]

Remember this kid called Ludo888 or something? He kept on whining about the score of this song called OC because he wanted to learn it.

Those where the good old days.

Ah yes, the infamous Luda888. That was before I arrived but I've read through the 4 page thread requesting the score and recording many times, along with a random visit from JPowell himself. 

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4432.0.html

good times...   


I wonder if he ever got the score/recording...

[pita bread]

Well lets see.... from the passages i have heard and what I have read aobout the piece these things come to mind:

        Almost no melody
 +  nearly random bunch of hyper virtuosic notes (you cannot really call them musical)
+  the fact that the only reason why people say they like it is to make themselves feel
     special

= piece of ***

Ironic how someone named Contrapunctus has trouble appreciating a truly contrapuntal masterpiece.

1. "Almost no melody" - Just because you do not recognize a melody does not mean there is no melody. And think about this: there are 4 Fugues in the whole piece and I'll be damned if the fugues have no melodic content.

2. "+  nearly random bunch of hyper virtuosic notes (you cannot really call them musical)" - Just because you cannot comprehend something does not make it unmusical. And who are you to determine what is music? That's like going to a modern art gallery and pointing at something and saying "That's not art" because you dislike it or don't understand it.

3. "+  the fact that the only reason why people say they like it is to make themselves feel
     special" - So where's your evidence on this one? Have you done anonymous surveys asking people why they like the Opus Clavicembalisticum? Your opinion is worthless unless you can back it up.

4. "= piece of ***" -

Highly unconstructive posts (not just from this topic)
+ unsupported opinions stated as facts
+ lack of respect towards others

= You, Contrapunctus, are a worthless member of this forum.

[Etude]

The piano chat mods strike back.   

[JCarey]

EDIT: I really lost my cool with my last post. Let me just say this: perfect_pitch, I don't care what you think. You're merely a troll. As for contrapunctus, you are ignorant. You know nothing about this piece obviously. Therefore what you said is bullshit, plain and simple.

Now let's all get along, for God's sake.

[hodi]

i don't care how "genius" "artistic" and "brilliant" this piece is
it's NOT pleasent to my ears at all. it doesn't cause me to feel any emotions  that sorabji tried to convey there
it's totally mess up of notes that may be "mathematical" and "sophisticated"
but as long as the music isn't melodicly beautifull.. i don't see any reason listening to it!

I HATE IT.

[JCarey]

i don't care how "genius" "artistic" and "brilliant" this piece is
it's NOT pleasent to my ears at all. it doesn't cause me to feel any emotions  that sorabji tried to convey there
it's totally mess up of notes that may be "mathematical" and "sophisticated"
but as long as the music isn't melodicly beautifull.. i don't see any reason listening to it!

I HATE IT.

But you see, you've never even heard it the way it's supposed to sound. You've either heard Madge's random notes, or Ogden's sightreading. Both are terrible.

If you hear Powell's perfomance and still don't like it... then that's your opinion. But I don't think anyone should judge this piece yet, based on the recordings.

[allthumbs]

Well based on the two excerpts in a previous post that I listened to, I would have to say that I just can't get in to it. I can appreciate the pianists ability to play the piece. (I'm assuming that because there sheet music, so it's not something that is improvised.)

Anyway, I wouldn't knock anyone that found something worthwhile in listening to such a piece.

As they say 'to each his own.'

Cheers

allthumbs

[arch0wl]

I have only heard JCarey's interpretation, and when madges stabbed it for 4 hours. I cannot interpret the score that well, so I am hoping that a midi comes up so I can hear it played exactly the way the score says, albeit robotically.

[pseudopianist]

I have only heard Ogdon and Madges recordings of this piece. I feel in love with Ogdon even if he has some really odd choice of tempo (I prefer Madges Fantasia even if it contains a lot of wrong notes)

It is far from being Sorabjis best piece but I must say that I love it.

[thalbergmad]

Anything that stirs up such emotion must have its merits.

I have yet to listen to it as 4 hours is beyond my capability and to listen to it in 4 or 5 sittings, i feel may not do it justice.

However, i am beginning to warm to Sorabji's shorter works.

[bearzinthehood]

I have Powell's version of Fantasia ispanica and I like it.  I don't think I'll be listening to OC next, but I definately would like to pick up some more Sorabji if I get a chance.

[tompilk]

Welll... we have stirred up some anger!!! I hope that I haven't offended anyone by giving people a chance to argue...
I personally agree with the people who love it - I can't see how someone can support hating it, but its funny and interesting to see what people come up with in defence of hating this piece...
Hahaha...
Keep posting everyone... great thread full of good stuff 

[apion]

It's virtually unplayable . . . . . but I still love it. 

[musik_man]

I guess I'll give my two cents, hopefully in a way that won't generate any anger. 

I'll start by saying that I haven't heard the OC before, and neither has anyone here based off of what Sorabphiles say about Madge and Ogdon, so really I can't tell you whether or not I like something that I've yet to hear; however, I have heard excerpts of other works of his, the snippet of the 3rd sonata that someone posted in this thread, and a ~5 minute excerpt of the Fantasie Espagnol that Jcarey put up on Gamingforce.  In both cases I was surprised.  Simply because based off of what the OC threads look like, I expected either the greatest work I'd ever heard or some 20th century POS.  What I got was just some fairly boring stuff with lots of notes.  Nothing in terms of dissonance, compared to say Bartok or Prokovief, but nothing enthralling or captivating.  It struck me as kinda mediocre.  If the OC is 4 hours of that.... *shudders*  I can take long music (second favorite composer=Mahler), but 4 hours is tough.

Once the Powell comes out, I plan to buy it(assuming it's price isn't too bad.)  Then I can give you a real opinion on this piece.

[JCarey]

Here's a synthesized recording of the 4th movement of the OC that I made - https://www.johncareycompositions.com/fantasia.mp3

[lostinidlewonder]

Amazing music. For listening the music is so thick you could cut it with a knife. It is so multilayered, so many things to listen to, it is never the same you always have something new to listen to or focus your attention on. It really explores deep into the infinite possibilities of sound from the piano. I guess you'd expect that from 250 odd pages.

A lot of people find music like Sorabji's a whole pile of mess and it is if you don't know what you are supposed to listen to. This music requires a developed musical mind, I really think it is an aquired taste, I guess it is like vodka! A child (someone who hasn't studied music in depth) would first choke on vodka (complicated music), and recoil whenever it is offered to them for the rest of their life.

For actually playing it it is an incredible source pushing rhythmic understanding to limits, coordination(if you see the score many places it is written with arkward syncopation and enormous lightning fast leaps with no particular repeated pattern), form (hand has a huge task to make the strange shapes feel comfortable) and sound (just undertanding the sound needs a lot of effort because the same group of notes could be played in many ways, only once you have a clear undestanding of what you want to it sound like can you start to make some grounds to do it which is an even more difficult task when 1000 notes need to be played before a phrase completes itself.)

I have only memorised the first few pages, Introito (which isnt the hardest my sight reading ventures through this has walked through some ACIDICALLY difficult sections. If that even is a word, it feels like acid and burns your ears like acid, but this masochistic set up is pure pleasure to learn to control for the insane pianist mind.

Just playing the notes is not enough even though that is a huge task in itself. Once you master the notes there is a Mount Everest of interpertation. You must sense every single note you play which when played in strange places to create stranger sound take a strange amount of time unless you yourself have a strange mind! It takes multiple listenings of Madge's recordings before you understand what is trying to be done you can only imagine how much longer it will take you to do it yoruself and make a stance on what you want to do.

[pita bread]

The Opus Clavicembalisticum is a work of intellectual depth that Bach could not have dreamed of. It is the ultimate baroque complexity made possible by romantic keyboard technique.

Lostinidlewonder has a point saying that "Sorabji's a whole pile of mess and it is if you don't know what you are supposed to listen to," and I don't blame anyone for not being able to take it in on the first sip. It's so rich and thick I don't think you could sip it.

So I propose that someone with the capabilities should try to orchestrate sections of this work, possibly on midi or some other virtual instrument. The different tone colors of the orchestra may make it easier for people to follow and understand the music. I never understood Scriabin's late sonatas until I heard an orchestration of Sonata #9 Black Mass- after that, I knew what to listen for in his music and now Scriabin's final five are among my favorite piano works. Maybe it will be the same for some people and Sorabji.

[prometheus]

There are three versions of the OC. The original for solo piano. One for orchestra and one for orchestra, piano and organ. If I remember correctly.

[pseudopianist]

There are three versions of the OC. The original for solo piano. One for orchestra and one for orchestra, piano and organ. If I remember correctly.

Not the same work but they almost have the same name

[JCarey]

So I propose that someone with the capabilities should try to orchestrate sections of this work, possibly on midi or some other virtual instrument. The different tone colors of the orchestra may make it easier for people to follow and understand the music. I never understood Scriabin's late sonatas until I heard an orchestration of Sonata #9 Black Mass- after that, I knew what to listen for in his music and now Scriabin's final five are among my favorite piano works. Maybe it will be the same for some people and Sorabji.

I've been working on orchestrating the Intoito, though that is the least dense movement of the entire piece. I'll post what I've done so far, today, if possible.

[perfect_pitch]

Here's a synthesized recording of the 4th movement of the OC that I made - https://www.johncareycompositions.com/fantasia.mp3

Sorry, but that was so bad, I couldn't listen to all of it... I heard about a minute... and bits throughout and sorry but that was disgusting... i don't know how anyone can listen to that crap.....

And once again the only reason this f***ing thread has been created is because those idiots that somehow (god only knows how, but could probably be because of drugs) like this crap love to brag about how this piece is apparently fantastic and to tell anyone who doesn't appreciate it to f*** off!!!! I'm sorry, but the only reason this thread was created is to antagonise people like me and hodi and others.

Bugger off and stop writing about your bloody precious Opus clav-icantbebotheredtorememberhowthehellyouspellthelastpart... You imagine if every single person on this *** forum posted a new thread about their favourite piece.

We all know that the stuff it weird but weirdos still listen to it....  WE KNOW THAT!!! SO STOP BLOODY REMINDING US ETUDE!!!! and listen to something else.

And if anyone feels offended by what I say... TomPlik asked for our say on the matter...

This is my say...

[prometheus]

Haha... You are so [...].

JCarey, sound great. I heard a few hick-ups. Could be my quicktime player, but I am not sure, no time to relisten it right now. I am going to compare it to the two recordings later. Should be insightful.

As for the orchestration, what instruments are you using?

[pseudopianist]

Perfect_Pitch: I can understand that you don't like this music at all but calling the people like it idiots is pretty low. I'm an idiot because I like these exotic harmonies that explores all of the notes and not just the ones in the key?

[prometheus]

The irony is, if it can even be called as such, that he thinks J.S. Bach is too bland.

It seems he is just narrow minded. That flaw would be acceptable, though certainly not commendable. But it seems he is a irrational bigot too.

Someone opened this topic, for reasons irrelevant. And he thinks this topic is not about Sorabji, but about him, the arrogance... It is just that we want to attack him. And he hates that. Is this still legible? If he hates these topics so much and if they are all about him, then why doesn't he just ignore them. The topic would die very fast and surely no new attampt to bait Mr. Perfect_Pitch would be made.

Another disrespectful move is that he makes this insolent and delusional attack, and then draws TomPlik to his side. What make him think he would agree with him? Now, if you read back what Tompilk really wrote, the opinions he voiced all oppose Perfect Pitch's ones. The only thing he said that he was interested in arguments made in defence of hating the piece. Now I wonder how much irony there actually were in those words...

One thing makes me wonder, how can Perfect Pitch be so personally provoked by people talking or liking Sorabji? One would expect a trauma of emotional damage of some kind considering the behavoir. But in this case that doesn't make any sense.

[Kassaa]

I haven't heard the piece and I'm not going to have an opinion before I've heard it from someone who doesn't play random notes.

[Etude]

Sorry, but that was so bad, I couldn't listen to all of it... I heard about a minute... and bits throughout and sorry but that was disgusting... i don't know how anyone can listen to that crap.....

And once again the only reason this f***ing thread has been created is because those idiots that somehow (god only knows how, but could probably be because of drugs) like this crap love to brag about how this piece is apparently fantastic and to tell anyone who doesn't appreciate it to f*** off!!!! I'm sorry, but the only reason this thread was created is to antagonise people like me and hodi and others.

Bugger off and stop writing about your bloody precious Opus clav-icantbebotheredtorememberhowthehellyouspellthelastpart... You imagine if every single person on this *** forum posted a new thread about their favourite piece.

We all know that the stuff it weird but weirdos still listen to it....  WE KNOW THAT!!! SO STOP BLOODY REMINDING US ETUDE!!!! and listen to something else.

And if anyone feels offended by what I say... TomPlik asked for our say on the matter...

This is my say...

Sorabji isn't for everyone, he seems a sort of composer you either love or you hate for most people.  I respect your opinion on the piece, and I'm sorry you couldn't enjoy it.



This is what I would have said if your post wasn't a load of absolute ***, "I don't like this piece at all, I can't listen to it" would have sufficed, but NO, you have to take it further, and not only FACTUALLY STATE that the piece is disgusting, but actually DENOUNCE OTHER MEMBERS who enjoy listening to Sorabji.  You are an absolute *** moron. 


Have a nice day,


Etude.

[Etude]

I've been working on orchestrating the Intoito, though that is the least dense movement of the entire piece. I'll post what I've done so far, today, if possible.

Haha, nice.  I started that once.  Then didn't continue.  Maybe another time.   

[Etude]

There are three versions of the OC. The original for solo piano. One for orchestra and one for orchestra, piano and organ. If I remember correctly.

Yes, I think they are different pieces.  There are three with SIMILAR names:

Opus Clavicembalisticum
Opus Clavisymphonicum
Opusculum Clavisymphonicum (vel claviorchestrale)

[Etude]

It's virtually unplayable . . . . . but I still love it. 

A lot of it isn't as hard as it's made out to be.  There are some easy(ish) parts like the first few minutes of Fuga I, and some managable parts, like Introito, but there are also ridiculously difficult parts like the Toccata and the Cadenza I, so the whole piece is raised to the difficulty level of the hardest part. 

[Etude]

The irony is, if it can even be called as such, that he thinks J.S. Bach is too bland.

It seems he is just narrow minded. That flaw would be acceptable, though certainly not commendable. But it seems he is a irrational bigot too.

Someone opened this topic, for reasons irrelevant. And he thinks this topic is not about Sorabji, but about him, the arrogance... It is just that we want to attack him. And he hates that. Is this still legible? If he hates these topics so much and if they are all about him, then why doesn't he just ignore them. The topic would die very fast and surely no new attampt to bait Mr. Perfect_Pitch would be made.

Another disrespectful move is that he makes this insolent and delusional attack, and then draws TomPlik to his side. What make him think he would agree with him? Now, if you read back what Tompilk really wrote, the opinions he voiced all oppose Perfect Pitch's ones. The only thing he said that he was interested in arguments made in defence of hating the piece. Now I wonder how much irony there actually were in those words...

One thing makes me wonder, how can Perfect Pitch be so personally provoked by people talking or liking Sorabji? One would expect a trauma of emotional damage of some kind considering the behavoir. But in this case that doesn't make any sense.

 

Well he clearly thinks any opinion other than his own is sh*t.  Why is he still posting in this thread?  He's expressed his thoughts on the piece more than is desirable, and obviously doesn't want to discuss it anymore, other than insulting the piece, the composer, and those who like it. 

I haven't heard the piece and I'm not going to have an opinion before I've heard it from someone who doesn't play random notes.

A very good decision.